macbob
16 years ago
I'm going to forever consider Harrell a questionable pick, regardless of what he does from here on out--even if he makes the pro bowl every year. When you draft a 1st round pick, you expect them to be a starter and make an immediate impact on the team. Here it's been two years, and we still have a player we can't count on to be on the field.

As Thompson and McCarthy said about Deshawn Wynn when they cut him from the team: it's not just talent, it's also about availability. And Harrell's availability has been as bad or worse than Wynn's.
DarkaneRules
16 years ago
availability... i remember that. i'm not angry person, but this angers me. just get it over with. he's not worth the number or the trouble. it's been two years. bust.
Circular Arguments: They are a heck of an annoyance
TheEngineer
16 years ago

availability... i remember that. i'm not angry person, but this angers me. just get it over with. he's not worth the number or the trouble. it's been two years. bust.

"DarkaneRules" wrote:



We have the salary cap and the space, why release him for free?
blank
DarkaneRules
16 years ago
i don't know. i'm no business man 😛
Circular Arguments: They are a heck of an annoyance
dfosterf
16 years ago
Edited because I sound too bitter. :icon_smile:
16 years ago
Raji will be a steal, whoever takes him.
UserPostedImage
dfosterf
16 years ago
This whole subject continues to frustrate the heck out of me. The ramifications of Justin' bustin' will be felt by this organization. One of my personal irritants is what is known as "dead money". To those that are unfamiliar with the term, it is money charged against the salary cap for players no longer on your team. In this instance, many are calling for the termination of Justin Harrell. If it were a simple matter of cutting our losses by releasing him, that option would at least give some satisfaction in the collective frustration department. It is not.

I also keep thinking about the alternatives to trying to "keep faith" that this kid will somehow come back next year and start producing for us. Defensive Tackle is such a complete crap-shoot in the draft, and this year's talent pool especially so. I had to start deleting posts I made here on this thread because imo there are so many opinions/notions about this draft class that would (again, imo) put us in the exact same position we found ourselves in when Ted Thompson took Justin. I am holding the details on this, because it will only work me into a complete froth (again) when folks opine upon it, they are all entitled to their opinion, but I seem to get more and more P.O.'d as it goes...so I'll just STFU about that.

I have said in the past and will repeat that if we are trying to shore up the d-line tackle position for 2009, it better be through FA. This IS quite different than saying we shouldn't draft a DT. I'm just emphasizing that it would be unfair (again) to hold Ted Thompson accountable if you don't see an immediate impact from yet another high draft pick DT. It is the nature of the beast, they are trying to get by/through/off NFL blockers that happen to know their trade. It is rare to have the requisite skill set to do this immediately, regardless of raw physical talent and/or exceptional play at the college level. I think in terms of the relative ease in which physically gifted running backs make the transition, and then go to the opposite extreme with DT's. This is my opinion.

One salary cap tidbit. Justin Harrell was 36,000. more of a cap hit to us this year than was Brett Favre, that is if Justin Harrell's 162,140. worth of "likely to be earned" incentive money gets re-factored back, as it was not earned.(This 162,140 I'm not 100% sure of, cap crap is complicated) Brett Favre costs us 1,400, 000. in dead money through 2010.
which is more than 35 of our players on the active 53 roster, for some perspective.

It will cost 6,392,560. (est. but quite close) dollars to cut Justin in dead money/cap space.

That alone is incentive to hope/pray/whatever that he comes around by the end of training camp.
macbob
16 years ago

This whole subject continues to frustrate the heck out of me. The ramifications of Justin' bustin' will be felt by this organization. One of my personal irritants is what is known as "dead money". To those that are unfamiliar with the term, it is money charged against the salary cap for players no longer on your team. In this instance, many are calling for the termination of Justin Harrell. If it were a simple matter of cutting our losses by releasing him, that option would at least give some satisfaction in the collective frustration department. It is not.

