Rios39
12 years ago
One has to ask though if we are actually better off with Pickett at NT. Usually the NT is known for getting a bit of push but mostly swallowing the run game. Last night was the most dominant we have been against the run. Last year we were "ok" against the run in 2010 with Raji at NT we did not do the best verse the run but had a great pass rush, in 2009 with Pickett at NT I believe we gave up the least amount of rushing yards in football.

If he's not going to be sucking up the middle of the field on run downs and his pass rush is "good" not great, maybe it's time to move him into the DE area and see if he can get some favorable matchups that way.

I guess we will see how he looks when he gets back. Our push up the middle was ok, our rush up the field was great but I've never seen the line of scrimmage get pushed so consistently into the offense side of the field against a quality team, so frequently. While playing on the road where you don't really get a jump on the snap.
blank
macbob
12 years ago

Sort of sarcastic.

This is more of a response to the "we need a good RB" myth that has been harped on consistently by football fans. We don't need a "good" RB. We just need NFL caliber RBs, which means somewhere in the top 100 of the position. Yes, that's all we really need.

A good OL should open up the holes where any of the top 100 RBs in the NFL could get 3+ ypc, and that's pretty much all you need. Top $$$ should be spent on D, as from my research, D wins Championships, and secondary in importance is an elite QB. RBs don't matter, and don't even figure in the equation of who wins Championships.

Through my research, I found I was wrong about the %s of pass/run. I thought we could go 65/35. You can't do that all season long. High 50s is about the right %. And too much rushing (50% or more) is also a bad thing.

In the game last night, we got to see Green get 22 carries. The 67 yards would actually be considered "mediocre," but that's fine. Mediocre RBs are ideal as like I've said, the yards don't matter. All that matters are the carries.

You'll get the yards if you have a decent OL. Benson, Green, Starks, Ryan Grant, and probably Brandon Seine could all be thrown back there and the game results will be the same.

Green did what he was supposed to do - hold on to the football and get 3+ ypc. That's it. That's all you really need from a RB.

From a Packers' perspective, bonus if the RB can catch passes and block.

Originally Posted by: zombieslayer 



Zombie--a truly awesome post. Only two things I would have said slightly differently:

1) Top 100 RB is a 3rd stringer on the worst team in the NFL. I think you need a little higher quality than that for your starter, but agree 100% that there are better things to spend your $$ on than an elite RB.

2) Attempts/carries matter most, but yards do matter. If everytime you run you get -2 yds the defense isn't going to honor the run as much as if you get 7 yds per carry. You don't need to lead the league in rushing, but need to have a certain level of success, and I think 3 yds per carry is probably about the minimum you need to keep the D honest.

=d> =d> =d> =d> =d>
macbob
12 years ago

Do you guys think that Raji is overvalued as a run defender? Pickett seemed much more effective in there and even our nickel seems well equipped to step up over that with Neal and Worthy together.

Originally Posted by: DarkaneRules 



I like Pickett moved back to NT--that's his natural position--and Raji playing DE. Think we're a better line when we're like that. Move Raji inside on obvious passing downs, but otherwise we'd have Perry and Raji over on the opposite side of CM3, and I think that would give an offense all kinds of fits.
DakotaT
12 years ago

Raji's not known as a run defender. He's a pass rushing NT.

Pickett is the run stuffer of the group.

Originally Posted by: nerdmann 



They should just let Pickett play the nose and then bring Raji in with Worthy when they want to rush 4.

We play some funky formations and are very rarely in our 3-4 base. What I think is stupid is playing Pickett at end. It makes no fucking sense, especially when C.J. Wilson and Neal are playing better.
UserPostedImage
zombieslayer
12 years ago

Zombie--a truly awesome post. Only two things I would have said slightly differently:

1) Top 100 RB is a 3rd stringer on the worst team in the NFL. I think you need a little higher quality than that for your starter, but agree 100% that there are better things to spend your $$ on than an elite RB.

