And do you honestly think the are not coaching how to properly tackle or communicate? You think McCarthy doesn't teach proper pad level? Even though there are constant pad level issues through every season.

Originally Posted by: PackFanWithTwins 

Just because they are "coaching" something or going through the motions does not mean they are doing it well. Teaching is an art. I have a good bit of experience teaching and it's very difficult. I could be in front of a class reviewing geometry all I want, but if I'm not connecting with the students in a meaningful way, I'm not being effective. Dom Capers and company coach all aspects of defense, I'm sure. But there are signs that he has not been doing it as good as he could or should have.

Originally Posted by: DoddPower 

The same signs McCarthy hasn't been doing a good job either.

This is not teaching geometry, and this is not coaching some high school team. These are grown men who have been playing the game for most of their lives. They know how to properly tackle, they know how to have the proper pad level and the proper technique. When they stray or get lazy on technique, the coaches point it out and help them correct. Seldom does the same player, week after week make the same mistakes, and if they do, they don't stay on the team long. That is what makes good coaching, and that is what we have both offensively and defensively.

Originally Posted by: PackFanWithTwins 

I will have to disagree here.

These athletes have excelled at whatever they have done their whole life. They didn't need to know "proper techniques" in HS when they were so much better than the other guys on the field. If they took the wrong angle, they simply run the other player down anyway. If they had poor pad level they could still make the tackle because they were stronger. If they went for the big splash tackle by hitting the guy as hard as they could without wrapping up, the offensive player went down. College saw more of the same even in the power conferences. They went up against enough "average" players week end and week out to not have to commit to the best techniques on a consistent basis.

Just look at the OL. How many draft picks have to work on improving their footwork after getting to the pros? How many OL and DL players have to work on pad level? It was never important until they got the the NFL were every single player is an outstanding athlete. Where everyone is strong and "fast" It usual takes them years to learn the proper techniques because the players have never felt the need to work hard at developing those skills until the NFL.

That is what makes someone like Kuhn so appealing to the average fan. He works his butt off. He is not the most gifted player but he has worked at improving all the little nuances that a player needs. If we sat in the training room with the coaches Kuhn would probably grade out very high every single week.

Originally Posted by: wpr 

I started sports when I was young. I started Wrestling when I was in Kindergarten. Every year as I became more advanced in the sport, less time was spent on basic technique and fundamentals, and more on using those engrained skills and tactics and strategy. Where even today, some 30 years later, those basic fundamentals are natural.

I was small in high school, so I never was a football star. But the starters still had to have good technique in order to beat me because I had great leverage and technique from my wrestling background. If they didn't use proper technique, I would beat them. that is what it is like for these guys through college. They may be more physically talented, but the difference is not that great. They are facing other players every day that are playing in college for a reason. Those on 2nd string, will beat a starter if the starter doesn't use good technique.

And especially today in the NFL, thanks to the collective bargaining agreement where padded practices are so more limited, and number of players on the team is so limited they cannot drill like we did growing up in High School. Coaching to them is reminding them of the basic techniques when they get sloppy.

I watched Tramon and AJ and Clay with good technique. They are coached by the exact same guys as the players who had mental lapses on their technique.

Originally Posted by: PackFanWithTwins 

If you want to think that the players who make it to the NFL or any other professional sport is only a little more talented than the rest of the high school and even college players they face go ahead.

In addition I was not implying that no technique or fundamentals were ever stressed.

Originally Posted by: wpr 

This is not teaching geometry, and this is not coaching some high school team. These are grown men who have been playing the game for most of their lives. They know how to properly tackle, they know how to have the proper pad level and the proper technique. When they stray or get lazy on technique, the coaches point it out and help them correct. Seldom does the same player, week after week make the same mistakes, and if they do, they don't stay on the team long. That is what makes good coaching, and that is what we have both offensively and defensively.

Originally Posted by: PackFanWithTwins 

Teaching is teaching. Coaching is teaching. Even if it's minute details or reminders. It's still teaching. Critiquing what a player does good, bad, right, or wrong. The same principles apply. Coaches pointing things out to a player to correct them is teaching. In order to be successful at the NFL level, most players have to do everything almost perfectly. Most NFL players know how to play football. Absolutely. But they do not necessarily know how to or have enough discipline to do everything as close to perfect as possible in every situation, against every player, when completely fatigued, injured, and in a hostile crowd. The same basic principles of teaching and coaching at any level apply, it's just much more magnified and at a different level. It's all relative.

Originally Posted by: DoddPower 

There is a difference between teaching somebody something they don't know. And reminding them of what they do know. At the pro level, a coach is not going to teach a player how to tackle, or how to block. They watch for the lapses in form or concentration and correct them, and remind them to use the fundamentals they already know.

It is kind of idiotic to think that coaches at this level, are unable to coach "Teach". Like the players, they got to the level they are at for reasons, they know what they are doing, and are good at it.

The same players that fans shout about missing tackles one week, are the same players making those plays another. The coaching didn't change, only the execution.

Originally Posted by: PackFanWithTwins 

NFL players are not all experts at their trade. At least relative to the rest of the league. Especially at the speed of the NFL and considering completely new and infinitely complex systems and techniques. Aaron Rodgers knew how to "throw" coming into the league, but changed his mechanics quite a bit with the assistance of his coaches. Many of these guys are 22-25 years old. The vast majority have a lot to learn. NFL coaches should absolutely know how to coach and teach. That's not the point at all. The point is, some do it much better than others and get much better results. That's the heart of the discussion with Dom Capers. He can be OK at times, historically bad at other times. Some Packers fans feel there may be someone out there that could do a better job. Some do not. That's just the way it is, but it's certainly a valid debate. Of course Dom Capers can "coach" and "teach" NFL players. But does he give the Green Bay Packers the best chance at having an elite defense? For the most part, I think he's pretty average. His units have some great games, but they also have a lot of bad ones. If Dom Capers doesn't have an extremely talented defense such as the Packers in 2010, his units seem to be pretty average overall, and sometimes worse. Hopefully the second half of the 2014 season and the playoffs will completely change that. Packers fans would love to have a great playoff defense again.

Originally Posted by: DoddPower