steveishere
12 years ago
Yeah it seems to me that if this move was necessary then it should have been made last year. The only thing I can think of is maybe they really think Barclay is a better RT than the other guys are as LT and want to make a situation where he can get on the field. He's the only player on the roster at the moment who has had any real success as a RT besides Bulaga.
+1
Gaycandybacon
12 years ago

In place of constant musical chairs.. how about actually building a cohesive unit from the start. It sounds easy to just flip them from one side to the other, but it is not.

Your stance is different, your initial setup is different, your slide and balance is different (especially at tackle).

Your arm play is different, most people favor one hand over the other.. you have to account for that.

Your reads are different, albeit with our wide range of sets, probably not as bad as more static offenses.

Personally, MM, until you fix the root issue (Campen) and this other shit is smoke and mirrors. Quit dicking with the personnel and fix the root issue... the position coach whom has struggled from day one to build a freaking solid unit.

I don't mind them trying to put their best players where they want them to be.. but do it from day one then. Playing musical chairs yearly just weakens the entire unit as a whole.

Originally Posted by: Pack93z 



What do you suggest we do? Fire Campen and start the same line as last year that struggled all season long?

You bought up building a cohesive unit from the start. Well that's what they're doing. They wanna try something new, if it's musical chairs so be it. It's not like they've never played the other side before, otherwise they wouldn't have done this move.
This isn't really musical chairs either, i'd only say that if it was in the middle of a season. They are gonna start off with a group and see if it works.

Blame the coaches all you want it's not gonna fix it with the snap of someone elses fingers.

DoddPower
12 years ago

What do you suggest we do? Fire Campen and start the same line as last year that struggled all season long?

You bought up building a cohesive unit from the start. Well that's what they're doing. They wanna try something new, if it's musical chairs so be it. It's not like they've never played the other side before, otherwise they wouldn't have done this move.
This isn't really musical chairs either, i'd only say that if it was in the middle of a season. They are gonna start off with a group and see if it works.

Blame the coaches all you want it's not gonna fix it with the snap of someone elses fingers.

Originally Posted by: Gaycandybacon 




Yeah, better late than never. Sure, it could have been attempted earlier, but it wasn't. They have got to do what they can from here, regardless of what has happened in the past. It's not ideal, but reality hardly ever is. At least now they have an entire off season and season to grow. I don't think Bulaga will be any worse than Newhouse at LT, and very likely much better. I also think Newhouse has the potential to be a very solid RT and will be much more valuable there than at LT. This move could definitely pay off, but there will be some growing pains.
play2win
12 years ago
Well, we know what they did last season did not work... at all. Personally, I don't think anyone outside of Sitton, Lang and Bulaga own a position on this line.

I could not agree more about the piss poor coaching by Campen, all these years. It has been horrible. McCarthy hasn't helped with pass happy schemes to start each season, putting all of his OL on their heels in pass blocking sets.

Please change the coaching!!! Get a consultant. Anything. I don't care. James Campen has shown very poorly as our OL coach since his installment there.
Pack93z
12 years ago

What do you suggest we do? Fire Campen and start the same line as last year that struggled all season long?

Originally Posted by: Gaycandybacon 



Yes.. I do think walking Campen now would be the best thing. Actually the only thing that will fix this unit for the balance of MM time here and or Rodgers.

I am not opposed to moving Bulaga to his nature position and one in which he was drafted to do.. left tackle. I believe it should have been done in 2011 or at worst last season if they were going to do so. Or if they felt Sherrod was a better long term fit, then what has changed if they have confidence he can return? Personally now, I think they are also hampering Newhouse's development as a tackle, if that is what they see him as.

But now they are going to basically start completely over.. which is even fine if it can be done effectively. There is the rub, Campen was the one that put together the current positioning and it has failed. He failed to develop prospect after prospect, yearly we see breakdown after breakdown in stunt pickups and reads.

Yearly they move guys around.. at least the past three years they left the right side alone for the most part and it became the strongest part of the unit. Not a coincidence.

So we are going to enter camp without a single player returning to the same position as last season.. EDS may find a home at Center instead of playing all three inside spots.

If you are going to start fresh, all I am saying is start fresh with a new position coach that actually can build a unit.

So yes, I suggest today to walk him from the position and find a candidate that can do the job. Because this solution hasn't proven to be successful.. jumbling the positions again is just another sign that it hasn't worked.

And if MM did force this move as suggested.. what further evidence does one need?
"The oranges are dry; the apples are mealy; and the papayas... I don't know what's going on with the papayas!"
+1
Gaycandybacon
12 years ago

Yes.. I do think walking Campen now would be the best thing. Actually the only thing that will fix this unit for the balance of Mike McCarthy time here and or Rodgers.

I am not opposed to moving Bulaga to his nature position and one in which he was drafted to do.. left tackle. I believe it should have been done in 2011 or at worst last season if they were going to do so. Or if they felt Sherrod was a better long term fit, then what has changed if they have confidence he can return? Personally now, I think they are also hampering Newhouse's development as a tackle, if that is what they see him as.

But now they are going to basically start completely over.. which is even fine if it can be done effectively. There is the rub, Campen was the one that put together the current positioning and it has failed. He failed to develop prospect after prospect, yearly we see breakdown after breakdown in stunt pickups and reads.

Yearly they move guys around.. at least the past three years they left the right side alone for the most part and it became the strongest part of the unit. Not a coincidence.

So we are going to enter camp without a single player returning to the same position as last season.. EDS may find a home at Center instead of playing all three inside spots.

