texaspackerbacker
10 years ago
This happens every off-season. Some superstar that any team could use - with baggage in this case, maybe without, other years/other cases. Ted never signs them, case closed. If it's true we are that much under the cap, I'd seriously consider Suh. He is a lot more than just a big run stopper. I would think he could be coached out of the attitude thing. As the title of the thread says, Green Bay is the best team for Suh - a strong chance to win it all; a probable good place to keep out of trouble - although (correct me if I'm wrong) Suh has not been an off-field troublemaker. I know I don't need to say it again, but I will anyway: NO WAY for any price to signing Raji.
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sschind
10 years ago

Money is not a factor, we have the cap space to sign them all if they wanted to. If Ted and Mike would determine he was worth the risk, I would have no problem with him coming.

With Him at one DE and Daniels at the other, Peppers on the edge Raji or whoever at NT wouldn't have to face double that often.

Originally Posted by: PackFanWithTwins 



According to a lot of people Suh will command about 20 mil in cap space this year. If we have 30 mil like you said that leaves 10 mill to sign rookies and Cobb and Bulaga, and Williams (or House)... or anyone else.

I'm not sure he will get that much but the thing with so many FA contracts is not the cap hit in the first year its the subsequent years that cause the problems. Many players will take less in salary the first year because they are getting the big SB check. that means the cap hit in the first year is often quite a bit less than in the years that follow when the real salaries start hitting the books and the the SB continues.

Very few teams interested in Suh can say they would have no problems with the cap. Just how much of a problem and how willing any team is to figure it out remains to be seen. There is no doubt Suh would make any defense better. Whether a team wants to take a chance on his reputation or can realistically fit him under their cap is another.

The Packers could do the cap but it would likely cost them one of their priorities. Another thing is Ted doesn't usually spend right up to the cap limit. He likes to have some reserve so even if we have 30 mil its likely he would save around 2 mil of that at least.
sschind
10 years ago
I said on another site that most packers fans (actually I said 99%) would welcome Suh with open arms if Ted were to sign him and another poster went off on me. He said no way would he want Suh on the team under any circumstances and lots of other fans don't either. I told him my point wasn't that you don't want him but rather if he was signed most fans would at the very least accept him (the only other choice would be to stop rooting for the Packers while he was here) and a great many would welcome him.

I don't care for the guy but if he comes here I will root for him to win defensive player of the year (hell maybe even MVP.) It was the same with Randy Moss. I didn't want him but if he would have come I would not have wished for him to fail like I did with whatever team he went to.

Its easy to be all self righteous when you will never have to worry about backing it up.

My issue with signing him has more to do with how much it would cost. Contrary to some peoples opinion I don't think we could sign him without sacrificing someone else and to be honest I rather have those someone elses.
rabidgopher04
10 years ago
Wasn't Charles Woodson known as a bad apple before he went to Green Bay? Anyway, with Julius Peppers around, Suh would stay in line. The Packers D would instantly become top 5 with CMIII, Peppers, and Suh all on the same unit. Write his contract so that he gets big bonuses if he stays out of trouble.
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Mucky Tundra
10 years ago
Funny, I was thinking a few weeks ago how well Suh would fit in here and how good he would be for our defense. Fun to think of the possibilities but has a snowballs chance in hell of happening due to $$$.
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texaspackerbacker
10 years ago
I agree with you, Sschind, about the open arms thing. I disagree with you, however, about the cap hit. First of all, $20 million a season would be up there or more than Aaron Rodgers or other top QBs, actually almost double. That seems pretty far-fetched to me. Secondly, using bonuses and backloading, you can give a guy way more than the cap hit. As I have said, I think Ted doesn't make nearly enough use of that sort of thing. I haven't made up my mind whether I'm for or against getting Suh at a fair market price. A bargain might be nice, but it really ain't gonna happen.
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PackFanWithTwins
10 years ago
One thing the Packers have been good with is being able to structure salaries. If we were to go after and get Suh, because of his history, I would expect his salary to not be at the level JJ got. But even that Watt was under 5million Cap hit this last year though he does jump up to 21 for 2015. And if they would make this move, it is done to win not the next SB, but the next TWO or three. We have our core signed, Rodgers, Nelson, Cobb (soon), Matthews, Shields, Williams (likely soon) Lacy, Peppers. We don't really have any of that core with contracts expiring the next two seasons, Sitton is probably next after 2016.

