Porforis
11 years ago
I think a sour ending has soured our view of many people. During the season, the only coaching-related complaints I heard were at McCarthy for not running enough slants and screens, campen for O line issues. Now, people are questioning Ted Thompson for not drafting big enough defenders, McCarthy's killer instinct, Capers for not adapting well enough, etc. While there's a lot of truth to the complaints, a lot of this is just frustration from this ugly, ugly defeat. There's problems that NEED to be fixed, but the only coaching change I really think might work is if we get rid of Capers for a very good D coordinator that would be willing to run a similar scheme. And I don't think that person exists. Beyond that, let Ted keep drafting (he got a lot of good picks this last draft, sadly several got hurt) and tattoo "Slant!" under one of McCarthy's eyelids, "Run!" under the other and I think we're in good shape.
Cheesey
11 years ago
What happened to the WR going across the middle? Driver always did that, and made some big gains. I don't know why they stopped doing that. It kept the D off of Rodgers, as he would get the ball out fast.
UserPostedImage
play2win
11 years ago
I didn't hear it, but my wife was listening to LeRoy Butler today, and he said after reviewing the film that Capers should be fired. Said SF ran nothing new, and that our defense was really unprepared and made no adjustments at the half.

I hold Butler's opinion in very high regard. Would love to see LeRoy take over as DC!
RajiRoar
11 years ago

For those saying or thinking that we should let Capers go and move back to 4-3. Main question. Can Clay play MLB? Because he is not going to be a DE in the 4-3.

Originally Posted by: PackFanWithTwins 



We could run that funky 4-3, 3-4 hybrid that Seattle runs. It's what clay ran in college.

And if Cullen Jenkins gets cut, he would be the PERFECT DE in the scheme (he has exp as a 4-3 end with us), like Red Bryant.

Problem is, outside of Pete Carroll and Gus Bradly (who is up for HC gigs) I don't know anyone who has exp with the system.

... A guy can dream...

MintBaconDrivel
Dec, 11, 2012 - FOREVER!
doddpower
11 years ago

For those saying or thinking that we should let Capers go and move back to 4-3. Main question. Can Clay play MLB? Because he is not going to be a DE in the 4-3.

Originally Posted by: PackFanWithTwins 



Yeah, if you read my earlier longer post, I stated that CM3 would be the main wildcard in a switch to a 4-3. Other than that, I think the Packers personnel is much better suited for a 4-3. Perhaps CM3 alone would make the argument to stay with a 3-4, I don't know. I assume he would be an OLB on some plays, and rushing the passer on others. It would take some creativity. Nick Perry is much better suited as a 4-3 DE, and he is almost identical to CM3 in size, with the exception of weighing ~10 more lbs (which who knows how accurate weights ever are). Shea McClellin, 4-3 defensive end drafted by the Bears in the 1st round last year, is basically the same size as both CM3 and Perry, and he had a nice season (although he was mostly projected as a 3-4 OLB). Ositadimma "Osi" Umenyiora is 6'3 and 255 lbs as well according to Wikipedia, although it appears as if he's bigger, and I don't think many would argue that he fits the mold of a 4-3 DE fairly well.

The point is, it would take some creativity by the defensive coordinator, but I would think the flexibility of moving CM3 around could work to the defenses advantage, honestly. I don't really buy into the argument that it's impossible for CM3 to be a DE in a 4-3 system. He basically does the same thing on passing downs already, and the minority of base package calls would just require some creativity.
PackFanWithTwins
11 years ago

It really is amazing to me how poorly we are equipped to play the 3-4 defense, and how much better equipped we currently are to play a 4-3 as things stand today. Capers has made some really poor calls with our defense, and especially so when it mattered most over these past two seasons. He was the DC for the worst defense in NFL history.

In his defense, I will say Ted Thompson didn't get the job completely finished when it came to the personnel he has had to work with. Yes, we drafted 6 on his side of the ball last year. However, there was just so much more to do. A GM cannot continually count on first year players to turn one segment or group around. That is what he did with our pass rush, and he failed to adjust after losing his prize piece, Perry, for the season in week 4. He should have signed some insurance opposite Matthews, especially knowing that area of his defense is what hurt the secondary most the previous year.

