steveishere
10 years ago

He had a nice turnout for his pro day and had scouts buzzing with the time he turned in.

Donald Driver was also in the same category as a 7th round WR and he turned out okay. Did teams think he wasn't very good or were they just unsure because he went to Alcorn State? Same for Marques Colston from Hofstra. Shoot, Shannon Sharpe is one of the greatest TE's of all time... 7th round. Did the Broncos think he couldn't play? Same for a guy like Julius Thomas now? Did we think Brandon Bostick couldn't play because we didn't draft him?

You are implying that every 7th rounder and UDFA there has ever been teams didn't think they were good players? There is a reason a guy is in the league. Some team somewhere thought they were good. Janis had several teams call him (I believe you may have posted the video clip) and wanted him as a UDFA.

We must not think any of our UDFA or 7th round guys are any good. Year after year UDFA's and 7th rounders make impact for the Green Bay Packers. Sam Shields and Tramon Williams. We must not have thought they were any good...we just got lucky that they turned into our starting CB tandem.

Originally Posted by: uffda udfa 



We didn't think they are very good, that's why we didn't draft them before the 7th round. We thought they were better than the rest of the guys available but that doesn't mean we thought they would end up being great players. I'm not saying late round players are never good or cannot be good I'm saying NFL teams obviously don't think very highly of those guys or they would have drafted them sooner. Very few 7th round or later players work out because very few of them are actually good. List the ones that worked out all you want, then list all the ones that didn't and see which list is longer.

I'm not buying the small school player thing either. Plenty of small school guys get drafted earlier than the 7th. Heck a small school guy got drafted a round before Charles Johnson in his same draft class. Brian Quick was a 2nd rounder, a guy got drafted in the 3rd or 4th this last year. Teams will take a small school guy early if they think he's worth it.
Zero2Cool
10 years ago

We didn't think they are very good, that's why we didn't draft them before the 7th round. We thought they were better than the rest of the guys available but that doesn't mean we thought they would end up being great players.

Originally Posted by: steveishere 



If you knew others weren't going to draft said player until the later rounds, why would you grab him in an earlier round? Would you offer someone $15,000 for a pre-owned car when you know the sales price is $10,000?

I think this is what GM's mean when they say to trust their board.
UserPostedImage
steveishere
10 years ago

If you knew others weren't going to draft said player until the later rounds, why would you grab him in an earlier round? Would you offer someone $15,000 for a pre-owned car when you know the sales price is $10,000?

I think this is what GM's mean when they say to trust their board.

Originally Posted by: Zero2Cool 



How would a GM know what every other GM is planning to do in the draft? If we are assuming that the GMs are "trusting their board" then that means Charles Johnson was very low on every GMs board. Trusting the board means taking a player based on what you think his abilities are regardless of what anyone else thinks. Hence a if a GM thought CJ was the 5th best WR for example he would have taken him before 20+ WRs were already off the board.
uffda udfa
10 years ago

How would a GM know what every other GM is planning to do in the draft? If we are assuming that the GMs are "trusting their board" then that means Charles Johnson was very low on every GMs board. Trusting the board means taking a player based on what you think his abilities are regardless of what anyone else thinks. Hence a if a GM thought CJ was the 5th best WR for example he would have taken him before 20+ WRs were already off the board.

Originally Posted by: steveishere 



This is really no different than drafting for fantasy football in a sense. When you do a fantasy draft everyone has access to the same info just like in an NFL draft with their subscription to central scouting.

Just as Zero said...it's a calculated gamble believing you're going to get value late that is worthy of being taken higher. I remember one fantasy draft taking Vincent Jackson coming off an injury with one of the final picks in the draft...he helped me to the Fantasy SB. VJax was a far better point producer than many guys taken high, and I could've taken him up high but I felt I could pull him late as nobody would be thinking of him. My gamble paid off. It doesn't always. Same kind of thing with LeVeon Bell last year...injured... someone scooped me on him but dropped him and I got him after all.

I'm sure the Packers thought highly of Donald Driver but also knew they could likely get him late so why take Driver high when you believe you can get him late.

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Ted Thompson sits on his hands per former GM: "because they’ve had 25 fricking years of great quarterbacks. Of course it works. Try it without a special quarterback."


steveishere
10 years ago

This is really no different than drafting for fantasy football in a sense. When you do a fantasy draft everyone has access to the same info just like in an NFL draft with their subscription to central scouting.