I also keep thinking about the alternatives to trying to "keep faith" that this kid will somehow come back next year and start producing for us. Defensive Tackle is such a complete crap-shoot in the draft, and this year's talent pool especially so. I had to start deleting posts I made here on this thread because imo there are so many opinions/notions about this draft class that would (again, imo) put us in the exact same position we found ourselves in when Ted Thompson took Justin. I am holding the details on this, because it will only work me into a complete froth (again) when folks opine upon it, they are all entitled to their opinion, but I seem to get more and more P.O.'d as it goes...so I'll just STFU about that.

I have said in the past and will repeat that if we are trying to shore up the d-line tackle position for 2009, it better be through FA. This IS quite different than saying we shouldn't draft a DT. I'm just emphasizing that it would be unfair (again) to hold Ted Thompson accountable if you don't see an immediate impact from yet another high draft pick DT. It is the nature of the beast, they are trying to get by/through/off NFL blockers that happen to know their trade. It is rare to have the requisite skill set to do this immediately, regardless of raw physical talent and/or exceptional play at the college level. I think in terms of the relative ease in which physically gifted running backs make the transition, and then go to the opposite extreme with DT's. This is my opinion.

One salary cap tidbit. Justin Harrell was 36,000. more of a cap hit to us this year than was Brett Favre, that is if Justin Harrell's 162,140. worth of "likely to be earned" incentive money gets re-factored back, as it was not earned.(This 162,140 I'm not 100% sure of, cap crap is complicated) Brett Favre costs us 1,400, 000. in dead money through 2010.
which is more than 35 of our players on the active 53 roster, for some perspective.

It will cost 6,392,560. (est. but quite close) dollars to cut Justin in dead money/cap space.

That alone is incentive to hope/pray/whatever that he comes around by the end of training camp.

"dfosterf" wrote:



I agree with you that dumping him is stupid. I just wish Thompson had been a little more risk adverse when he drafted Harrell and gone for more of a sure thing. A first round pick is quite a valuable commodity to take a flier on.
Zero2Cool
16 years ago

I agree with you that dumping him is stupid. I just wish Thompson had been a little more risk adverse when he drafted Harrell and gone for more of a sure thing. A first round pick is quite a valuable commodity to take a flier on.

"macbob" wrote:

Funny. He takes a risk, he gets slammed for it. He doesn't take a risk, he gets slammed for it.
UserPostedImage
bozz_2006
16 years ago
why is it that when a GM doesn't blow the company wad on top-priced FA every season he's too conservative, not risky enough... but when that same GM plays it a little dangerously and risks a draft pick on a player with huge amounts of ability but an injury history, the GM is criticized for being too risky?