We should make the switch to the 4-3, like, pronto!

Perry should flourish at DE. Make Matthews your WSLB, the playmaker. Hawk, opposite at SSLB with Bish in the middle. If Hawk proves unable to work out there as a starter, then we'll have a very high priced, experienced backup - but I think he'd be fine with this switch, maybe better. Draft another DE or two, and a good backup NT and we should be set.

If I were Ted, I would load up on both lines this draft, and allow for either a premiere WR or LB talent to be an early choice weighed against the line talent available should one fall.

3-4 defenses call for bigger players than we have, and faster players who are better in coverage as well. To me, Perry is no sure thing as a pass rushing LB in a 3-4 with the coverage responsibilities. Pickett won't last forever, especially if this staff refuses to get the players here for a reasonable rotation. Raji has no backup. None. And, what do we really have at DE?

3 years after winning SB XLV, maybe we will get a pass rush and a more stout defense. Switching to a 4-3 could really help. Can Capers do that effectively? Probably. Then again, maybe not. But, whoever's responsibility this winds up being is going to need more than what Ted gave Capers in 2011 and 2012.

Originally Posted by: play2win 



3-4 does not necessarily call for bigger players. Just look at the 2 most known 3-4 teams. Bal and Pit. Both have had success with it for a long time. Pitt has one big guy in the middle and DE's that are both sub 300 where Bal has 300+ with two 330+. Their LBers are also smaller across the board compared to Baltimore.

It is a matter of the players making plays. Ours up front don't do that consistenlty. We had a high number of Sacks, but it seemed like when we didn't get a sack, we didn't get pressure.
The world needs ditch diggers too Danny!!!
Zero2Cool
11 years ago

Scoring Defense
[list]
  • 2012 11th
  • 2011 19th
  • 2010 2nd
  • 2009 7th[/list]

  • Defensive Passer Rating
    [list]
  • 2012 4th
  • 2011 10th
  • 2010 1st
  • [*]2009 4th[/list]
    UserPostedImage
    wpr
    • wpr
    • Preferred Member
    11 years ago

    I didn't hear it, but my wife was listening to LeRoy Butler today, and he said after reviewing the film that Capers should be fired. Said SF ran nothing new, and that our defense was really unprepared and made no adjustments at the half.

    I hold Butler's opinion in very high regard. Would love to see LeRoy take over as DC!

    Originally Posted by: play2win 



    you just stuck a dagger into the cheesemiester's heart.
    UserPostedImage
    PackFanWithTwins
    11 years ago

    I didn't hear it, but my wife was listening to LeRoy Butler today, and he said after reviewing the film that Capers should be fired. Said SF ran nothing new, and that our defense was really unprepared and made no adjustments at the half.

    I hold Butler's opinion in very high regard. Would love to see LeRoy take over as DC!

    Originally Posted by: play2win 



    Is pretty easy to sit back and say, when your balls are not on the line. I would like to hear what he had to say. What adjustments he thinks would have done something? I've heard terrible analysis from LeRoy along with good.
    The world needs ditch diggers too Danny!!!
    Porforis
    11 years ago

    Is pretty easy to sit back and say, when your balls are not on the line. I would like to hear what he had to say. What adjustments he thinks would have done something? I've heard terrible analysis from LeRoy along with good.