2) Attempts/carries matter most, but yards do matter. If everytime you run you get -2 yds the defense isn't going to honor the run as much as if you get 7 yds per carry. You don't need to lead the league in rushing, but need to have a certain level of success, and I think 3 yds per carry is probably about the minimum you need to keep the D honest.

=d> =d> =d> =d> =d>

Originally Posted by: macbob 



Thanks Macbob. Almost brought a tear to my eye. 😍 😍

1) OK, maybe top 50 would be better. And don't get me wrong. I don't hate RBs. My favorite non-Packer ever was Wallie Payton. My favorite non-Packer today is Adrian Peterson. This is just what the research has been telling me.

2) Well, only a real bad back is gonna get -2 yards a carry. Even a 3rd string RB should get you at least 2.5 ypc. Unless of course your OL sucks and in that case, your QB is probably dead anyways and you won't get that far, even with an elite D. You still need some offense.

But you really don't need success. There is no historical difference since the 80s (it takes forever to sift through stats so I don't go back very far) between having the #1 rushing team and the #20 rushing team. The stand out elite rushing team who was dominant were the 90s Cows and the 90s Broncos. But there have been so many really bad teams at running the ball who have won Championships that they statistically even out the 90s Broncos and Cows.

So once again, in importance is:
1) elite D,
2) elite QB

And that's pretty much it. Of course a real bad OL gets your QB killed so that's somewhere up there in importance.


EDIT: Just in case you were wondering (which I'm sure you were) how our recent SB winning teams were in rushing, here ya go:
1996 Packers - Out of 30 teams, 14th in attempts, 11 in yards, 19th in TDs
2010 Packers - Out of 32 teams, 20th in attempts, 24th in yards, 19th in TDs

To be honest, I was surprised we ran that well in 1996. I thought we'd be in the bottom 10. But then I forgot that we had a dual RB system that year.
My man Donald Driver
UserPostedImage
(thanks to Pack93z for the pic)
2010 will be seen as the beginning of the new Packers dynasty. 🇹🇹 🇲🇲 🇦🇷
Wade
  • Wade
  • Veteran Member
12 years ago

Do you guys think that Raji is overvalued as a run defender? Pickett seemed much more effective in there and even our nickel seems well equipped to step up over that with Neal and Worthy together.

Originally Posted by: DarkaneRules 



Yes.

IMO a nose tackle should routinely occupy two blockers. Far too often, Raji was getting stoned by just one.

Pickett's only problem is that with his age/weight, he can't do the volume of plays without wearing down.

I have to admit Worthy has looked better than I thought he would.


And do not be conformed to this world, but be transformed by the renewing of your mind, that you may prove what is that good and acceptable and perfect will of God.
Romans 12:2 (NKJV)
Wade
  • Wade
  • Veteran Member
12 years ago

Raji's not known as a run defender. He's a pass rushing NT.

Pickett is the run stuffer of the group.

Originally Posted by: nerdmann 



Except that Raji hasn't been doing either one particularly well (except for the second half of 2010).


And do not be conformed to this world, but be transformed by the renewing of your mind, that you may prove what is that good and acceptable and perfect will of God.
Romans 12:2 (NKJV)
zombieslayer
12 years ago
Raji has been solid when Cullen Jenkins was in the lineup. Post-Cullen Jenkins, he's been quite average; definitely not first round material. I think one of 🇹🇹's priorities in the 2012 off-season (via draft, trade, waivers, or whatever) would be to replace Cullen Jenkins.

I've said elsewhere that the 2011 D was so bad that it may take 2 off-seasons to bring us back to elite status (as we were in 2010).
My man Donald Driver
UserPostedImage
(thanks to Pack93z for the pic)
2010 will be seen as the beginning of the new Packers dynasty. 🇹🇹 🇲🇲 🇦🇷
DarkaneRules
12 years ago
I see a Raji dilemma honestly. Wish we had another Pickett. Raji is not that. Thought he would be.
Circular Arguments: They are a heck of an annoyance
Rios39
12 years ago

Raji has been solid when Cullen Jenkins was in the lineup. Post-Cullen Jenkins, he's been quite average; definitely not first round material. I think one of 🇹🇹's priorities in the 2012 off-season (via draft, trade, waivers, or whatever) would be to replace Cullen Jenkins.

