wpr
  • wpr
  • Preferred Member
12 years ago

Frankly, I have seen nothing to change the opinions I set forth and updates I recommended a year ago. Rather than go on again at length and bore everyone, I'll just tell everyone to re-read what I said there if they are interested.

I will only say that I'm even less optimistic than I was then.

While those of you who have pointed out that "we're a republic, not a democracy" are correct as a matter of original intent, I don't think that's relevant any more. Because most Americans (a) don't know the difference, (b) believe in populist/progressivist enable-the-power-of-all "democracy" notions far more than they believe in Madisonian/Jeffersonian "limitation-the-power-of-any" constitutional republicanism, or (c) both.

Any constitutional change today, whether tinkering through individual amendments or radical change through open constitutional convention, facebooking, whatever, is going to follow paths formed from the ideals of populist/progressive/social democracy. Not the paths of Burke/Paine/Madison/Jefferson republicanism.

And we've got far too many people who are perfectly capable of being the next Maximilien François Marie Isidore de Robespierre.

I'm not sure we have any who are capable of being George Washington.

Originally Posted by: Wade 



Amen brother. And that is a shame.
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Pack93z
12 years ago
Update the constitution for what?

Like the current and recent administrations adhere to it anyway. 🤦
"The oranges are dry; the apples are mealy; and the papayas... I don't know what's going on with the papayas!"
Zero2Cool
12 years ago

Update the constitution for what?

Like the current and recent administrations adhere to it anyway. #-o

Originally Posted by: Pack93z 



update it to ... the President has to get the Packers logo tattooed on their forehead and pledge allegiance to green and gold everyday when he wakes up.
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PackFanWithTwins
12 years ago

Indirectly, yes. The number of Electoral Votes per state is equal to the number of representatives and senators that state sends to Washington, D.C.

By the way, I forgot to mention in my previous post that it is the states' own fault that the Electoral College is not as democratic as it could be. In almost every state, Electoral College votes are apportioned on a "winner-take-all" basis, rather than proportionately according to the popular vote in that state. As far as I know, these rules are established by the state electoral commissions, as opposed to being written into the state constitutions, and thus could be amended at will. If the states wanted to make the Electoral College more responsive to the popular vote, they could accomplish that quite easily.

Originally Posted by: Nonstopdrivel 



I have said for a while that the all or none electoral systems most states use isn't the way it should be.

Use CA for example, nobody campaigns there because it always goes Democrat. When watching the results live. When the CA polls closed, they gave Obama the win the next minute. 55 electoral votes, BAM. What should be done is, look at look at how much of the popular vote each candidate gets, and using percentage, divide and give the electorals.

Obama 59.3%, or 32 electorals.
Romney 38.3%, or 21 electorals.

Which is 53 leaving 2 unallocated. Any unallocated electorals would go to whoever wins the state popular vote.

This should remove the "My vote doesn't count" line of thinking because one vote could be the difference between getting 21 or 22 electoral votes. It would make each state important so candidates would need to go to them all.

The thing is, I've gone back and through Reagan, all results would have been the same. Close in most cases but still the same results.
The world needs ditch diggers too Danny!!!
vikesrule
12 years ago

I have said for a while that the all or none electoral systems most states use isn't the way it should be.
...The thing is, I've gone back and through Reagan, all results would have been the same. Close in most cases but still the same results.

Originally Posted by: PackFanWithTwins 



Hot damn, item #1 is something that I agree with PackFanWithTwins on.
Document this one folks, it will probably be one of the very few time that this occurs.[grin1]


I'd like to see your breakdown of the 2000 Presidential election.

Wade
  • Wade
  • Veteran Member
12 years ago

I have said for a while that the all or none electoral systems most states use isn't the way it should be.

Use CA for example, nobody campaigns there because it always goes Democrat. When watching the results live. When the CA polls closed, they gave Obama the win the next minute. 55 electoral votes, BAM. What should be done is, look at look at how much of the popular vote each candidate gets, and using percentage, divide and give the electorals.

Obama 59.3%, or 32 electorals.
Romney 38.3%, or 21 electorals.

Which is 53 leaving 2 unallocated. Any unallocated electorals would go to whoever wins the state popular vote.

This should remove the "My vote doesn't count" line of thinking because one vote could be the difference between getting 21 or 22 electoral votes. It would make each state important so candidates would need to go to them all.

The thing is, I've gone back and through Reagan, all results would have been the same. Close in most cases but still the same results.

Originally Posted by: PackFanWithTwins 



I'm curious. Does your method here take into account that voting patterns might be different if people knew going in that electoral votes would be proportionately assigned? Would the popular vote in California fall into the same percentages if they knew vote counting would take more than a minute after poll closing?

And do not be conformed to this world, but be transformed by the renewing of your mind, that you may prove what is that good and acceptable and perfect will of God.
Romans 12:2 (NKJV)
PackFanWithTwins
12 years ago

I'm curious. Does your method here take into account that voting patterns might be different if people knew going in that electoral votes would be proportionately assigned? Would the popular vote in California fall into the same percentages if they knew vote counting would take more than a minute after poll closing?

Originally Posted by: Wade 



I don't think the method cares :)

There is no way to tell what the percentages would do. My guess is, they would not change a bunch. I just see it as making each vote more important and each state more equal in importance. I think it would help with better turnout, and keeping more of the population involved. There would be no excuse for saying, I'm not voting because my state always does this or that.
The world needs ditch diggers too Danny!!!
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