macbob
  • macbob
  • Veteran Member Topic Starter
13 years ago
Interesting analysis on 2010 QB deep throws. Thing that surprised me the most was AR's INT % as high as it was--almost 7%, ranked 15 out of 31 (they had the rankings upside down, IMO, and should have had the lower % at the top for this portion of the article).

http://www.profootballfocus.com/blog/2011/05/10/going-deep/ 

There was a lot of talk up to, during and after the draft about the quarterbacks selected. Each man dissected as analysts tried to project wholl be the next Peyton Manning, and wholl be the next Ryan Leaf.

One of the things you hear often is about a players ability to throw the deep ball. Who has it in them to go long and find the vertical threat. Its an essential skill in most offenses, but one that is rarely truly analyzed in terms of productivity.

So here goes.

We broke down every pass from the 2010 season, and dropped them into numerous categories and sub categories. One of these was passes thrown longer than 20 yards. Which brings us to the point of this article. A look at who threw downfield the most and who did it most efficiently. 30 deep attempts was the qualifying mark to be considered.

Asking A Lot

In numbers on their own nobody threw downfield more often than Peyton Manning. His 95 throws of more than 20 yards trumped Joe Flacco and Aaron Rodgers (both with 86), while Matt Hasselbeck and Drew Brees (both 76) rounded out the top five. Most interesting is the fact that only one of these guys finished with a completion percentage of over 40% when going deep. Well get to that guy in a bit.

You might guess that those five would have accumulated more yardage than the rest while throwing downfield. Well, not quite. While Rodgers and Brees made it onto both lists as each topped the 1,000 yard mark for deep throws, and Hasselbeck also appeared again, they were joined in the yardage Top 5 by Philip Rivers and Michael Vick.

So what of Manning and Flacco? They threw downfield more than any other quarterbacks in the league, yet only finished sixth (Manning) and eighth (Flacco). Quite simply, their accuracy (or inaccuracy, rather) held them down.

Of all quarterbacks who attempted 30 or more deep passes (and there were 31 quarterbacks who did so), Manning and Flacco finished in the bottom ten in completion percentage. Still it could be worse for both of them. They could be Matt Cassel.

The limited Chief struggled big time on his deep balls, completing just 14 of 57 for the worst percentage in the league. That beat out players like Alex Smith (25%), Chad Henne (25%) and Jay Cutler (26.56%). That wasnt Cutlers biggest problem, though. Along with the former Charger duo, Brees and Rivers, Cutler threw the most deep ball interceptions with eight.

AFC South Going Deep

At least Brees and Rivers were completing a high percentage of their longer passes. Both men snuck into a surprising Top 5 with percentages over the 42% mark just ahead of throwing it deep connoisseur Michael Vick (41.54%). Instead, Brees (No. 5) and Rivers (No. 4) shared the top with a guy soon to be discarded by his team, another guy who could see the exit shortly, and Matt Schaub. Nothing real creative to say about Schaub there.

Nope, the top three is an AFC South struggle for supremacy that looks down on the great Peyton Manning and his 30.53% completion percentage with disgust. At number three, the non-descript Schaub (43.75%) yields to David Garrard (No. 2 at 45.1%), and Vince Young.

Hang on a second, Vince Young? Its what the numbers say Young completed 16 of 35 balls he attempted of over 20 yards. A small sample size but for a team prepared to take on some baggage, it shows Young does in fact have something to offer.

Completion Percentage on Deep Throws

 
Rank	Player			Team	Deep	Deep	Deep Comp %	
					Attpt	Comp
1	Vince	Young		TEN	35	16	45.71%
2	David	Garrard		JAX	51	23	45.10%
3	Matt	Schaub		HST	48	21	43.75%
4	Philip	Rivers		SD	68	29	42.65%
5	Drew	Brees		NO	76	32	42.11%
6	Michael	Vick		PHI	65	27	41.54%
7	Eli	Manning		NYG	73	30	41.10%
8	Kerry	Collins		TEN	44	18	40.91%
9	Derek	Anderson	ARZ	47	19	40.43%
10	Aaron	Rodgers		GB	86	33	38.37%
11	Kyle	Orton		DEN	73	27	36.99%
12	Tom	Brady		NE	49	18	36.73%
13	Ben	Roethlisberger	PIT	69	25	36.23%
14	Matt	Hasselbeck	SEA	76	26	34.21%
15	Donovan	McNabb		WAS	60	20	33.33%
16	Brett	Favre		MIN	46	15	32.61%
17	Sam	Bradford	SL	40	13	32.50%
18	Josh	Freeman		TB	72	23	31.94%
19	Shaun	Hill		DET	47	15	31.91%
20	Matt	Ryan		ATL	51	16	31.37%
21	Colt	McCoy		CLV	32	10	31.25%
22	Peyton	Manning		IND	95	29	30.53%
23	Joe	Flacco		BLT	86	26	30.23%
24	Carson	Palmer		CIN	54	16	29.63%
25	Ryan	Fitzpatrick	BUF	69	20	28.99%
26	Mark	Sanchez		NYJ	74	21	28.38%
27	Jason	Campbell	OAK	51	14	27.45%
28	Jay	Cutler		CHI	64	17	26.56%
29	Chad	Henne		MIA	40	10	25.00%
30	Alex	Smith		SF	36	9	25.00%
31	Matt	Cassel		KC	57	14	24.56% 

