PackFanWithTwins
10 years ago

As much as I've grown to like Boykin, the Packers made the right decision putting Jones on the field. Not only is he the starter, you want to have your leaders, your seasoned players in there.

Originally Posted by: blueleopard 



Jones must have been keeping the injury to himself. The way the Packers handle injuries I can't see them not having him listed if they knew. And the league frowns on not listing injured players.
The world needs ditch diggers too Danny!!!
beast
10 years ago

Eh, the Buck always stop with the Boss. If Capers thinks his subordinates are making the wrong decision, he has to over-rule them. That's his job. He's the guy that knows more about his scheme as a whole. Even if his position coaches were making the mistakes, than Capers is still to blame for not correcting them. If I was making mistakes at my job and my boss didn't correct them, I would still get in trouble, but so would my boss because he's ultimately responsible for everything we produce. Ultimately, it would end up in lost contracts and some of us without jobs.

Originally Posted by: DoddPower 



Well if we're going to give the boss all the blame then why isn't he also getting all the credit for the good things?

What I see is people blaming one scape goat and saying everything else is alright when that's clearly bull...


All i hear is it's Capers fault over and over...

Capers get blamed for the horrible Safety play, I still haven't heard people question the Safetey coach and maybe weather he's at fault at all for not being able to coach guys up better.

Capers get blamed for the OLB not being better yet people are hoping Coach Greene become the next defensive coordinator, when Greene has basically said he loves Dom system and it sounds like it's what he would want to run as well... and Greene has only had one above average player (Matthews) and has failed to coach up other draft pick to where they're decent players... yet Capers gets all the blame.


And if the Boss gets all the blame then it should be MM, because he's the boss... and he's the one that forced Capers to switch schemes, to a more traditional 3-4 scheme.

Heck Mike McCarthy unit played worse than Capers units in the playoffs and Mike McCarthy hired Capers... that should be enough to get Mike McCarthy fired based on some of the logic that been going around. Yet it all goes onto Capers... just like it has all gone on Hawk, Bush and Crosby other years, when time has proven it wasn't their fault. Fans need a scape goat... doesn't mean that scape goat is always truely as fault.
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beast
10 years ago

Jones must have been keeping the injury to himself. The way the Packers handle injuries I can't see them not having him listed if they knew. And the league frowns on not listing injured players.

Originally Posted by: PackFanWithTwins 



Yeah I was thinking the Packers could be seeing a fine for not listing this on the injury report (at least if the NFL can prove they knew about it).
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steveishere
10 years ago

Well if we're going to give the boss all the blame then why isn't he also getting all the credit for the good things?

What I see is people blaming one scape goat and saying everything else is alright when that's clearly bull...


All i hear is it's Capers fault over and over...

Capers get blamed for the horrible Safety play, I still haven't heard people question the Safetey coach and maybe weather he's at fault at all for not being able to coach guys up better.

Capers get blamed for the OLB not being better yet people are hoping Coach Greene become the next defensive coordinator, when Greene has basically said he loves Dom system and it sounds like it's what he would want to run as well... and Greene has only had one above average player (Matthews) and has failed to coach up other draft pick to where they're decent players... yet Capers gets all the blame.


And if the Boss gets all the blame then it should be MM, because he's the boss... and he's the one that forced Capers to switch schemes, to a more traditional 3-4 scheme.

Heck Mike McCarthy unit played worse than Capers units in the playoffs and Mike McCarthy hired Capers... that should be enough to get Mike McCarthy fired based on some of the logic that been going around. Yet it all goes onto Capers... just like it has all gone on Hawk, Bush and Crosby other years, when time has proven it wasn't their fault. Fans need a scape goat... doesn't mean that scape goat is always truely as fault.

Originally Posted by: beast 



Right then, Capers has absolutely NO responsibility and his defense has been marvelous for the last 3 years (and if it hasn't been well that was obviously someone elses fault)
beast
10 years ago

Right then, Capers has absolutely NO responsibility and his defense has been marvelous for the last 3 years (and if it hasn't been well that was obviously someone elses fault)

Originally Posted by: steveishere 



Exactly!!! Finally someone with some common sense up in here....

[sarcasm]


On a more serious note... Capers deserves some blame... but not all the blame like he has been getting... I think it should be fire the whole defense staff ... not fire Capers and promote Kevin Greene (who would probably do the same things) ...