I've said elsewhere that the 2011 D was so bad that it may take 2 off-seasons to bring us back to elite status (as we were in 2010).

Originally Posted by: zombieslayer 



Well we have Worthy and Daniels as well as Wilson doing good in pass rush. What we need more of is a stout MLB. Bishop is without a doubt solid and Hawk is playing much more fast and aggressive/except in coverage. So I think we either draft a stout MLB Safety or maybe CB. All in all I'm happy with our defense but when we have to rely on our MLB's to cover. When the right plays have been called we have looked good.
blank
Fan Shout
Mucky Tundra (4h) : @AaronNagler · 2m Both Jordan Love and Malik Willis were Limited participants at Packers practice today.
Zero2Cool (6h) : Johnson didn't make it until 2020. Ring 2023. 🤷 Personally, he should have been in years prior to Hall.
Zero2Cool (6h) : HUMP DAY
beast (7h) : Guys that have a good shot at making the NFL Hall of Fame usually get into their teams pretty fast
beast (7h) : Yeah, but is Kampman and the others in the NFL Hall of Fame?
Zero2Cool (7h) : Johnson was Hall of Fame, 2020. Should haev been in Ring a year later, not three years.
Zero2Cool (7h) : I could be wrong there though
Zero2Cool (7h) : Guys like Kampman, Tim Harris, Al Harris, etc all over 15 years. Hall of Fame is 5 year wait
Zero2Cool (7h) : I guess I see players in Packers Hall come way later
beast (7h) : Yeah, usually teams hall of fames are a much lower bar than the NFL
Zero2Cool (7h) : is it uncommon for Hall before Ring?
Zero2Cool (7h) : S Xavier McKinney named first-team All-Pro by NFLPA
beast (9h) : I missed it, sorry, but he got into the NFL Hall of Fame years before that
Zero2Cool (9h) : Jones took his sweet ole time!
Zero2Cool (9h) : Yeah, he's in the ring of honor, just saw video and his name is up there
Zero2Cool (9h) : Didn't they have a thing in 2023 for Jimmy's ring of honor? I swear I saw it
beast (9h) : Though if they're legitimately trying to re-sign MM, then it makes sense.
beast (9h) : Jerry Jones still hasn't put Jimmy Johnson in the Ring of Honor, but he's in the NFL's Hall of Fame, Jones is petty
Mucky Tundra (21h) : Unless the Cowboys are planning an extension, seems kinda petty
beast (23h) : Cowboys denied Bears request
Mucky Tundra (6-Jan) : From what I'm reading, MM is under contract through the 14th of January; after that he's free game
Zero2Cool (6-Jan) : McCarthy let go or not extended??
Mucky Tundra (6-Jan) : Chicago Bears have asked the Dallas Cowboys permission to interview Mike McCarthy for head coaching vacancy
Zero2Cool (6-Jan) : The winners page that is
Zero2Cool (6-Jan) : I was not hoping for that. It messes up the page lol
beast (6-Jan) : Thank you, and I was really opening we were going to get 4 or more tied for the top 3.
beast (6-Jan) : Thank you, and I was really opening we were going to get 4 or more tied for the top 3.
beast (6-Jan) : Thank you, and I was really opening we were going to get 4 or more tied for the top 3
Zero2Cool (6-Jan) : congrats beast on 2024 !
