Pack93z
  • Pack93z
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16 years ago
Dfoster.. get this.. I am not the only on that believes the linebackers problems are part of their own making.. :lol:

Another positive sign for 09'.

First step of improvement.. understanding your weakness.

Another crucial note.. not a single word about Hawk.. that is not a good sign for him as a player..

http://www.jsonline.com/sports/packers/36914519.html 

Green Bay - Change is most definitely coming to the Green Bay Packers.

No, coach Mike McCarthy has not yet named his defensive coordinator for next season. But whether Bob Sanders is retained, assistant head coach/linebackers Winston Moss is promoted or someone else is brought in, things are going to change.

And it's going to start at one of the Packers' most stable positions: linebacker.

"Everybody is in play now," Moss said Monday.

And he means everyone.

The Packers have entered the past three training camps with a pretty good idea which player was going to be at each linebacker spot: Nick Barnett would man the middle; A.J. Hawk was on the weak side; and Brady Poppinga helped clog up running lanes on the strong side.

No more.

Everyone will be evaluated for a position change, according to Moss. Desmond Bishop will be given a legitimate shot to win a starting job. Brandon Chillar will be given every opportunity to be an every-down player as well.

"There's going to be a great offseason to evaluate and then put together a group that can get on the field," Moss said. "Whoever comes out of that group as a top three, I'm going to be very happy about that because I think we've got some guys that can truly rebound from this year and have a great year next year."

Moss - if he and the scheme are back next season - can only hope that's the case because his unit, in his words, was one of the most "disappointing" in the 6-10 campaign.

With Barnett coming off a near-Pro Bowl season, Hawk two years removed from being the fifth overall pick in the draft and Poppinga having survived a camp battle with Chillar, a lot was expected of Moss' group.

Didn't happen.

"I thought there were some adequate individual performances that we executed well," Moss said. "But as a group, going into the season, anticipating being impactful and being difference-makers on our defense, that didn't happen. So we're going to have to take a look at that this offseason and find out why and have some answers and come back in '09 with the resolve that if you're put in a position to make plays, let's get that done."

As for changes for next season, Barnett might be an automatic one because there is no guarantee he will rebound from the torn anteroior cruciate knee ligament he suffered on Nov. 9. Normal recovery time is seven to nine months. The optimistic date would have Barnett ready for the start of training camp in late July. But some players don't regain their original burst for some time after that. And Barnett is a player who relies on his speed.

"I think that's going to be very tough," Moss said. "He's not going to have an offseason from a football standpoint. By the time he truly gets into actually practicing, it's probably going to be very, very late into our development as far as the offseason is concerned. Hopefully we can get him enough reps wherever he is at and see how he does and just take it as a progression. It's going to be a process."

While Barnett is rehabilitating, Bishop will likely get a look in the middle. And Hawk, with six starts there to finish the season, has proved capable of moving full time to a position where some thought he should have been all along.

"I believe he can (be a starting middle linebacker) but we're still going to go through that process to find out long term if that going to be the best for our football team," Moss said. "That has not been determined right now. Haven't event talked about it."

The Packers will also determine where best to use Chillar, who quickly established himself as the team's best cover linebacker. He did struggle to find consistency but Moss said that was because of the many things the Packers asked the free-agent signee to do.

"We put a lot on his plate," Moss said. "He had to do sub (packages), base (package), switch positions (from strong to weak) and switch positions in certain situations. I think sometimes there was a little case of being overwhelmed. I take the blame for that."

Nevertheless, Moss expects Chillar to be a force in '09.

"He's going to be great next year, whatever capacity," Moss said.

And then there's Poppinga, who had 68 tackles after posting 70 and 76 the previous two seasons. Not only did Moss not back down from his earlier statement that Poppinga was in the midst of a "very good" season, he indicated that Poppinga was the unit's top performer.

"He's maxing himself out," Moss said. "Is there room to get better? I believe he can from a pass-rush standpoint, from an impact standpoint. I still think that he is always going to evolve and continue to get better as long as he's on that football field. But this year, I thought he was one of the bright spots in our unit."

That Moss thought that highly of Poppinga's season - which was solid overall but characterized by some crucial missed tackles - might illustrate just how poorly the linebackers performed.

Perhaps the determining factor in all the position battles will be which player can win his battle in crucial situations.

"I think we're going to have to be on top of winning those one-on-ones," Moss said. "We were disappointing as unit and what I mean is we lost those one-on-ones in critical situations where if we would have won those one-on-ones at the end of the game, I would have felt better about our situation at linebacker."


"The oranges are dry; the apples are mealy; and the papayas... I don't know what's going on with the papayas!"
all_about_da_packers
16 years ago
Interesting tidbit about having LBs win more one on one match-ups.

To be honest, I'd expect this sort of thing to be said more so by Sanders since he is the DC. Moss at this point in time looks to be the more... natural (?) leader of the unit.
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Pack93z
  • Pack93z
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16 years ago

Interesting tidbit about having LBs win more one on one match-ups.

To be honest, I'd expect this sort of thing to be said more so by Sanders since he is the DC. Moss at this point in time looks to be the more... natural (?) leader of the unit.

"all_about_da_packers" wrote:



Here is my problem.. if you are looking towards a promotion, then your body of work should support the idea of advancement.. the growth of the linebacking unit here hasn't been overly successful.

So how good of a leader and teacher can you be if your isolated position hasn't grown and improved?

