Tiki Barber Says Trent Dilfer was better than Dan Marino

OlHoss1884
Member Topic Starter

11 years ago

Specifically, he said that Eli will be regarded as better than Peyton because he has more rings. Jamie Dukes has echoed this asking rhetorically "which is a better indicator of greatness, MVP's or Championships?"

I for one am getting really sick of this stupid argument. Championships do NOT determine who is the better QB. They are, like anything else, a factor, but far from the only one. A great QB with a terrible defense will not win championships. Likewise an average QB with a great defense CAN win a championship.

Marino
Kelly
Tarkenton
Fouts
Moon

I will take them over Hostetler, Johnson, Dilfer, Williams, McMahaon any given Sunday. The whole count the rings thing is the kind of dumb argument people like Steelers fans make to rationalize why Bradshaw is supposed to be better than anyone.

I would submit that anyone who resorts to that argument, all other things being clearly unequal, is already admitting they a) have lost the argument and b) really don't know football.

"The difference between genius and stupidity is that genius has its limits" --Albert Einstein

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Zero2Cool
Elite Member

11 years ago

I don't think I seen Terry "4 rings" Bradshaw mentioned ...

OlHoss1884
Member Topic Starter

11 years ago

I don't think I seen Terry "4 rings" Bradshaw mentioned ...

Originally Posted by: Zero2Cool

In what context? The 5 I listed never won a upper Bowl, the second 5 did. In the case of Bradshaw there is an argument to be made that he was an all time great. In my recollection he was there with Stabler as the best AFC QB during the 70s. I am just saying that rings are not the penultimate argument in determining who was the best, unless all else is kind of equal. Based on that logic, Robert Horry was better than Jordan, and Luc Longley was better than Wilt Chamberlain. Or Tim Wakefield was better than Cy Young and Scooter Rizzuto was better than Babe Ruth.

"The difference between genius and stupidity is that genius has its limits" --Albert Einstein

Wade
Veteran Member

11 years ago

Winning a ring doesn't make a "great" quarterback. Winning three or more does.

Dilfer wasn't. Williams wasn't. Starr was. Unitas was.

Should you be considered a "great" quarterback if you win none at all? That's a lot tougher call for me.

I do know I'd rather have a team led by Starr or Unitas or, yes, a team led by Bradshaw, than a team led by Marino. Marino to me is the poster boy for the proposition that "stats don't make greatness."

And do not be conformed to this world, but be transformed by the renewing of your mind, that you may prove what is that good and acceptable and perfect will of God.
Romans 12:2 (NKJV)

Wade
Veteran Member

11 years ago

Oh, and:
1. Tiki Barber was not a great player.
2. Tiki Barber is not someone whose opinion is worth a whole heckuva lot.

[grin1]

And do not be conformed to this world, but be transformed by the renewing of your mind, that you may prove what is that good and acceptable and perfect will of God.
Romans 12:2 (NKJV)

OlHoss1884
Member Topic Starter

11 years ago

Though I would add this...Marino was no doubt a great quarterback. His teams suffered from mediocre defense through much of his tenure, especially toward the later part of Shula's career, when he wouldn't can his DC (Tom Olividatti) out of loyalty.

To me I think it comes down to who do you pick to be your guy in an all time draft to build your team around and I think most people would have the 5 I mentioned in addition to guys you mention somewhere in that list. And I doubt many of them would honestly pick an Eli Manning ahead of any of them, clutch in the playoffs or not.

"The difference between genius and stupidity is that genius has its limits" --Albert Einstein

TheKanataThrilla
Veteran Member

11 years ago

Originally Posted by: Wade

I don't buy that at all. That is like saying John Elway was a greater QB in the twilight of his career than in his prime based on the fact he finally won the Superbowl and finally had a complete team in front of him and a little luck.

Wade
Veteran Member

11 years ago

I don't buy that at all. That is like saying John Elways was a greater QB in the twilight of his career than in his prime based on the fact he finally won the Superbowl and finally had a complete team in front of him and a little luck.

Originally Posted by: TheKanataThrilla

Actually, I didn't say anything re: Elway at all. I said that one super bowl win was not enough, by itself to qualify as "great". And I said three or more did.

Indeed, part of the reason I was silent on how to interpret "two SB wins" was my not wanting to speak to Elway. To my mind, Elway was overrated throughout his career. Despite his HOF position and his general acclaim, I wouldn't put him in the top 25 list.

And do not be conformed to this world, but be transformed by the renewing of your mind, that you may prove what is that good and acceptable and perfect will of God.
Romans 12:2 (NKJV)

TheKanataThrilla
Veteran Member

11 years ago

Originally Posted by: Wade

No you said "Should you be considered a "great" quarterback if you win none at all? That's a lot tougher call for me." To me it is not, because Elway was fucking great way before he won a Superbowl.

Top 25 what? Of all time? QBs?