Just as Zero said...it's a calculated gamble believing you're going to get value late that is worthy of being taken higher. I remember one fantasy draft taking Vincent Jackson coming off an injury with one of the final picks in the draft...he helped me to the Fantasy SB. VJax was a far better point producer than many guys taken high, and I could've taken him up high but I felt I could pull him late as nobody would be thinking of him. My gamble paid off. It doesn't always. Same kind of thing with LeVeon Bell last year...injured... someone scooped me on him but dropped him and I got him after all.

I'm sure the Packers thought highly of Donald Driver but also knew they could likely get him late so why take Driver high when you believe you can get him late.

Originally Posted by: uffda udfa 



It's not fantasy football lol you think it's more likely that NFL teams had a guy highly rated and just let him drop to the 7th round to get a good deal than it is that he simply wasn't highly rated to begin with? I don't see it going down like that. Every team had a pick in the 6th round presumably that would have been a good deal for a highly rated WR right? Yet he still fell.

Not very likely IMO that we even had him as a 5th roundish WR and took an unknown out of nowhere guy like Nate Palmer first. It's more likely that we had Palmer as a higher rated prospect and took BPA.
play2win
10 years ago
Um, is this the offseason? 😆 😆 😆

More than an entire page of posts in a Chris Harper thread dedicated to Charles Johnson? Who in the fuck is Charles Johnson? I mean, really, a guy we drafted late, never saw play, hung onto via IR for a year and waived, picked up by the world beater Browns.

As worthless as 7th round picks may be perceived to be, in walks Jeff Janis...

Some picks work. Some picks don't.

Every team invests heavily in gaining more or better draft info than their competitors. Scouting staffs and their evaluations, along with scheduled visits for private workouts, etc give teams their own info on players to go along with the canned info we fans get in Combines and pro days. This accounts for teams stacking their draft boards differently than others.

Some fans wanted heads to roll after our 3rd round selections this year. Were they reaches? We can't really know. If there are 5-8 other teams below us who feel the same player is rising on their board and we take him 10-20 spots ahead of their picks to insure we secure the player, is it really a reach?

Maybe our scouting staff feels the difference between other players on their board near to this selection is negligible based on their millions of $ worth of research.

Talents in scouting vary as widely as talents in playing the game. That is what heightens the fun of the offseason to me with regards to FA, the draft, and UDFA, and we won't know who trumps who until well after the season starts.

July seems very, very far away...
steveishere
10 years ago
Enough derailment for me. I am much more excited about the WR competition this year than last year. We've got a lot of so far unknown guys like Harper, Dorsey, and our rookies to compete for 2 or 3 spots it should be fun to see. Hopefully talent decides things and not injuries. We've also got Myles White who made it on to the 53 for a short time last year. The big question is if someone like Harper looks like he's legit ready to play in games do you still take him over someone like Janis who possibly isn't ready to make that kind of impact yet but could be better in a couple years?
play2win
10 years ago

Enough derailment for me. I am much more excited about the WR competition this year than last year. We've got a lot of so far unknown guys like Harper, Dorsey, and our rookies to compete for 2 or 3 spots it should be fun to see. Hopefully talent decides things and not injuries. We've also got Myles White who made it on to the 53 for a short time last year. The big question is if someone like Harper looks like he's legit ready to play in games do you still take him over someone like Janis who possibly isn't ready to make that kind of impact yet but could be better in a couple years?

Originally Posted by: steveishere 



Completely agree, and hell yeah, there are some very compelling questions and variables going into the decisions that will be made in establishing our WR group for 2014.

There is some incredible talent 1-9 of all the WRs in house competing for the final roster, including Harper, Janis, Dorsey and White. I don't know about Gillette...

steveishere, after seeing all of them in practice, Harper was looking like he could compete with nearly anyone outside of Nelson & Cobb.
nerdmann
10 years ago
I remember this time of year 15 years ago, when I read articles about how Charles Lee and Corey Bradford were gonna have breakout seasons, because they were rededicating themselves. lol

This team has been very good of late at developing these late pick/undrafted FA types, but I'll wait until I actually see it before I start popping a woody.
“Winning is not a sometime thing, it is an all the time thing. You don't do things right once in a while…you do them right all the time.”
sschind
10 years ago

I remember this time of year 15 years ago, when I read articles about how Charles Lee and Corey Bradford were gonna have breakout seasons, because they were rededicating themselves. lol

This team has been very good of late at developing these late pick/undrafted FA types, but I'll wait until I actually see it before I start popping a woody.

Originally Posted by: nerdmann 




You realize that uffda wants a Bradford type guy right. A fast guy who is just that, a guy. Nothing special. If I were going to look into the Packers past and pick a type I would want on my team Corey Bradford probably wouldn't be at the top of my list.