Moving swiftly on, well next look into how reliant these quarterbacks are on the deep ball. So as a percentage of balls they threw, who went deep most often?

Vertical Titans

Once again its Vertical Vince Young topping the list with a massive 22.44% of all throws being aimed 20+ yards downfield. Again, you have to factor in the small sample size, but it should let you know a little something about the Tennessee Titans offense that Kerry Collins finished third, throwing 15.83% of his passes deep. Others in the top five include Michael Vick who was extremely impressive with his deep ball, and both Ryan Fitzpatrick and Joe Flacco who were less so.

Lets focus on Fitzpatrick and Flacco briefly; both men had some issues. The above table shows both to be in the bottom ten when it comes to their long range accuracy, but yet their teams kept calling on them to heave it deep. With Buffalo you feel like they over compensated a tad too much for the start of the season with Trent Edwards. The man who moved onto the Jaguars only went deep on 4.95% of passes he attempted (for both clubs). Lower than anyone who dropped back from center at least 100 times.

The problem with Fitzpatrick is that he walked the fine line between being aggressive and being reckless, often ending up on the wrong side. If youre completing that little a percentage of deep balls, then you really need to look at what else is on offer instead of forcing it and taking an incompletion.

The same can be said of Flacco who never really had that deep threat to take advantage of with the Ravens rarely using Donte Stallworth. Yet they continued going deep and the end result was just 30.23% of those balls being completed. Now Flacco did lead the league (along with Rivers and Brees) in deep touchdowns with twelve, but the Ravens barrage of long balls really put the spotlight on the problems with their deep passing attack.

One Mans Cowardice Another Mans Contemplation

At the other end of the scale, there are stories to be told about players for whom going deep was the smallest part of their repertoire. One that will frustrate Miami fans is that Chad Henne finished with the second lowest percentage of his passes thrown deep, just 8.15%. For a team that gives its quarterback as much time as Miami, this adds fuel to the fire suggesting Henne was a bit gun shy when it came to attacking vertically (perhaps with good reason, given only one in four of his deep balls end up as receptions). Still, Miami seems to have faith in him and opted not to target a rookie in this years draft.

Speaking of rookies (nice segue), if any of the teams who took one are thinking about playing them straight away, they could learn from the Rams. They only had Sam Bradford going deep on 6.78% of plays, keeping things simpler and safer for their franchise quarterback.

Other notable names at the bottom of the list include Ryan (8.93%), Schaub (8.36%) and Tom Brady (9.96%) who all went to work over shorter and intermediate distances, but in differing ways.

While Henne gets criticism for his low percentage (on all fronts) you have to respect the work of the Texans, Falcons and Patriots in making the deep ball a smaller part of their offense. For Atlanta, they ran a ball control offense that worked on methodically moving the chains that got them the number one seed in the playoffs. New England didnt need to attack vertically because they had players running free over the middle and a phenomenal decision-maker distributing the ball on their way to a 14-2 record. Houston found the offensive balance they were searching for, but their season was ultimately let down by their defense.

