Wade
  • Wade
  • Veteran Member
12 years ago

Wade, my 9th grade English teacher use to say a good piece of writing should be like a girls skirt, long enough to cover the subject but short enough to make it interesting.

Your whole theory of a world without taxes is really interesting in fairytale land - but in the real world civilizations just needs shit paid for by public funds.

Originally Posted by: DakotaT 




1. Today, your teacher would be chastised or disciplined, perhaps at an emergency school board meeting called for said purpose, for saying such a thing.

2. I actually didn't call for a world without taxes. As long as government is deemed necessary, taxes will be necessary to pay for it. Governments are not self-financing organizations, never have been, never will be.

3. Nor am I so naive to call for a world without government. I don't think we're mature enough for it. (We probably were 225 years ago, but that's another debate.)

4. And so I'm not so naive to call for an end to taxes. But I do think it is important for people to know that whatever public necessity they might choose to "justify" taxes, whatever the taxes might be, those taxes will be inherently destructive of economic value and the production of said value.

And that the more taxes one deems necessary, whatever those taxes might be, will be more destructive.

I think that's important. And I think that it's something we too often forget as we press to fix the "needs" of the moment.





[Well, I was a *bit* shorter that time. [grin1] ]
And do not be conformed to this world, but be transformed by the renewing of your mind, that you may prove what is that good and acceptable and perfect will of God.
Romans 12:2 (NKJV)
DakotaT
12 years ago

1. Today, your teacher would be chastised or disciplined, perhaps at an emergency school board meeting called for said purpose, for saying such a thing.

2. I actually didn't call for a world without taxes. As long as government is deemed necessary, taxes will be necessary to pay for it. Governments are not self-financing organizations, never have been, never will be.

3. Nor am I so naive to call for a world without government. I don't think we're mature enough for it. (We probably were 225 years ago, but that's another debate.)

4. And so I'm not so naive to call for an end to taxes. But I do think it is important for people to know that whatever public necessity they might choose to "justify" taxes, whatever the taxes might be, those taxes will be inherently destructive of economic value and the production of said value.

And that the more taxes one deems necessary, whatever those taxes might be, will be more destructive.

I think that's important. And I think that it's something we too often forget as we press to fix the "needs" of the moment.





[Well, I was a *bit* shorter that time. [grin1] ]

Originally Posted by: Wade 



We still pay less taxes then most civilized countries - and we rank about 20th for health care efficiency. Yeah, the trickle down way has just sucked for us common folk - but hey a small percentage of people did well. That mirage has come to end for those bastards finally.

And Wade, it's not that I don't like what you write - it's that I'm just really too lazy to read it all.
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Porforis
12 years ago

It means capital gains is taxed too low. Yeah, I agree with you, capital gains should be taxed at the 39% rate.

Originally Posted by: DakotaT 



That's not what I said. I said that capital gains should be tied to your income tax rate. A flat 39% for everyone is pretty silly. I also think rates should be lowered across the board and virtually all deductions eliminated to compensate which affects the capital gains rates as well, but that's another story.
4PackGirl
12 years ago
why oh why do i keep entering these 'tax' threads when all it does is irritate me beyond words?!? glutton for punishment apparently.

*sigh

DakotaT
12 years ago

That's not what I said. I said that capital gains should be tied to your income tax rate. A flat 39% for everyone is pretty silly. I also think rates should be lowered across the board and virtually all deductions eliminated to compensate which affects the capital gains rates as well, but that's another story.

Originally Posted by: Porforis 



Well Porforis, the tax code has been exploiting the worker forever, now it's time for all the people making money for nothing to take their turn at getting bent over. Seems perfectly fair to me.
UserPostedImage
Porforis
12 years ago

Well Porforis, the tax code has been exploiting the worker forever, now it's time for all the people making money for nothing to take their turn at getting bent over. Seems perfectly fair to me.

Originally Posted by: DakotaT 



Investments ranging from stocks in publically held companies, to municipal bonds and treasuries do nothing for society, apparently.
Wade
  • Wade
  • Veteran Member
12 years ago

why oh why do i keep entering these 'tax' threads when all it does is irritate me beyond words?!? glutton for punishment apparently.

*sigh

Originally Posted by: 4PackGirl 



Because you're cute?

[grin1]


And do not be conformed to this world, but be transformed by the renewing of your mind, that you may prove what is that good and acceptable and perfect will of God.
Romans 12:2 (NKJV)
DakotaT
12 years ago

Investments ranging from stocks in publically held companies, to municipal bonds and treasuries do nothing for society, apparently.

Originally Posted by: Porforis 



It's still money for doing nothing but taking a small financial risk. But the working man in many professions lay his life on the line daily - why is it we feel right about taxing this type of person at a higher rate than the Mittens of the world. Income is income and there shouldn't be a special rate for the people licking on silver spoons.
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Wade
  • Wade
  • Veteran Member
12 years ago
1.So, should we also get rid of depreciation and allow immediate expensing of all "income-producing assets" of a business? After all, if income from capital investment is just like income from labor, then should not the expenses of putting that capital to work (i.e., the prices paid factories, offices, and machines the investment) be deductible the same way as expenses of putting labor to work (i.e., the price paid to labor (their wages))?

2. Or, since "deductions" = "loopholes for the rich and the big companies", what if we disallow all expenses companies incur entirely, and simply tax corporate revenues at the same rate as we tax the income of wage earners.

3. And then we can tax the dividends received by corporate shareholders, and get even more money to spend on deficit reductions, helping the poor, etc.

I don't have that much of a problem getting rid of differential tax rates for capital gains. Its just another "tax innovation" in the name of social engineering, anyway.

But, IMO, if that's done, it should be done together with abolition of the current way we tax corporate income. I'd make *every* corporate entity pass through its income to shareholders like Subchapter S companies do now, whether there is one shareholder or fifty million. All the dual system does is make more jobs for accountants and tax lawyers.

I'm not sure what I'd do with depreciation rules. Probably wouldn't get rid of them -- now *there* would be a serious *adjustment period* -- but I would greatly simplify them; make everything straight-line only, shortening the "useful life" definitions, and probably putting everything in three categories for "short- (maybe 3 yrs), medium- (8), and long-term (20)?

Tax reform, IMO, is yet another place where the conservatives and liberals end up drawing the wrong battle lines. And the rich and powerful just laugh and hire a few more lawyers and lobbyists.
And do not be conformed to this world, but be transformed by the renewing of your mind, that you may prove what is that good and acceptable and perfect will of God.
Romans 12:2 (NKJV)
DakotaT
12 years ago
The reason for depreciation is to allow deductions over a period of time, because generally a large asset purchased is difficult to write off in one year, but the depreciation could be eliminated if carryforward credits were to be allowed.

Deductions areen't just loopholes for the rich, we all use them; but did the great thinker Paul Ryan ever let us know which deductions were to be hacked away in his protect the wealthy budget?

Dividends are already taxed from C-corps - and it is why you hear people whine about double taxation. The difference in the different corporations has more to do with liability protection than anything.

The more they can do to simplify the tax code the better. Getting rid of AMT is a good thing. But eliminating the cap on Social Security or at least doubling the threshhold would go a long way towards a balanced budget - well that and stop floating our military over the world.
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