[2012] Green Bay Packers at Houston Texans· Page 11

Rios39
Member

12 years ago

One has to ask though if we are actually better off with Pickett at NT. Usually the NT is known for getting a bit of push but mostly swallowing the run game. Last night was the most dominant we have been against the run. Last year we were "ok" against the run in 2010 with Raji at NT we did not do the best verse the run but had a great pass rush, in 2009 with Pickett at NT I believe we gave up the least amount of rushing yards in football.

If he's not going to be sucking up the middle of the field on run downs and his pass rush is "good" not great, maybe it's time to move him into the DE area and see if he can get some favorable matchups that way.

I guess we will see how he looks when he gets back. Our push up the middle was ok, our rush up the field was great but I've never seen the line of scrimmage get pushed so consistently into the offense side of the field against a quality team, so frequently. While playing on the road where you don't really get a jump on the snap.

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macbob
Veteran Member

12 years ago

#102

Sort of sarcastic.

This is more of a response to the "we need a good RB" myth that has been harped on consistently by football fans. We don't need a "good" RB. We just need NFL caliber RBs, which means somewhere in the top 100 of the position. Yes, that's all we really need.

A good OL should open up the holes where any of the top 100 RBs in the NFL could get 3+ ypc, and that's pretty much all you need. Top $$$ should be spent on D, as from my research, D wins Championships, and secondary in importance is an elite QB. RBs don't matter, and don't even figure in the equation of who wins Championships.

Through my research, I found I was wrong about the %s of pass/run. I thought we could go 65/35. You can't do that all season long. High 50s is about the right %. And too much rushing (50% or more) is also a bad thing.

In the game last night, we got to see Green get 22 carries. The 67 yards would actually be considered "mediocre," but that's fine. Mediocre RBs are ideal as like I've said, the yards don't matter. All that matters are the carries.

You'll get the yards if you have a decent OL. Benson, Green, Starks, Ryan Grant, and probably Brandon Seine could all be thrown back there and the game results will be the same.

Green did what he was supposed to do - hold on to the football and get 3+ ypc. That's it. That's all you really need from a RB.

From a Packers' perspective, bonus if the RB can catch passes and block.

Originally Posted by: zombieslayer

Zombie--a truly awesome post. Only two things I would have said slightly differently:

1) Top 100 RB is a 3rd stringer on the worst team in the NFL. I think you need a little higher quality than that for your starter, but agree 100% that there are better things to spend your $$ on than an elite RB.

2) Attempts/carries matter most, but yards do matter. If everytime you run you get -2 yds the defense isn't going to honor the run as much as if you get 7 yds per carry. You don't need to lead the league in rushing, but need to have a certain level of success, and I think 3 yds per carry is probably about the minimum you need to keep the D honest.

=d> =d> =d> =d> =d>

macbob
Veteran Member

12 years ago

#103

Do you guys think that Raji is overvalued as a run defender? Pickett seemed much more effective in there and even our nickel seems well equipped to step up over that with Neal and Worthy together.

Originally Posted by: DarkaneRules

I like Pickett moved back to NT--that's his natural position--and Raji playing DE. Think we're a better line when we're like that. Move Raji inside on obvious passing downs, but otherwise we'd have Perry and Raji over on the opposite side of CM3, and I think that would give an offense all kinds of fits.

DakotaT
Select Member

12 years ago

#104

Raji's not known as a run defender. He's a pass rushing NT.

Pickett is the run stuffer of the group.

Originally Posted by: nerdmann

They should just let Pickett play the nose and then bring Raji in with Worthy when they want to rush 4.

We play some funky formations and are very rarely in our 3-4 base. What I think is stupid is playing Pickett at end. It makes no fucking sense, especially when C.J. Wilson and Neal are playing better.

zombieslayer
Registered

12 years ago

#105

Originally Posted by: macbob

Thanks Macbob. Almost brought a tear to my eye. 😍 😍

1) OK, maybe top 50 would be better. And don't get me wrong. I don't hate RBs. My favorite non-Packer ever was Wallie Payton. My favorite non-Packer today is Adrian Peterson. This is just what the research has been telling me.