Just bustin' your chops uffda, I know what you meant. I just couldn't resist seeing as how you and nerd both brought up Bradford
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packerfanoutwest (1h) : Inactives tonight for the Pack: Alexander- knee Bullard - ankle Williams - quad Walker -ankle Monk Heath
packerfanoutwest (1h) : No Jaire, but hopefully the front 7 destroys the line of scrimmage & forces Rattler into a few passes to McKinney.
packerfanoutwest (1h) : minny could be #1 seed and the Lions #5 seed
Zero2Cool (4h) : We'd have same Division and Conference records. Strength of schedule we edge them
Zero2Cool (4h) : I just checked. What tie breaker?
bboystyle (4h) : yes its possible but unlikely. If we do get the 5th, we face the NFCS winner
Zero2Cool (4h) : Ahh, ok.
bboystyle (4h) : yes due to tie breaker
Zero2Cool (4h) : I mean, unlikely, yes, but mathematically, 5th is possible by what I'm reading.
Zero2Cool (4h) : If Vikings lose out, Packers win out, Packers get 5th, right?
bboystyle (4h) : Minny isnt going to lose out so 5th seed is out of the equation. We are playing for the 6th or 7th seed which makes no difference
Mucky Tundra (5h) : beast, the ad revenue goes to the broadcast company but they gotta pay to air the game on their channel/network
beast (6h) : If we win tonight the game is still relative in terms of 5th, 6th or 7th seed... win and it's 5th or 6th, lose and it's 6th or 7th
beast (6h) : Mucky, I thought the ad revenue went to the broadcasting companies or the NFL, at least not directly
Zero2Cool (6h) : I think the revenue share is moot, isn't it? That's the CBA an Salary Cap handling that.
bboystyle (6h) : i mean game becomes irrelevant if we win tonight. Just a game where we are trying to play spoilers to Vikings chance at the #1 seed
Mucky Tundra (6h) : beast, I would guess ad revenue from more eyes watching tv
Zero2Cool (6h) : I would think it would hurt the home team because people would have to cancel last minute maybe? i dunno
beast (7h) : I agree that it's BS for fans planning on going to the game. But how does it bring in more money? I'm guessing indirectly?
packerfanoutwest (7h) : bs on flexing the game....they do it for the $$league$$, not the hometown fans
Zero2Cool (7h) : I see what you did there Mucky
Zero2Cool (8h) : dammit. 3:25pm
Zero2Cool (8h) : Packers Vikings flexed to 3:35pm
Mucky Tundra (8h) : Upon receiving the news about Luke Musgrave, I immediately fell to the ground
Mucky Tundra (8h) : Yeah baby!
Zero2Cool (8h) : LUKE MUSGRAVE PLAYING TONIGHT~!~~~~WOWHOAAOHAOAA yah
Zero2Cool (9h) : I wanna kill new QB's ... blitz the crap out of them.
beast (9h) : Barry seemed to get too conservative against new QBs, Hafley doesn't have that issue
Zero2Cool (10h) : However, we seem to struggle vs new QB's
Zero2Cool (10h) : Should be moot point, cuz Packers should win tonight.
packerfanoutwest (10h) : ok I stand corrected
Zero2Cool (10h) : Ok, yes, you are right. I see that now how they get 7th
Zero2Cool (10h) : 5th - Packers win out, Vikings lose out. Maybe?
beast (10h) : Saying no to the 6th lock.
beast (10h) : No, with the Commanders beating the Eagles, Packers could have a good chance of 6th or 7th unless the win out
Zero2Cool (10h) : I think if Packers win, they are locked 6th with chance for 5th.
beast (10h) : But it doesn't matter, as the Packers win surely win one of their remaining games
beast (10h) : This is not complex, just someone doesn't want to believe reality
beast (10h) : We already have told you... if Packers lose all their games (they won't, but if they did), and Buccaneers and Falcons win all theirs
Zero2Cool (10h) : I posted it in that Packers and 1 seed thread
Zero2Cool (11h) : I literally just said it.
packerfanoutwest (11h) : show us a scenario where Pack don't get in? bet you can't
Zero2Cool (11h) : Falcons, Buccaneers would need to win final two games.
Zero2Cool (11h) : Yes, if they win one of three, they are lock. If they lose out, they can be eliminated.
packerfanoutwest (11h) : as I just said,,gtheyh are in no matter what
Zero2Cool (11h) : Packers should get in. I just hope it's not 7th seed. Feels dirty.
packerfanoutwest (11h) : If packers lose out, no matter what, they are in
packerfanoutwest (11h) : both teams can not male the playoffs....falcon hold the tie breaker
packerfanoutwest (11h) : if bucs win out they win their division
beast (11h) : Fine, Buccaneers and Falcons can get ahead of us
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