So'Oto to Play 2011: Debut Against Minny· Page 2

Dexter_Sinister
Registered

13 years ago

I agree. I think the pass rush has been a bit lacking overall this season. It's not terrible, but it's not up to the high standards of this defense. They've really missed Cullen Jenkins. I think Neal would be an adequate replacement if he was healthy, but he's not. Walden and Wynn are okay, but they can't make up for Jenkins either. So'oto looks like a more dynamic player who may be able to fill that role.

Originally Posted by: Greg C.

One of our guys is doing pretty good. Matthews had the most QB pressures in the league before Sunday. Pressure leads to picks and we lead the league ints.

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tromadz
Registered

13 years ago

#12

Whooooooo! I've been whining about getting this guy some playing time for weeks now. I'm just curious to see if he is going to bring what he brought in pre-season. Should be fun to see. I couldn't think of a better game to bring him in either. Ponder's first start.

And I think the pressures have been there more than we've given credit for. There have been a ton of breakdowns in the pass defense. Saying the volume of yards given up is predominantly because of a lack of pass rush seems a little disingenuous.

Originally Posted by: evad04

I disagree, mostly because you're wrong. We've been getting next to nothing on pass rushes. It's been annoying but I'm confident we'll turn it around.

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Packers_Finland
Registered

13 years ago

#13

So'oto has already played one snap this season, so it's not his "debut" actually.

But anyway, it'd be nice to see some pass rush from somewhere else than Matthews.

One of our guys is doing pretty good. Matthews had the most QB pressures in the league before Sunday. Pressure leads to picks and we lead the league ints.

Originally Posted by: Dexter_Sinister

He's not the second ranked 3-4 OLB in profootballfocus grades for nothing. Matthews has consistently graded above his average from last year. He's gotten less sacks than last year, but his QB hits and pressures are way up.

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DoddPower
Veteran Member

13 years ago

#14

I can definitely agree that they've gotten decent pressure, at times. However, it could be a lot better. If the Packers could significantly increase their pass rush we would see far less "coverage breakdowns," undoubtedly.

get_louder_at_lambeau
Registered

13 years ago

#15

But anyway, it'd be nice to see some pass rush from somewhere else than Matthews.

Originally Posted by: Packers_Finland

Well, considering that we have two guys who have more sacks than Matthews, and we have NINE guys with at least one sack, you're already getting that. The Packers are top 10 in sacks in the NFL.

The pass rush should improve when Zombo and Neal are back healthy, but it's not like they haven't gotten any pressure. They have. Not quite on last year's pace, but pretty good considering our front 7 is missing both of the guys who should have been the starters on the right side- Neal and Zombo.

The secondary has CLEARLY been a big part of the problem, with Shields just getting his shit together the last couple games after a horrible start, Williams getting beat like he never did last year, partially due to injury, Woodson giving up lots of catches, Burnett blowing deep coverage more than once, and Peprah being the solid but generally underwhelming guy that he is. They have been great at jumping routes and grabbig some INTs, but not great at stopping the other guy from catching the ball. Hopefully it improves as Williams gets healthy. Maybe Woodson can get a little healthier too. He is practicing for once, and that has been really rare for him.

We have rushed 3 more than any team in the league. That means Capers is putting extra guys in coverage, and they still give up the catch way too often. I blame the coverage more than the pass rush, but the fault is shared.

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DoddPower
Veteran Member

13 years ago

#16

We have rushed 3 more than any team in the league. That means Capers is putting extra guys in coverage, and they still give up the catch way too often. I blame the coverage more than the pass rush, but the fault is shared.

Originally Posted by: get_louder_at_lambeau

Well, I believe it's generally agreed upon that rushing three and/or prevent defenses aren't incredibly effective because regardless of coverage, SOMEONE will get open if a good QB has enough time in the pocket. That kind of goes back to my original point that a pass rush is more important than coverage. If 8 guys in coverage can't successfully defend 3-4 receivers, then another route should probably be taken. But, I suppose as long as our "bend-but-don't-break" defensive approach continues to work, it's OK. Obviously, I would rather getting the opposing teams offense off the field entirely and kill the clock with our offense. I think it's risky to depend on allowing teams to march down the field but hold them out of the end zone or depending on turnovers. It has worked so far against a few good teams and a few average ones, but I'm not sure it will consistently work against other elite teams, especially if our offense is having an off day (such as horrible weather in January at Lambeau.

I do expect our pass rush to improve, at least slightly. It just depends on the health of the team. I wish so much pressure wasn't put on Matthews to manufacture most the attention/pressure. I'm not sure what we would do without him.

Greg C.
Registered

13 years ago

#17

The old coverage vs. pass rush debate is always tricky, because stats are of very little help. Interceptions are often caused by a strong pass rush, while sacks are often caused by good coverage. And by the way, if you're going to hold up our defense's sack total as a positive stat, you have to be prepared to say that Clay Matthews is having a lousy year, as he only has two sacks after six games. I think Clay is playing as well as ever.

I agree that the secondary has not played as well as it did last year, but I am still with doddpower on this one. It just seems to me like a good pass rush can benefit a secondary to a greater degree than a good secondary can benefit the pass rush. The 2007 New York Giants are the poster child for that principle. Their secondary was mediocre but their pass rush was awesome, and they won the Super Bowl because of it. If you can cause the QB to rush his throws just a bit, or better yet put a little fear into him, good things can start happening very quickly.

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evad04
Member

13 years ago

#18

Of course a good pass rush helps the secondary. I'd never dispute that. But from my observation, our defensive woes this season have more to do with lapses in the secondary than problems pressuring the QB. Teams have added a lot more max protect schemes and are still finding open receivers. The pass rush could be better, and I hope it improves. My greater concern at this point, though, is still the secondary. Collins is gone, Tramon hasn't been healthy in weeks, and Woodson is a bit nicked as well. Now Shields is concussed. Hopefully in a month the injury situation is less dicey.

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Since69
Registered

13 years ago

#19

Pressure does not lead to sacks. Coverage leads to sacks. Pressure leads to interceptions, especially against inexperienced QBs.

DoddPower
Veteran Member

13 years ago

#20

Pressure does not lead to sacks. Coverage leads to sacks. Pressure leads to interceptions, especially against inexperienced QBs.

Originally Posted by: Since69

Of course some level of average coverage is needed. But if the QB only has a few seconds to throw, it makes the job of a secondary much much easier. Coverage, even the best coverage, will only last so long until someone gets open enough to catch a quick pass. With enough pass rush, a quick jam at the line could be enough to destroy a play, even if the receivers get open fairly quickly after being jammed. So of course coverage plays a role. The two cannot be separated. But if I had to choose between an elite pass rush and elite coverage, I would choose pass rush as an elite pass rush can make an average secondary look pretty damn good.

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