OlHoss1884
Member Topic Starter

11 years ago

#10

Here's my list, in no particular order:

Graham
Baugh
Luckman
Unitas
Starr
P. Manning
Brady
Staubach
Marino
Elway
Bradshaw
Aikman
Favre
Tarkenton
Montana
Young
Fouts
Kelly
Moon
Stabler
Herber
Brees
Layne
Van Brocklin
and I reserve the last spot for A-Rod, but might be too short a career at this point to count.

"The difference between genius and stupidity is that genius has its limits" --Albert Einstein

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beast (24-Dec) : Sounds like no serious injuries from the Saints game and Jacobs and Watson should play in the Vikings game

packerfanoutwest (24-Dec) : both games Watson missed, Packers won

Martha Careful (24-Dec) : I hope all of you have a Merry Christmas!

Mucky Tundra (24-Dec) : Oh I know about Jacobs, I just couldn't pass up an opportunity to mimic Zero lol

buckeyepackfan (24-Dec) : Jacobs was just sat down, Watson re-injured that knee that kept him out 1 game earlier

buckeyepackfan (24-Dec) : I needed .14 that's. .14 points for the whole 4th quarter to win and go to the SB. Lol

Mucky Tundra (24-Dec) : Jacobs gonna be OK???

Zero2Cool (24-Dec) : Watson gonna be OK???

packerfanoutwest (24-Dec) : Inactives tonight for the Pack: Alexander- knee Bullard - ankle Williams - quad Walker -ankle Monk Heath

packerfanoutwest (24-Dec) : No Jaire, but hopefully the front 7 destroys the line of scrimmage & forces Rattler into a few passes to McKinney.

packerfanoutwest (24-Dec) : minny could be #1 seed and the Lions #5 seed

Zero2Cool (23-Dec) : We'd have same Division and Conference records. Strength of schedule we edge them

Zero2Cool (23-Dec) : I just checked. What tie breaker?

bboystyle (23-Dec) : yes its possible but unlikely. If we do get the 5th, we face the NFCS winner

Zero2Cool (23-Dec) : Ahh, ok.

bboystyle (23-Dec) : yes due to tie breaker

Zero2Cool (23-Dec) : I mean, unlikely, yes, but mathematically, 5th is possible by what I'm reading.

Zero2Cool (23-Dec) : If Vikings lose out, Packers win out, Packers get 5th, right?

bboystyle (23-Dec) : Minny isnt going to lose out so 5th seed is out of the equation. We are playing for the 6th or 7th seed which makes no difference

Mucky Tundra (23-Dec) : beast, the ad revenue goes to the broadcast company but they gotta pay to air the game on their channel/network

beast (23-Dec) : If we win tonight the game is still relative in terms of 5th, 6th or 7th seed... win and it's 5th or 6th, lose and it's 6th or 7th

beast (23-Dec) : Mucky, I thought the ad revenue went to the broadcasting companies or the NFL, at least not directly

Zero2Cool (23-Dec) : I think the revenue share is moot, isn't it? That's the CBA an Salary Cap handling that.

bboystyle (23-Dec) : i mean game becomes irrelevant if we win tonight. Just a game where we are trying to play spoilers to Vikings chance at the #1 seed

Mucky Tundra (23-Dec) : beast, I would guess ad revenue from more eyes watching tv

Zero2Cool (23-Dec) : I would think it would hurt the home team because people would have to cancel last minute maybe? i dunno

beast (23-Dec) : I agree that it's BS for fans planning on going to the game. But how does it bring in more money? I'm guessing indirectly?

packerfanoutwest (23-Dec) : bs on flexing the game....they do it for the $$league$$, not the hometown fans

Zero2Cool (23-Dec) : I see what you did there Mucky

Zero2Cool (23-Dec) : dammit. 3:25pm

Zero2Cool (23-Dec) : Packers Vikings flexed to 3:35pm

Mucky Tundra (23-Dec) : Upon receiving the news about Luke Musgrave, I immediately fell to the ground

Mucky Tundra (23-Dec) : Yeah baby!

Zero2Cool (23-Dec) : LUKE MUSGRAVE PLAYING TONIGHT~!~~~~WOWHOAAOHAOAA yah

Zero2Cool (23-Dec) : I wanna kill new QB's ... blitz the crap out of them.

beast (23-Dec) : Barry seemed to get too conservative against new QBs, Hafley doesn't have that issue

Zero2Cool (23-Dec) : However, we seem to struggle vs new QB's

Zero2Cool (23-Dec) : Should be moot point, cuz Packers should win tonight.

packerfanoutwest (23-Dec) : ok I stand corrected

Zero2Cool (23-Dec) : Ok, yes, you are right. I see that now how they get 7th

Zero2Cool (23-Dec) : 5th - Packers win out, Vikings lose out. Maybe?

beast (23-Dec) : Saying no to the 6th lock.

beast (23-Dec) : No, with the Commanders beating the Eagles, Packers could have a good chance of 6th or 7th unless the win out

Zero2Cool (23-Dec) : I think if Packers win, they are locked 6th with chance for 5th.

beast (23-Dec) : But it doesn't matter, as the Packers win surely win one of their remaining games

beast (23-Dec) : This is not complex, just someone doesn't want to believe reality

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