If you are going to start fresh, all I am saying is start fresh with a new position coach that actually can build a unit.

So yes, I suggest today to walk him from the position and find a candidate that can do the job. Because this solution hasn't proven to be successful.. jumbling the positions again is just another sign that it hasn't worked.

And if Mike McCarthy did force this move as suggested.. what further evidence does one need?

Originally Posted by: Pack93z 



I'm no offensive line genius, but all the O-Line needs to do is keep 5 guys healthy this year to be successful. That's it. I think the coaches like I said want to put the players in their best position to play well. As well as see if they can play better at another position. The thing that is bright about this offensive line is versatility.
Pack93z
12 years ago

I'm no offensive line genius, but all the O-Line needs to do is keep 5 guys healthy this year to be successful. That's it. I think the coaches like I said want to put the players in their best position to play well. As well as see if they can play better at another position. The thing that is bright about this offensive line is versatility.

Originally Posted by: Gaycandybacon 



Neither am I an genius nor expert... but it boils down to this simple principle in life. If I am failing at my job, I expect a certain amount of time to resolve the issue. If I cannot correct it, I expect to be replaced from those responsibilities or given assistance to correct it at a minimum.

The beauty of sports, or part of it, is that it is a business in which it is visible for the world to see.

And time after time, Campen's units have failed to live up to the standards put forth. Yes, some of that is play call related as it gives the advantage to the defense, but in the same regard, if the oline was blowing holes open, we probably would see more runs.

We have seen prospect after prospect trotted in to GB, some drafted, some FA, some UDFA. But guess what, other teams have the same playing field.. and they yearly manage to put out good products at offensive line.

Hence the frustration.. it isn't the moves really. It is the fact that we again are forced to play switcheroo because of the inability of the position coaches on the offensive line to build a unit. We can talk about injuries there.. but yearly we have struggled with the starting 5 as well. Think back to 07, or 08. Same thing.. different year.

And it is not that we haven't had the talent available.. they have played well in stretches.. but lack consistency and focus over the term. It screams coaching.
"The oranges are dry; the apples are mealy; and the papayas... I don't know what's going on with the papayas!"
play2win
12 years ago
Is Russ Grimm available? I don't see him listed anywhere on a staff. He did great with the Cardinals early with Edgerrin James and Kurt Warner. He's got to be better than Campen.

Bob Wylie looks to be available. Improved the Raiders line in 2011 from 29th to 4th in total sacks allowed. Don't know about the run blocking there.

We could raid the college ranks too.

Rick Trickett from Florida State knows a thing or two about zone blocking...

Hell, hire Alex Gibbs as a consultant!!! Why not?
Pack93z
12 years ago

Is Russ Grimm available? I don't see him listed anywhere on a staff. He did great with the Cardinals early with Edgerrin James and Kurt Warner. He's got to be better than Campen.

Bob Wylie looks to be available. Improved the Raiders line in 2011 from 29th to 4th in total sacks allowed. Don't know about the run blocking there.

We could raid the college ranks too.

Rick Trickett from Florida State knows a thing or two about zone blocking...

Hell, hire Alex Gibbs as a consultant!!! Why not?

Originally Posted by: play2win 



Yeah.. A while back I ran through a list of guys and posted them as guys that I would see as significant upgrades.. even now, a offensive line coach would have time to digest the playbook and install protection schemes.

If that were to happen.. personally, I am a ton happier with a juggle knowing that someone might have a plan short and long term for a productive offensive line.
"The oranges are dry; the apples are mealy; and the papayas... I don't know what's going on with the papayas!"
Wade
  • Wade
  • Veteran Member
12 years ago
I think Newhouse will be solid at RT. I'd prefer him there anyway. I think it's actually an upgrade. Therefore, I have no problem with that part of the move....except...

as most people know, I think Bulaga overrated. I think he was overrated at RT, especially against the pass, and I am not re-assured by the idea of him being the starting LT. This really scares me, and I don't care that it was the position he played at Iowa. I just don't think he's as good as everyone seems to think.

I don't know the differences in switching from one guard position to the other. So I don't know if this is going to be a significant thing for Sitton or not. He's definitely going to be an improvement over Lang.

But this points out, again, why I wish Ted Thompson was willing to gamble once in a while on tier 1/tier 2 OL in free agency. Because now we have, IMO, questions about all five of the OL starting positions:

LT: Will Bulaga make the switch and realize the potential everyone but me sees in him?
LG: Will Sitton play as well at LG as he did at RG?
C: Will EDS be good enough as a season-long starter?
RG: Will Lang play better than mediocre on the right side when he was mediocre on the left.
RT: Will Newhouse play better on the right side than the inconsistent sometimes good/sometimes bad/generally serviceable he played on the left.
And will anyone else show enough to transplant any of the four players who have, IMO, been at best "serviceable w/potential" in the past.

Maybe it's all Campen's fault. I never know how you are supposed to decide between whether its bad coaching or limited ability/bad scouting of "potential," or whatever. I only know that I find myself going through another offseason wondering whether 2013 is going to be another year where the OL is the weak link.

I only know that, unless something improves performance-wise on the line, onne of these years, instead of Rodgers bailing out the OL with his running/scrambling ability, we're going to see him missing several games to an ankle, a knee, or a concussion. Or worse.




And do not be conformed to this world, but be transformed by the renewing of your mind, that you may prove what is that good and acceptable and perfect will of God.
Romans 12:2 (NKJV)
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