    Originally Posted by: PackFanWithTwins 



    While I would also like to see more details and suggestions and don't think Butler would necessarily make a good coach, it is pretty obvious no significant adjustments were made during the game. Whether anybody else would have done any better with or without adjustments, is a lot harder to say.
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    beast (22h) : Sounds like no serious injuries from the Saints game and Jacobs and Watson should play in the Vikings game
    packerfanoutwest (24-Dec) : both games Watson missed, Packers won
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    Mucky Tundra (24-Dec) : Oh I know about Jacobs, I just couldn't pass up an opportunity to mimic Zero lol
    buckeyepackfan (24-Dec) : Jacobs was just sat down, Watson re-injured that knee that kept him out 1 game earlier
    buckeyepackfan (24-Dec) : I needed .14 that's. .14 points for the whole 4th quarter to win and go to the SB. Lol
    Mucky Tundra (24-Dec) : Jacobs gonna be OK???
    Zero2Cool (24-Dec) : Watson gonna be OK???
    packerfanoutwest (24-Dec) : Inactives tonight for the Pack: Alexander- knee Bullard - ankle Williams - quad Walker -ankle Monk Heath
    packerfanoutwest (24-Dec) : No Jaire, but hopefully the front 7 destroys the line of scrimmage & forces Rattler into a few passes to McKinney.
    packerfanoutwest (24-Dec) : minny could be #1 seed and the Lions #5 seed
    Zero2Cool (23-Dec) : We'd have same Division and Conference records. Strength of schedule we edge them
    Zero2Cool (23-Dec) : I just checked. What tie breaker?
    bboystyle (23-Dec) : yes its possible but unlikely. If we do get the 5th, we face the NFCS winner
    Zero2Cool (23-Dec) : Ahh, ok.
    bboystyle (23-Dec) : yes due to tie breaker
    Zero2Cool (23-Dec) : I mean, unlikely, yes, but mathematically, 5th is possible by what I'm reading.
    Zero2Cool (23-Dec) : If Vikings lose out, Packers win out, Packers get 5th, right?
    bboystyle (23-Dec) : Minny isnt going to lose out so 5th seed is out of the equation. We are playing for the 6th or 7th seed which makes no difference
    Mucky Tundra (23-Dec) : beast, the ad revenue goes to the broadcast company but they gotta pay to air the game on their channel/network
    beast (23-Dec) : If we win tonight the game is still relative in terms of 5th, 6th or 7th seed... win and it's 5th or 6th, lose and it's 6th or 7th
    beast (23-Dec) : Mucky, I thought the ad revenue went to the broadcasting companies or the NFL, at least not directly
    Zero2Cool (23-Dec) : I think the revenue share is moot, isn't it? That's the CBA an Salary Cap handling that.
    bboystyle (23-Dec) : i mean game becomes irrelevant if we win tonight. Just a game where we are trying to play spoilers to Vikings chance at the #1 seed
    Mucky Tundra (23-Dec) : beast, I would guess ad revenue from more eyes watching tv
    Zero2Cool (23-Dec) : I would think it would hurt the home team because people would have to cancel last minute maybe? i dunno
    beast (23-Dec) : I agree that it's BS for fans planning on going to the game. But how does it bring in more money? I'm guessing indirectly?
    packerfanoutwest (23-Dec) : bs on flexing the game....they do it for the $$league$$, not the hometown fans
    Zero2Cool (23-Dec) : I see what you did there Mucky
    Zero2Cool (23-Dec) : dammit. 3:25pm
    Zero2Cool (23-Dec) : Packers Vikings flexed to 3:35pm
    Mucky Tundra (23-Dec) : Upon receiving the news about Luke Musgrave, I immediately fell to the ground
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    Zero2Cool (23-Dec) : LUKE MUSGRAVE PLAYING TONIGHT~!~~~~WOWHOAAOHAOAA yah
    Zero2Cool (23-Dec) : I wanna kill new QB's ... blitz the crap out of them.
    beast (23-Dec) : Barry seemed to get too conservative against new QBs, Hafley doesn't have that issue
    Zero2Cool (23-Dec) : However, we seem to struggle vs new QB's
    Zero2Cool (23-Dec) : Should be moot point, cuz Packers should win tonight.
    packerfanoutwest (23-Dec) : ok I stand corrected
    Zero2Cool (23-Dec) : Ok, yes, you are right. I see that now how they get 7th
    Zero2Cool (23-Dec) : 5th - Packers win out, Vikings lose out. Maybe?
    beast (23-Dec) : Saying no to the 6th lock.
    beast (23-Dec) : No, with the Commanders beating the Eagles, Packers could have a good chance of 6th or 7th unless the win out
    Zero2Cool (23-Dec) : I think if Packers win, they are locked 6th with chance for 5th.
    beast (23-Dec) : But it doesn't matter, as the Packers win surely win one of their remaining games
    beast (23-Dec) : This is not complex, just someone doesn't want to believe reality
    beast (23-Dec) : We already have told you... if Packers lose all their games (they won't, but if they did), and Buccaneers and Falcons win all theirs
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