beast
12 years ago

By taking them out, you take out the ones the Receiver is responsible for.

Originally Posted by: Dexter_Sinister 



No it doesn't the drops are still there.

It doesn't really matter though. If a receiver reduces the number of missed targets because he is better, he should get credit for it.

Originally Posted by: Dexter_Sinister 



Targets are more on the QB than the R (receiver) and you keep only taking about the reduce... they can also add to them. Which there for those come closer to cancelling each other out and it's even more so on the QB and even less so on the R.


UserPostedImage
Dexter_Sinister
12 years ago

No it doesn't the drops are still there.



Targets are more on the QB than the R (receiver) and you keep only taking about the reduce... they can also add to them. Which there for those come closer to cancelling each other out and it's even more so on the QB and even less so on the R.

Originally Posted by: beast 



The drops are there, but the fighting for a ball that would be deflected or picked off by the DB are not. The times he uses his body to shield the defender. The times he gets open with a great cut or outrunning the coverage. None of those are there either.

Just like YAC for a QB. It isn't all to the credit of the QB, but some is. They don't take YAC out of the passer rating. Because the better QBs will have more.

If a R is great at getting separation, he will have fewer passes deflected. He will have fewer passes thrown away. His completions per target will go up the better he is.
I want to go out like my Grandpa did. Peacefully in his sleep.
Not screaming in terror like his passengers.
nerdmann
12 years ago
i still think there's something about the way Aaron throws the ball.

If it was just one guy dropping passes, that'd be one thing.
“Winning is not a sometime thing, it is an all the time thing. You don't do things right once in a while…you do them right all the time.”
beast
12 years ago

If a R is great at getting separation, he will have fewer passes deflected. He will have fewer passes thrown away. His completions per target will go up the better he is.

Originally Posted by: Dexter_Sinister 



If you assume, the QB only throws to a guy when he's open. Then yes... but often times when the QB is pressure they still try to get the ball off and at times isn't near the R.

So you're correct R can effect the target... but the QB effect it so much more. And we don't know if they even had a chance at catching the ball. And lots of teams play in zones, so the guy could beat his coverage but the QB doesn't see a double team and the ball doesn't get to the R and it's the fault of the QB.

The targets add a lot more that on the QB than the R. Can the R effect it? Yes... but they're more the dependent variable on that stat with independent variable... if the R is more so the dependent variable it shouldn't count against them.

UserPostedImage
Dexter_Sinister
12 years ago

If you assume, the QB only throws to a guy when he's open. Then yes... but often times when the QB is pressure they still try to get the ball off and at times isn't near the R.

So you're correct R can effect the target... but the QB effect it so much more. And we don't know if they even had a chance at catching the ball. And lots of teams play in zones, so the guy could beat his coverage but the QB doesn't see a double team and the ball doesn't get to the R and it's the fault of the QB.

The targets add a lot more that on the QB than the R. Can the R effect it? Yes... but they're more the dependent variable on that stat with independent variable... if the R is more so the dependent variable it shouldn't count against them.

Originally Posted by: beast 



No I am not assuming that.

But just like YAC for a QB, it doesn't all have to be because of him for him to have a positive impact on YAC. A QB doesn't actually get YAC. He is completely dependent on the WR. But a better QB will have more. So it counts..

Will a better receiver be open more than a bad one?

Will a better receiver have fewer passes defensed?

Will a better receiver fight for a ball?

Will a better receiver go up and get the ball at it's highest point?

Will a better receiver shield the defender?

Will a better receiver get more separation?

If YAC counts for a QB, Targets count for a WR.

I want to go out like my Grandpa did. Peacefully in his sleep.
Not screaming in terror like his passengers.
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