2) Well, only a real bad back is gonna get -2 yards a carry. Even a 3rd string RB should get you at least 2.5 ypc. Unless of course your OL sucks and in that case, your QB is probably dead anyways and you won't get that far, even with an elite D. You still need some offense.

But you really don't need success. There is no historical difference since the 80s (it takes forever to sift through stats so I don't go back very far) between having the #1 rushing team and the #20 rushing team. The stand out elite rushing team who was dominant were the 90s Cows and the 90s Broncos. But there have been so many really bad teams at running the ball who have won Championships that they statistically even out the 90s Broncos and Cows.

So once again, in importance is:
1) elite D,
2) elite QB

And that's pretty much it. Of course a real bad OL gets your QB killed so that's somewhere up there in importance.

EDIT: Just in case you were wondering (which I'm sure you were) how our recent SB winning teams were in rushing, here ya go:
1996 Packers - Out of 30 teams, 14th in attempts, 11 in yards, 19th in TDs
2010 Packers - Out of 32 teams, 20th in attempts, 24th in yards, 19th in TDs

To be honest, I was surprised we ran that well in 1996. I thought we'd be in the bottom 10. But then I forgot that we had a dual RB system that year.

My man Donald Driver

(thanks to Pack93z for the pic)
2010 will be seen as the beginning of the new Packers dynasty. 🇹🇹 🇲🇲 🇦🇷

Wade
Veteran Member

12 years ago

#106

Do you guys think that Raji is overvalued as a run defender? Pickett seemed much more effective in there and even our nickel seems well equipped to step up over that with Neal and Worthy together.

Originally Posted by: DarkaneRules

Yes.

IMO a nose tackle should routinely occupy two blockers. Far too often, Raji was getting stoned by just one.

Pickett's only problem is that with his age/weight, he can't do the volume of plays without wearing down.

I have to admit Worthy has looked better than I thought he would.

And do not be conformed to this world, but be transformed by the renewing of your mind, that you may prove what is that good and acceptable and perfect will of God.
Romans 12:2 (NKJV)

Wade
Veteran Member

12 years ago

#107

Raji's not known as a run defender. He's a pass rushing NT.

Pickett is the run stuffer of the group.

Originally Posted by: nerdmann

Except that Raji hasn't been doing either one particularly well (except for the second half of 2010).

And do not be conformed to this world, but be transformed by the renewing of your mind, that you may prove what is that good and acceptable and perfect will of God.
Romans 12:2 (NKJV)

zombieslayer
Registered

12 years ago

#108

Raji has been solid when Cullen Jenkins was in the lineup. Post-Cullen Jenkins, he's been quite average; definitely not first round material. I think one of 🇹🇹's priorities in the 2012 off-season (via draft, trade, waivers, or whatever) would be to replace Cullen Jenkins.

I've said elsewhere that the 2011 D was so bad that it may take 2 off-seasons to bring us back to elite status (as we were in 2010).

My man Donald Driver

(thanks to Pack93z for the pic)
2010 will be seen as the beginning of the new Packers dynasty. 🇹🇹 🇲🇲 🇦🇷

DarkaneRules
Veteran Member

12 years ago

#109

I see a Raji dilemma honestly. Wish we had another Pickett. Raji is not that. Thought he would be.

Circular Arguments: They are a heck of an annoyance

Rios39
Member

12 years ago

#110

Originally Posted by: zombieslayer

Well we have Worthy and Daniels as well as Wilson doing good in pass rush. What we need more of is a stout MLB. Bishop is without a doubt solid and Hawk is playing much more fast and aggressive/except in coverage. So I think we either draft a stout MLB Safety or maybe CB. All in all I'm happy with our defense but when we have to rely on our MLB's to cover. When the right plays have been called we have looked good.