Deep Throw Percentage of Attempts
 
Rank	Player			Team	Total Att	Deep Att	Deep %
1	Vince	Young		TEN	156		35	22.44%
2	Aaron	Rodgers		GB	607		86	18.11%
3	Ben	Roethlisberger	PIT	480		69	17.74%
4	Joe	Flacco		BLT	553		86	17.59%
5	Michael	Vick		PHI	408		65	17.47%
6	Matt	Hasselbeck	SEA	525		76	17.12%
7	Kerry	Collins		TEN	278		44	15.83%
8	Ryan	Fitzpatrick	BUF	441		69	15.65%
9	Jason	Campbell	OAK	329		51	15.50%
10	Josh	Freeman		TB	474		72	15.19%
11	Jay	Cutler		CHI	474		64	14.81%
12	Kyle	Orton		DEN	498		73	14.66%
13	Mark	Sanchez		NYJ	596		74	14.60%
14	Colt	McCoy		CLV	222		32	14.41%
15	Derek	Anderson	ARZ	327		47	14.37%
16	Peyton	Manning		IND	706		95	13.97%
17	David	Garrard		JAX	366		51	13.93%
18	Eli	Manning		NYG	539		73	13.54%
19	Brett	Favre		MIN	358		46	12.85%
20	Donovan	McNabb		WAS	472		60	12.71%
21	Matt	Cassel		KC	468		57	12.67%
22	Philip	Rivers		SD	541		68	12.57%
23	Drew	Brees		NO	718		76	11.55%
24	Shaun	Hill		DET	416		47	11.30%
25	Alex	Smith		SF	342		36	10.53%
26	Tom	Brady		NE	537		49	9.96%
27	Carson	Palmer		CIN	585		54	9.23%
28	Matt	Ryan		ATL	600		51	8.93%
29	Matt	Schaub		HST	574		48	8.36%
30	Chad	Henne		MIA	491		40	8.15%
31	Sam	Bradford	SL	590		40	6.78%

The above shows that you can win in the NFL without attacking vertically all that much, but if you dont have the right personnel throwing and catching, forcing it can hurt.

Take Colt McCoy for example. A revelation for the Browns in year one, he was also guilty of making some bad downfield decisions. An incredible 21.88% of his passes longer than 20 yards ended up as interceptions, far higher than Cutler (12.5%) who finished second, and Rivers, Garrard, and Jason Campbell who together finished third with 11.76%.

Meanwhile, Kyle Orton made the most of 2010s break-out player, Brandon Lloyd. Only 2.74% of his long balls were intercepted, just besting Josh Freeman (2.78%) while Brett Favre finished a respectable third but will probably go away thinking he would have finished higher if he could have chucked a few to Sidney Rice.

Interceptions on Deep Throws
 
Rank	Player			Team	Attempts	INT	%
1	Colt	McCoy		CLV	32		7	21.88%
2	Jay	Cutler		CHI	64		8	12.50%
3	Jason	Campbell	OAK	51		6	11.76%
4	Philip	Rivers		SD	68		8	11.76%
5	David	Garrard		JAX	51		6	11.76%
6	Kerry	Collins		TEN	44		5	11.36%
7	Shaun	Hill		DET	47		5	10.64%
8	Drew	Brees		NO	76		8	10.53%
9	Donovan	McNabb		WAS	60		6	10.00%
10	Ryan	Fitzpatrick	BUF	69		6	8.70%
11	Alex	Smith		SF	36		3	8.33%
12	Michael	Vick		PHI	65		5	7.69%
13	Sam	Bradford	SL	40		3	7.50%
14	Chad	Henne		MIA	40		3	7.50%   
15	Peyton	Manning		IND	95		7	7.37%
16	Aaron	Rodgers		GB	86		6	6.98%
17	Eli	Manning		NYG	73		5	6.85%
18	Matt	Hasselbeck	SEA	76		5	6.58%
19	Derek	Anderson	ARZ	47		3	6.38%
20	Matt	Schaub		HST	48		3	6.25%
21	Tom	Brady		NE	49		3	6.12%
22	Matt	Ryan		ATL	51		3	5.88%
23	Joe	Flacco		BLT	86		5	5.81%
24	Vince	Young		TEN	35		2	5.71%
25	Carson	Palmer		CIN	54		3	5.56%
26	Mark	Sanchez		NYJ	74		4	5.41%
27	Matt	Cassel		KC	57		3	5.26% 
28	Ben	Roethlisberger	PIT	69		3	4.35%	 
29	Brett	Favre		MIN	46		2	4.35%
30	Josh	Freeman		TB	72		2	2.78%
31	Kyle	Orton		DEN	73		2	2.74%

There you have it. A somewhat comprehensive look at the quarterbacks when they took aim downfield. Its not a gospel indication of who the best are because of the numerous other factors that statistics cant delve into. Namely, bits likes the type of throw, conditions, type of player throwing to and against, and variables such as tipped passes resulting in completions or interceptions. For that, Id suggest purchasing a premium membership to see our deep ball grades but then, of course I would.

For now, Ill leave you safe in the knowledge that Vince Young is more accurate (in one area) than you thought possible, while even Peyton Manning has his struggles at times.