It is easy to display leadership on paper or into the air.. it is getting those around you to improve and succeed to me defines leadership.
"The oranges are dry; the apples are mealy; and the papayas... I don't know what's going on with the papayas!"
digsthepack
16 years ago
I took the tone of the article as very positive, and puts Barnett, specifically, on notice that he may no longer own the middle.

Hawk not being mentioned was suprising...possible trade in mind?
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porky88
16 years ago

Interesting tidbit about having LBs win more one on one match-ups.

To be honest, I'd expect this sort of thing to be said more so by Sanders since he is the DC. Moss at this point in time looks to be the more... natural (?) leader of the unit.

"pack93z" wrote:



Here is my problem.. if you are looking towards a promotion, then your body of work should support the idea of advancement.. the growth of the linebacking unit here hasn't been overly successful.

So how good of a leader and teacher can you be if your isolated position hasn't grown and improved?

It is easy to display leadership on paper or into the air.. it is getting those around you to improve and succeed to me defines leadership.

"all_about_da_packers" wrote:



Mike McCarthy would never of been hired using your philosophy which isn't a bad one, but you have to look at the coach as a whole. When majority of the people within the organization and around the league speak highly of Winston Moss it tells you that this guy has IT.

Ironically it's Winston Moss that is putting the players on notice and not Mike McCarthy or Bob Sanders. Just another reason why I believe he should be the defensive coordinator next year. Just give him the keys and let Sander's influence drift away.

He called out Hawk later in the year and Hawk responded with I believe eight tackles and a sack against the Jaguars. Now he's calling out the unit. I know you hold him responsible for the unit's decline, but the bigger picture points right at Bob Sanders in my opinion.
go.pack.go.
16 years ago
If I'm not mistaken, Hawk WAS mentioned....they said that he has proved he could play MLB.
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Pack93z
  • Pack93z
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16 years ago

I know you hold him responsible for the unit's decline, but the bigger picture points right at Bob Sanders in my opinion.

"porky88" wrote:



While I don't think he gets the whole finger of blame, but watching the individual play of the backers.. the first step, the reaction time, the angles, the cover techniques, the way they use there hands in traffic (or lack of it), etc.. that speaks of individual coaching.. in many cases this season.. those areas that I point blame towards Moss..

A third year backer with the talent of Hawk shouldn't be getting tied up in traffic every single play.. he shouldn't be slow to make a read on a play.. he shouldn't be struggling to engage.. those are the things that drive me nuts with this group..

I have fundamental concept issues with the defense deployed in regards to the assignments gives to the backers.. I think they are at times put into a position less that ideal to succeed.. that falls on Sanders.. but some of the raw fundamentals that this group, not just Hawk, are displaying is where I become frustrated with Moss and his coaching of this group.

Some of these things are basic fundamentals I learned in camps across the midwest.. things they teach young players early.. effective hand play to assist in moving through traffic.. how to effectively read a play (pre-snap foot placement, QB movements, a backs tenancies, etc.. ).. things third year pros shouldn't be struggling with.

The fact that none of the backers excelled is troubling as well.. I am telling you.. this groups problems weren't all the Dlines making, or the DC scheme.. there are fundamental issues within their games.
"The oranges are dry; the apples are mealy; and the papayas... I don't know what's going on with the papayas!"
Bigbyfan
16 years ago

Interesting tidbit about having LBs win more one on one match-ups.

To be honest, I'd expect this sort of thing to be said more so by Sanders since he is the DC. Moss at this point in time looks to be the more... natural (?) leader of the unit.

"pack93z" wrote:



Here is my problem.. if you are looking towards a promotion, then your body of work should support the idea of advancement.. the growth of the linebacking unit here hasn't been overly successful.

So how good of a leader and teacher can you be if your isolated position hasn't grown and improved?

It is easy to display leadership on paper or into the air.. it is getting those around you to improve and succeed to me defines leadership.

"all_about_da_packers" wrote:



A lot of things affected the LB's play. Injuries to Nick Barnett and AJ Hawk definitely had an impact on their play, but also the D-line could not do enough damage to allow the LB to play freely.
blank
Pack93z
  • Pack93z
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16 years ago



A lot of things affected the LB's play. Injuries to Nick Barnett and AJ Hawk definitely had an impact on their play, but also the D-line could not do enough damage to allow the LB to play freely.

"Bigbyfan" wrote:



Watch every given Sunday.. blockers get to the backers on a regular basis.. as a pro backer.. you need to be able to shed blocks.. something we as a backing group can't effectively do.

Hence the not beating their one on one matchups.. that is what he is referring to directly.. lack of ability to beat a man up block effectively.

If an offense is worth its salt.. a backer should never be roaming freely play side... if they are.. you have a world of trouble.

Stealing a line here.. "It is convenient to point to the line play to excuse the backers performances."
"The oranges are dry; the apples are mealy; and the papayas... I don't know what's going on with the papayas!"
PackFanWithTwins
16 years ago
Overall I think this should be the case at every position. New year, means nobody is set in their position if another is better.

I think the shuffling after Barnett's injury showed some things. Bishop made some plays, but he wasn't at MLB when he did, Hawk was. I like the extra size of Hawk in the middle against the run and the speed of the smaller LBers on the edge.

Ho matter how it works out, as long as the best three or best combination of three are on the field when it is over, I am all for it.
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