Zero2Cool (6-Jan) : congrats porky on winning 2023 pick'em! (oops sorry)
Zero2Cool (6-Jan) : Packers have $60M+ of 2025 cap space on paper TODAY.
Mucky Tundra (6-Jan) : Missed FG into a Lions TD; that'll do pig, that'll do
Mucky Tundra (6-Jan) : That might be it for the Vikings
Mucky Tundra (6-Jan) : Oh so the refs do know what intentional grounding is
Mucky Tundra (6-Jan) : what the hell was that Goff?! Not much pressure and he just air mails it to Harrison
Mucky Tundra (6-Jan) : They really need to to get rid of the auto first down for illegal contact
Martha Careful (6-Jan) : watching the Vikings and Lions it's understandable why they swept the Packers. So much better product
Mucky Tundra (6-Jan) : Even when GB got pressure he was throwing darts; vs no pressure on that last pass he just air mails an open guy
Zero2Cool (6-Jan) : didn't have guys in his face ... pressure makes difference
Mucky Tundra (6-Jan) : Where was this Darnold vs GB?
Mucky Tundra (6-Jan) : BALL DON'T LIE
Mucky Tundra (6-Jan) : how was that not a safety? Goff throws it at an offensive lineman
Mucky Tundra (6-Jan) : Zero, I thought that was a given! ;)
Mucky Tundra (6-Jan) : Zero I looked through earlier and noticed the same thing. Bonkers year. I just wonder if beast put any money on games
Zero2Cool (6-Jan) : I'm hoping for BLOODBATH. Pummel one another.
Zero2Cool (6-Jan) : 8 people in pick'em would have won any year with their total lol
Mucky Tundra (6-Jan) : I'm rooting for the Lions to lose.
Mucky Tundra (6-Jan) : God help me but I'm rooting for the Vikings to...Vikings to...Christ I can't say it
Zero2Cool (6-Jan) : 4 td for Rodgers
Zero2Cool (6-Jan) : Chiefs got shutout
Please sign in to use Fan Shout
2024 Packers Schedule
Friday, Sep 6 @ 7:15 PM
Eagles
Sunday, Sep 15 @ 12:00 PM
COLTS
Sunday, Sep 22 @ 12:00 PM
Titans
Sunday, Sep 29 @ 12:00 PM
VIKINGS
Sunday, Oct 6 @ 3:25 PM
Rams
Sunday, Oct 13 @ 12:00 PM
CARDINALS
Sunday, Oct 20 @ 12:00 PM
TEXANS
Sunday, Oct 27 @ 12:00 PM
Jaguars
Sunday, Nov 3 @ 3:25 PM
LIONS
Sunday, Nov 17 @ 12:00 PM
Bears
Sunday, Nov 24 @ 3:25 PM
49ERS
Thursday, Nov 28 @ 7:20 PM
DOLPHINS
Thursday, Dec 5 @ 7:15 PM
Lions
Sunday, Dec 15 @ 7:20 PM
Seahawks
Monday, Dec 23 @ 7:15 PM
SAINTS
Sunday, Dec 29 @ 3:25 PM
Vikings
Sunday, Jan 5 @ 12:00 PM
BEARS
Recent Topics
5h / Green Bay Packers Talk / beast

20h / Around The NFL / beast

7-Jan / Fantasy Sports Talk / wpr

7-Jan / Green Bay Packers Talk / Zero2Cool

7-Jan / Fantasy Sports Talk / Zero2Cool

6-Jan / Green Bay Packers Talk / bboystyle

6-Jan / Green Bay Packers Talk / Martha Careful

6-Jan / Green Bay Packers Talk / Martha Careful

6-Jan / Green Bay Packers Talk / Martha Careful

6-Jan / Green Bay Packers Talk / beast

6-Jan / Featured Content / Zero2Cool

6-Jan / Green Bay Packers Talk / Zero2Cool

5-Jan / Green Bay Packers Talk / Zero2Cool

5-Jan / Green Bay Packers Talk / buckeyepackfan

3-Jan / Green Bay Packers Talk / bboystyle

Headlines
Copyright © 2006 - 2025 PackersHome.com™. All Rights Reserved.