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Zero2Cool (13h) : sounds like Packers don't get good compensation, Jaire staying

dfosterf (17h) : Nobody coming up with a keep, but at x amount

dfosterf (17h) : Trade, cut or keep

dfosterf (18h) : that from Jaire

dfosterf (18h) : My guess is the Packers floated the concept of a reworked contract via his agent and agent got a f'

Zero2Cool (18h) : Yes, and that is why I think Rob worded it how he did. Rather than say "agent"

dfosterf (18h) : Same laws apply. Agent must present such an offer to Jaire. Cannot accept or reject without presenting it

Zero2Cool (18h) : I'm thinking that is why Rob worded it how he did.

dfosterf (18h) : The Packers can certainly still make the offer to the agent

dfosterf (18h) : Laws of agency and definition of fiduciary responsibility

dfosterf (18h) : Jaire is open to a reduced contract without Jaire's permission

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Zero2Cool (18h) : That someone ... likely the agent.

Zero2Cool (18h) : So, Jaire has not been offered nor rejected a pay reduction, but someone says he'd decline.

Zero2Cool (18h) : Demovksy says t was direct communication with someone familiar with Jaire’s line of thinking at that moment.

Zero2Cool (19h) : Demovsky just replied to me a bit ago. Jaire hasn't said it.

dfosterf (20h) : Of course, that depends on the definition of "we"

dfosterf (20h) : We have been told that they haven't because he wouldn't accept it. I submit we don't know that

dfosterf (20h) : What is the downside in making a calculated reduced offer to Jaire?

Zero2Cool (15-Apr) : Packers are receiving interest in Jaire Alexander but a trade is not imminent

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dfosterf (15-Apr) : I may have to move

dfosterf (15-Apr) : My wife just told the ancient Japanese sushi dude not enough rice under his fish

Zero2Cool (14-Apr) : I think a dozen is what I need

dfosterf (14-Apr) : Go fund me for this purpose just might work. A dozen nurses show up at 1265 to provide mental health assistance.

dfosterf (14-Apr) : Maybe send a crew of Angels to the Packers draft room on draft day.

Zero2Cool (14-Apr) : I am the Angel that gets visited.

dfosterf (14-Apr) : Visiting Angels has a pretty good reputation

Zero2Cool (14-Apr) : what

Martha Careful (14-Apr) : WINNING IT, not someone else losing it. The best victory though was re-uniting with his wife

Martha Careful (14-Apr) : The manner in which he won it was just amazing and wonderful. First blowing the lead then getting back, then blowing it. But ultimately

Zero2Cool (12-Apr) : I'm guessing since the thumb was broken, he wasn't feeling it.

dfosterf (10-Apr) : Looking for guidance. Not feeling the thumb.

Mucky Tundra (10-Apr) : If they knew about it or not

Mucky Tundra (10-Apr) : I don't recall that he did which is why I asked.

Zero2Cool (10-Apr) : Guessing they probably knew. Did he have cast or something on?

Mucky Tundra (10-Apr) : Did they know that at the time or was that something the realized afterwards?

Zero2Cool (9-Apr) : Van Ness played most of season with broken thumb

wpr (9-Apr) : yay

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Mucky Tundra (8-Apr) : *CHOMP CHOMP CHOMP*

Zero2Cool (2-Apr) : WR who said he'd break Xavier Worthy 40 time...and ran slower than you

Mucky Tundra (2-Apr) : Who?

Zero2Cool (2-Apr) : Texas’ WR Isaiah Bond is scheduled to visit the Bills, Browns, Chiefs, Falcons, Packers and Titans starting next week.

Zero2Cool (2-Apr) : Spotting ball isn't changing, only measuring distance is, Which wasn't the issue.

Zero2Cool (2-Apr) : The spotting of the ball IS the issue. Not the chain gang.

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