People are screaming for him to roll the dice, then he does, and he gets blasted for it.
UserPostedImage
Fan Shout
beast (4h) : Merry Christmas 🎄🎁
beast (12h) : Sounds like no serious injuries from the Saints game and Jacobs and Watson should play in the Vikings game
packerfanoutwest (16h) : both games Watson missed, Packers won
Martha Careful (18h) : I hope all of you have a Merry Christmas!
Mucky Tundra (24-Dec) : Oh I know about Jacobs, I just couldn't pass up an opportunity to mimic Zero lol
buckeyepackfan (24-Dec) : Jacobs was just sat down, Watson re-injured that knee that kept him out 1 game earlier
buckeyepackfan (24-Dec) : I needed .14 that's. .14 points for the whole 4th quarter to win and go to the SB. Lol
Mucky Tundra (24-Dec) : Jacobs gonna be OK???
Zero2Cool (24-Dec) : Watson gonna be OK???
packerfanoutwest (24-Dec) : Inactives tonight for the Pack: Alexander- knee Bullard - ankle Williams - quad Walker -ankle Monk Heath
packerfanoutwest (24-Dec) : No Jaire, but hopefully the front 7 destroys the line of scrimmage & forces Rattler into a few passes to McKinney.
packerfanoutwest (24-Dec) : minny could be #1 seed and the Lions #5 seed
Zero2Cool (23-Dec) : We'd have same Division and Conference records. Strength of schedule we edge them
Zero2Cool (23-Dec) : I just checked. What tie breaker?
bboystyle (23-Dec) : yes its possible but unlikely. If we do get the 5th, we face the NFCS winner
Zero2Cool (23-Dec) : Ahh, ok.
bboystyle (23-Dec) : yes due to tie breaker
Zero2Cool (23-Dec) : I mean, unlikely, yes, but mathematically, 5th is possible by what I'm reading.
Zero2Cool (23-Dec) : If Vikings lose out, Packers win out, Packers get 5th, right?
bboystyle (23-Dec) : Minny isnt going to lose out so 5th seed is out of the equation. We are playing for the 6th or 7th seed which makes no difference
Mucky Tundra (23-Dec) : beast, the ad revenue goes to the broadcast company but they gotta pay to air the game on their channel/network
beast (23-Dec) : If we win tonight the game is still relative in terms of 5th, 6th or 7th seed... win and it's 5th or 6th, lose and it's 6th or 7th
beast (23-Dec) : Mucky, I thought the ad revenue went to the broadcasting companies or the NFL, at least not directly
Zero2Cool (23-Dec) : I think the revenue share is moot, isn't it? That's the CBA an Salary Cap handling that.
bboystyle (23-Dec) : i mean game becomes irrelevant if we win tonight. Just a game where we are trying to play spoilers to Vikings chance at the #1 seed
Mucky Tundra (23-Dec) : beast, I would guess ad revenue from more eyes watching tv
Zero2Cool (23-Dec) : I would think it would hurt the home team because people would have to cancel last minute maybe? i dunno
beast (23-Dec) : I agree that it's BS for fans planning on going to the game. But how does it bring in more money? I'm guessing indirectly?
packerfanoutwest (23-Dec) : bs on flexing the game....they do it for the $$league$$, not the hometown fans
Zero2Cool (23-Dec) : I see what you did there Mucky
Zero2Cool (23-Dec) : dammit. 3:25pm
Zero2Cool (23-Dec) : Packers Vikings flexed to 3:35pm
Mucky Tundra (23-Dec) : Upon receiving the news about Luke Musgrave, I immediately fell to the ground
Mucky Tundra (23-Dec) : Yeah baby!
Zero2Cool (23-Dec) : LUKE MUSGRAVE PLAYING TONIGHT~!~~~~WOWHOAAOHAOAA yah
Zero2Cool (23-Dec) : I wanna kill new QB's ... blitz the crap out of them.
beast (23-Dec) : Barry seemed to get too conservative against new QBs, Hafley doesn't have that issue
Zero2Cool (23-Dec) : However, we seem to struggle vs new QB's
Zero2Cool (23-Dec) : Should be moot point, cuz Packers should win tonight.
packerfanoutwest (23-Dec) : ok I stand corrected
Zero2Cool (23-Dec) : Ok, yes, you are right. I see that now how they get 7th
Zero2Cool (23-Dec) : 5th - Packers win out, Vikings lose out. Maybe?
beast (23-Dec) : Saying no to the 6th lock.
beast (23-Dec) : No, with the Commanders beating the Eagles, Packers could have a good chance of 6th or 7th unless the win out
Zero2Cool (23-Dec) : I think if Packers win, they are locked 6th with chance for 5th.
beast (23-Dec) : But it doesn't matter, as the Packers win surely win one of their remaining games
beast (23-Dec) : This is not complex, just someone doesn't want to believe reality
beast (23-Dec) : We already have told you... if Packers lose all their games (they won't, but if they did), and Buccaneers and Falcons win all theirs
Zero2Cool (23-Dec) : I posted it in that Packers and 1 seed thread
Zero2Cool (23-Dec) : I literally just said it.
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