I think Peppers could have a tremendous positive impact on Suh. So you do this as a long term commitment not a short term rental, give Suh a deal for at least 5 years with 15M SB, and two years worth of somewhat minimal Salary keeping his cap number around 5 million than with a guaranteed Roster Bonus in 2017 that will boost his cap number, because that is about when Rodgers and Matthew will probably be restructuring their deals so some space will be cleared at that time. Perhaps throw in some potential guarantees for years 4 and on if he keeps his nose clean.

If we were to go after a Dlineman, would you want it to be Suh, or Ngata?
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Cheesey
10 years ago

I am not sure it is possible to have good D without attitude. The great ones all seem to have it.

Originally Posted by: QCHuskerFan 



"Attitude" is great, when its done within the rules. Cheap shots, trying to end someone's career is not "attitude", it's being a punk. I have no respect for someone that does that kind of crap.
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texaspackerbacker
10 years ago

One thing the Packers have been good with is being able to structure salaries. If we were to go after and get Suh, because of his history, I would expect his salary to not be at the level JJ got. But even that Watt was under 5million Cap hit this last year though he does jump up to 21 for 2015. And if they would make this move, it is done to win not the next SB, but the next TWO or three. We have our core signed, Rodgers, Nelson, Cobb (soon), Matthews, Shields, Williams (likely soon) Lacy, Peppers. We don't really have any of that core with contracts expiring the next two seasons, Sitton is probably next after 2016.

I think Peppers could have a tremendous positive impact on Suh. So you do this as a long term commitment not a short term rental, give Suh a deal for at least 5 years with 15M SB, and two years worth of somewhat minimal Salary keeping his cap number around 5 million than with a guaranteed Roster Bonus in 2017 that will boost his cap number, because that is about when Rodgers and Matthew will probably be restructuring their deals so some space will be cleared at that time. Perhaps throw in some potential guarantees for years 4 and on if he keeps his nose clean.

If we were to go after a Dlineman, would you want it to be Suh, or Ngata?

Originally Posted by: PackFanWithTwins 



Are you kidding? Slam Dunk Sure, Suh!


Expressing the Good Normal Views of Good Normal Americans.
If Anything I Say Smacks of Extremism, Please Tell Me EXACTLY What.
sschind
10 years ago

I agree with you, Sschind, about the open arms thing. I disagree with you, however, about the cap hit. First of all, $20 million a season would be up there or more than Aaron Rodgers or other top QBs, actually almost double. That seems pretty far-fetched to me. Secondly, using bonuses and backloading, you can give a guy way more than the cap hit. As I have said, I think Ted doesn't make nearly enough use of that sort of thing. I haven't made up my mind whether I'm for or against getting Suh at a fair market price. A bargain might be nice, but it really ain't gonna happen.

Originally Posted by: texaspackerbacker 



Suh is going to get a lot of money guaranteed so that means 5 years of a relatively high pro rated signing bonus cap hit every year. I'd say 6 million per year (assuming 30 million guaranteed which I don't think is out of the question) You are right though, a cap hit of 20 million is probably out of line, I mean that's what he is at now and its why the Lions are in the position theya re with him. It is not inconceivable that a team could bring him in for a relatively cap friendly 2015 because, as I have said before, a lot of high priced free agents sign for small first year salaries because thy get that big bonus check right away. This makes their first year cap hit much smaller than subsequent years when they start making real salaries as well as the bonus hit. They sign him for 2-3 million salary this year and his cap hit is 8 or 9 million. He most likely will make a lot more next year salary wise.

I for one am glad Ted doesn't use large bonuses because that's why we ended up with Peppers this year. I think the Bears would have loved to keep him but his cap hit was 18 million dollars and they couldn't afford that. They cut him and still ended up counting a ton of money against the cap. Back loading contracts along with large bonuses is doubly dangerous because you know the team is going to cut the guy rather than pay him the 20 million his contract calls for in the last two years of his deal so now you have to pay 2 years worth of accelerated SB because you gave him 25 million guaranteed over 5 years but you cut him after 3. You lose 10 million against the cap. Peppers cap hit for 2016 is actually less than it will be for 2015.

If you want your team to go for broke this year then yeah, you could work out a way to get a guy like Suh and he wouldn't cost and arm and a leg (not even a stomped on leg) for one year but next year and the years after its is going to hurt.
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