The secondary, I'm worried· Page 2

buckeyepackfan
Veteran Member

10 years ago

Guys I need some words because I'm very worried about the secondary.

Who is in my opinion our best cover CB (House) is injured and it seems to be serious enough.
Shields is playing really bad, what's wrong with him? He is being too Shields, he doesn't cover, just floats around and hopes to get to the ball based on his speed but is not working.

Burnett is playing LB, Ha Ha has some goods and lows and I've never liked Hayward.

On the good side Hyde is a smart player and I like how we are using him and Tramon is having a good season.

Please tell me we'll be ok.

Originally Posted by: luigis

The Packers will be OK!!!!!
[grin1]

15 games, 16 weeks into the season, we all have seen quite a bit of improvement on The D's side as the year has gone by.

At this point, They are what they are!!!!

I was addicted to The Hokey Pokey, but I turned myself around!

Porforis
Veteran Member

10 years ago

#12

Davon House? I think fans think he's Al Harris and just don't actually watch the guy lol

Casey Hayward is one of the top 10 rated cornerbacks on ProFootballFocus.com

8.4 Hayward with 386 snaps
-0.1 House with 411 snaps

Hayward 3 INT's with only 2 passes defensed and gave up 2 touchdowns
House 1 INT but has team leading 8 passes defensed and gave up 3 touchdowns

Sam Shields is a -5.1 but his speed is why I'd rather him on Calvin Johnson.

Originally Posted by: Zero2Cool

Shields is the best man available VS Calvin. But they need to double or tripleteam him all game. It doesn't matter if Shields can keep up with Calvin with the sort of height difference you're dealing with.

PackFanWithTwins
Veteran Member

10 years ago

#13

Originally Posted by: Zero2Cool

Sometimes the problem with stats like this is, the cannot really be used to compare the two. Hayward is almost solely playing the slot, House almost solely plays the edge. If Hayward was put in the same coverage and situations as House, he would likely perform worse than House. And the same goes the opposite, House isn't the best playing slot coverage.

We will likely do what we have done in the past to control Calvin. High/Low coverage.

The world needs ditch diggers too Danny!!!

luigis
Member Topic Starter

10 years ago

#14

Wait why is our best cover CB a back-up? Does the CB not know what he's doing? Should the CB be fired? ... or could if be House isn't the best CB?

Originally Posted by: beast

House is in my very humble opinion the most natural CB in the team, he has height and he goes step by step along the receiver. Shields and Tramon are probably better but they have a very different style covering. Tramon is a jammer and a route cutter. Shields is Shields, it's hard to describe but he is never next to his man, he is always some yards ahead peaking at the backfield and confident he can run faster than the pass if needed.

I find it interesting you don't like Hayward but like Hyde, when I've kind of seen them as almost the same player. Yes Hayward has better coverage instincts and speed, while Hyde has been attacking instincts and is more physical. But in a lot of ways they're the same skills that both have.
Also why haven't you like Hayward?

Originally Posted by: beast

I agree with you Hayward and Hyde are very similar but I think Hyde is smarter and knows what he can or can't do. Perhaps is the coaching and not the player but I have the feeling Hyde knows his role better than Hayward.

Now about why I don't like Hayward. This is a personal opinion only I've said it before. I think Hayward plays soft, I think he doesn't like tackling. And don't ask me why but I have the feeling Hayward has bad chemistry with the rest of the secondary. In my crazy mind #2 makes sense due to #1.

Yeah... none of the Packers CBs can keep up with Megatron step by step one on one. At least when he's healthy.

Originally Posted by: beast

Another big problem is that neither HaHa nor Burnett have CB skills to help cover an elite receiver.

Luis

luigis
Member Topic Starter

10 years ago

#15

Originally Posted by: PackFanWithTwins

I agree and I also have twins :)

The fact that Hayward can't play the edge is one of the things that I don't like about him. A CB must be able to play the edge and the slot, you can be better at one or the other but you have to be able to play both if needed. Shields and Tramon can play the slot, House can probably do it too but I can't see Hayward on the edge, no way.

Luis

sschind
Senior Member

10 years ago

#16

Keep in mind that Tony Romo has never won a playoff game. Not to mention the Packers beat them last year with Matt Flynn as their starting QB. I know none of that hardly matters, but I'm really not worried about Dallas.

I'd be more worried about Atlanta than I would about Dallas.

Originally Posted by: blueleopard

It doesn't "hardly matter" it doesn't matter at all and Romo has won a playoff game.

luigis
Member Topic Starter

10 years ago

#17

It doesn't "hardly matter" it doesn't matter at all and Romo has won a playoff game.

Originally Posted by: sschind

If we defeat the Lions it is likely to be Dallas coming to Green Bay after blowing the kittens at Dallas in the wildcard.

If we lose against the Lions then it is likely we go to Dallas for the wildcard game.

So sooner or later we'll have to play Dallas and the secondary worries me.

Luis

Zero2Cool
Elite Member

10 years ago

#18

I don't think Megatron takes ratings into consideration.
House is the only CB with the size and physical skill to go step by step with Megatron.

Shields is too fast, and that's a problem because he is used to playing 5-10 yards away from his mark just because he knows he can get to the ball in time. He also peaks into the backfield a lot.

I hope you are righ!

Originally Posted by: luigis

I have a great source that tells me Calvin Johnson views the ratings and if higher than his, cannot sleep well the night before. True story!!

You're right, ratings are squat and as someone else pointed out Hayward plays slot more than the outside. However, I think the slot is more difficult to cover because your target has both directions, wheres on the outside you have the sideline to help wall off options.

If the Packers said they are going to match Davon House on Calvin Johnson, I would panic big time. House, in my opinion, is very over rated among fans. I tried to buy into the hype, I just can't.

If we're gonna say we need to match up the more physical cornerback based on size and strength, Jarrett Bush is the tallest and heaviest. I do not want that. lol

Thinking more into this ... Micah Hyde would probably the one I'd want to jam at the line and then have Tramon Williams cover the backend. That leaves Sam Shields one on one with Golden Tate.

luigis
Member Topic Starter

10 years ago

#19

Originally Posted by: Zero2Cool

I prefer Tramon over Shields too for Megatron, Tramon is "more evil" he will probably get burned and outjumped as much as Shields but he might grab some misstimed pass or cut some repeated route for a big play. Tramon and Hyde are the smartest combination we have and Shields can go along with Tate's speed. We agree 100% on that.

About House: I don't think he is great or better than Tramon or Shields, but I think he is our best option to cover receivers like Megatron. If you put House on the edge and just let him be he will probably be a liability. Now if you put House on a WR and just ask him not to let him touch the ball then he will probably do a good job.

Another good thing about House is that he is more physical, he grabs, pushes, hits, collides, touches, etc... after 3 quarters being covered by House the WR is tired, after 3 quarters being "watched" by Shields you are as new as when the game started.

Luis

DoddPower
Veteran Member

10 years ago

#20

If the Packers said they are going to match Davon House on Calvin Johnson, I would panic big time. House, in my opinion, is very over rated among fans. I tried to buy into the hype, I just can't.

Originally Posted by: Zero2Cool

But House isn't as overrated as Sam Shields. I think the majority of Packers fans think House is a good #3-4 cornerback who can match up against certain wide receivers well. Especially with safety help. But many Packers fans seem to think Sam Shields as a very good to great cornerback, and he just hasn't been this season, imo. He's fast, but also soft and sometimes appears to be going through the motions.

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