We're comparing apples to oranges. I provide for my children, and I'm providing an education for a lot of children that aren't mine. But the people who don't have children are suppost to ride free I guess. Yeah Zombie, the only thing you and I have in common is the conquest of undeserved snapper.

Zombie, the only people in this society who are capitalists are the business owners. Everybody else who doesn't have the testicles to own a business have a job, not a career - they have a fucking job. And they should be voting for every socialist program coming down the pike because us businessmen are more then happy to keep invading your rights as job holders and are more than happy that you sheeple vote the Republican ticket. We Beaurocrats are more than happy to collect the taxes from the sheeple and give the Capitalists tax breaks and stick more and more tax burden on the sheeple. And we Capitalists especially salute you Teabaggers for doing all the dirty work for us for free - we'll try and keep government spending down for you, but damn there's a lot of money to be made in illegal wars. In case there's some confusion this last paragraph contain numerous occassions of sarcasm.

Originally Posted by: DakotaT 

I personally benefit from capitalism. As an employee.

I got a great life. The capitalists stay awake all night worrying about the business end of things. I work, go home, and collect a pretty hefty paycheck every 2 weeks.

I got a great life. I love capitalism.

You don't have to be the capitalistic class to benefit from capitalism.

Originally Posted by: zombieslayer 

I think I need to amend something. I'm not insulted by people who don't want to raise children - some people just don't have what it takes, or there is something wrong that doesnt' allow them to have children.

What I'm appalled with are the people that choose not to have the children but take the attitude they have no responsibity with children in the form of paying taxes or whatever. The childless person is still apart of this civilization and has these responsibilities with no choice. Without our children, our civilization dies.

Originally Posted by: DakotaT 

You have no code amigo! [grin1]

Guess what Zombie, I love my life too, even if you have more money - I have everything, even my honor yet. Nobody owns me and nobody ever will.

Originally Posted by: DakotaT 

I actually hate the word "capitalist." I don't believe in capitalists.

What I believe in is markets. There isn't a human institution out there that has found a better way to coordinate and balance the interest of millions of people, almost all of them strangers to one another, at a time.

When someone can show me a non-market way to make a pencil, accounting along the way for the values of millions of people involved in various supply chains around the world, and still make it available on demand for anyone who wants to buy one in the middle of nowhere (e.g. Iowa) for a couple small-denomination coins, then I'll start to believe in such sillinesses as improving life by economic planning, macro-economic stabilization, and civilization-creating government regulation.

Yeah, I wish "the market" would value the stuff I value more than it does. I also wish to do wild and crazy things with Jessica Biel, Sarah MacLachlan, and a certain married woman here in Northeast Iowa.

Markets aren't perfect. Not even close.

Just better than the alternatives.

Like my not sleeping with said women is actually, looking from the standpoint of the "system" as a whole, better than the alternative.

(shrug)

Originally Posted by: Wade 

Show Spoiler

Originally Posted by: Nonstopdrivel 

1'll concede a moral responsibility to aid in the offering of opportunity to those who can't yet provide for themselves, e.g. children. Given that I'm a teacher (of sorts), I can't very well deny said responsibility.

But the existence of said moral responsibility does not provide a justification for taxation. Not by itself. Sorry.

Because before you can get there you still have to satisfy the burden of proof for the following:
1. That said offering of opportunity is not happening otherwise. (Ok, that's the easy bit. It's not hard to point out lots of cases where kids get screwed. I'll concede on it, too.)
AND
2. That coercion of moral scumbuckets like me is the only way to provide said opportunities.
AND
3. That said taxation (property, sales, income, whatever) is the only way to do so.

Pointing out that we have used taxes to provide education in the past is not a justification for continuing to do so. The fact that coercion has been practiced in the past does not justify it's continued use. If it was, then all a bully would have to do to justify his bullying is say, well, "people have been letting bullies get away with it for years. Ergo, it's necessary for me to be a bully."

Again, it is NOT my burden to offer an alternative to coercion via taxation. It's YOUR burden to show that there is no alternative AND that your desired taxation is the least onerous way to coerce us morally responsible sorts of people.

Try again. [grin1]

Originally Posted by: Wade