That or fire all the coaches and get some better coaches up in here... it's not like Mike McCarthy has done a great coach with those first couple drives against the 49ers that were 3 and outs... take the ball out of the hands of your best play maker 4 plays to start a game? What was Mike McCarthy thinking?


Or why not Ted Thompson as well? It's not like this roster has been overly good... I think somebody here has posted that the OTs have been bottom of the NFL this year.... and have you seen the lack of Safety play? And last helpful 1st round pick this season was from 2009...


But if we fire Capers all these other problems will somehow magically fit themselves...
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DoddPower
10 years ago

Well if we're going to give the boss all the blame then why isn't he also getting all the credit for the good things?

What I see is people blaming one scape goat and saying everything else is alright when that's clearly bull...


All i hear is it's Capers fault over and over...

Capers get blamed for the horrible Safety play, I still haven't heard people question the Safetey coach and maybe weather he's at fault at all for not being able to coach guys up better.

Capers get blamed for the OLB not being better yet people are hoping Coach Greene become the next defensive coordinator, when Greene has basically said he loves Dom system and it sounds like it's what he would want to run as well... and Greene has only had one above average player (Matthews) and has failed to coach up other draft pick to where they're decent players... yet Capers gets all the blame.


And if the Boss gets all the blame then it should be MM, because he's the boss... and he's the one that forced Capers to switch schemes, to a more traditional 3-4 scheme.

Heck Mike McCarthy unit played worse than Capers units in the playoffs and Mike McCarthy hired Capers... that should be enough to get Mike McCarthy fired based on some of the logic that been going around. Yet it all goes onto Capers... just like it has all gone on Hawk, Bush and Crosby other years, when time has proven it wasn't their fault. Fans need a scape goat... doesn't mean that scape goat is always truely as fault.

Originally Posted by: beast 



As I said, the buck stops with him. He gets credit for the good, and the bad. I've already credited him with a decent job this year in the playoffs. However, imo, there has been more good than bad. It's not based off one game either. McCarthy's unit consistently performs better than the Packers defense. I'm not sure why some struggle to understand the bigger picture, and that a few games here and there do not and should not sway ones perspective of a coach or a player one way or the other. It's a cumulative evaluation over the long term.

But your right, McCarthy should get more blame for keeping around under performing players or coaches. I'm totally OK with that. I think sometimes Ted Thompson and Mike McCarthy are far too loyal . . . to a fault. I think there should be more accountability for the Packers failures the past few years.
beast
10 years ago

However, imo, there has been more good than bad.

Originally Posted by: DoddPower 


Can I quote you on that? [grin1]

But your right, McCarthy should get more blame for keeping around under performing players or coaches.

Originally Posted by: DoddPower 


That's all I'm asking... just want people to stop blaming one person... it's not one person. It's not one fix... othrs should be getting some blame as well, not just one person.

I'm fine with the idea of firing the whole defeive staff (if there is a better group of coaches) but I don't think it's one guy... and I don't think it's just the coaches either. Players have their own share of blame as well...

I'm not sure why some struggle to understand the bigger picture, and that a few games here and there do not and should not sway ones perspective of a coach or a player one way or the other. It's a cumulative evaluation over the long term.

Originally Posted by: DoddPower 



I agree... and I also don't know why the people, media or NFL use yardage to rank teams... points are what matter. Looking over the Packers years since the 1990s only two defensive coordinator have gotten the team into top 10 more than one year... Dom Capers and Fritz Shurmur

Packers points allowed

2013: 24th
2013 (with Rodgers): 15th
2013 (without Rodgers): 32nd

2012: 9th*
( * = if they called the fail mary play correctly )

Bold and Red = Top 10 in least amount of points given up that season

Capers
2013: 24th (15th when Rodgers played)
2012: 9th*
2011: 19th
2010: 2nd
2009: 7th


Bob Sanders
2008: 22nd
2007: 6th
2006: 25th

Jim Bates
2005: 19th

Bob Slowik
2004: 23rd

Ed Donatell
2003: 11th
2002: 12th
2001: 5th
2000: 14th

Emmitt Thomas
1999: 20th

Fritz Shurmur
1998: 11th
1997: 5th
1996: 1st
1995: 4th
1994: 5th


Ray Rhodes
1993: 9th
1992: 15th

Hank Bullough
1991: 18th
1990: 18th
1989: 18th
1988: 11th
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