Sometimes you have to admire the audacity of numbers.

ProFootballFocus wrote:

Nonstopdrivel
13 years ago

Thing that surprised me the most was Aaron Rodgers's INT % as high as it was--almost 7%, ranked 15 out of 31

"macbob" wrote:



I wonder how many of those interceptions were balls bouncing off the hands or jerseys of the Packers' at times stone-handed receivers and caroming into the surer hands of the opponents.
UserPostedImage
macbob
  • macbob
  • Veteran Member Topic Starter
13 years ago

Thing that surprised me the most was Aaron Rodgers's INT % as high as it was--almost 7%, ranked 15 out of 31

"Nonstopdrivel" wrote:



I wonder how many of those interceptions were balls bouncing off the hands or jerseys of the Packers' at times stone-handed receivers and caroming into the surer hands of the opponents.

"macbob" wrote:



Good point (Jennings off of the hands, off of the helmet, into the defenders hands...sigh), and even without that, given his high # of completions (33, tops in the league) he's still toward the top of the league in deep passing even when just 'average' at 15th on INT %.

I was just surprised at how high the # was. My perception had been fewer INTs.
Greg C.
13 years ago
I wonder if these numbers are very consistent from one year to the next among all of these QBs. As the author himself notes, there are so many variables with deep throws--things that are beyond the QB's control. Also, the sample size is very small.
blank
nerdmann
13 years ago
If you'll recall, Arodge had a thing in the beginning of this year where he was throwing jump balls more often. He decided to take "riskier" opportunities, where the WR had to go up and make a play on the ball. This wasn't working out earlier in the season, but I think he did get more conservative as far as risk taking as the season went on.
Still he's second in the league behind only Vince Young in % of attempts being deep balls? That ain't high percentage WCO football. You could say that if the WRs stopped dropping those easy TDs, his stats would look ridiculous, but IMHO, the reason there are so many drops is because they are throwing so far downfield.
“Winning is not a sometime thing, it is an all the time thing. You don't do things right once in a while…you do them right all the time.”
Porforis
13 years ago

If you'll recall, Arodge had a thing in the beginning of this year where he was throwing jump balls more often. He decided to take "riskier" opportunities, where the WR had to go up and make a play on the ball. This wasn't working out earlier in the season, but I think he did get more conservative as far as risk taking as the season went on.
Still he's second in the league behind only Vince Young in % of attempts being deep balls? That ain't high percentage WCO football. You could say that if the WRs stopped dropping those easy TDs, his stats would look ridiculous, but IMHO, the reason there are so many drops is because they are throwing so far downfield.

"nerdmann" wrote:



To be fair, every QB would look a lot better if his receivers never dropped easy-ish balls.
RajiRoar
13 years ago

One Mans Cowardice Another Mans 24

ProFootballFocus wrote:



balls bouncing .

"Nonstopdrivel" wrote:



I was just surprised at

"macbob" wrote:



very small.

"Greg C." wrote:



balls?

"nerdmann" wrote:



balls.

"Porforis" wrote:



MintBaconDrivel
Dec, 11, 2012 - FOREVER!
Dulak
13 years ago

One Mans Cowardice Another Mans 24

"RajiRoar" wrote:



balls bouncing .

ProFootballFocus wrote:



I was just surprised at

"Nonstopdrivel" wrote:



very small.

"macbob" wrote:



balls?

"Greg C." wrote:



balls.

"nerdmann" wrote:

"Porforis" wrote:



... + one 🙂
nerdmann
13 years ago

If you'll recall, Arodge had a thing in the beginning of this year where he was throwing jump balls more often. He decided to take "riskier" opportunities, where the WR had to go up and make a play on the ball. This wasn't working out earlier in the season, but I think he did get more conservative as far as risk taking as the season went on.
Still he's second in the league behind only Vince Young in % of attempts being deep balls? That ain't high percentage WCO football. You could say that if the WRs stopped dropping those easy TDs, his stats would look ridiculous, but IMHO, the reason there are so many drops is because they are throwing so far downfield.

"Porforis" wrote:



To be fair, every QB would look a lot better if his receivers never dropped easy-ish balls.

"nerdmann" wrote:





This is true. And they would have fewer drops if they ran a more "high percentage" offense.
“Winning is not a sometime thing, it is an all the time thing. You don't do things right once in a while…you do them right all the time.”
evad04
13 years ago

If you'll recall, Arodge had a thing in the beginning of this year where he was throwing jump balls more often. He decided to take "riskier" opportunities, where the WR had to go up and make a play on the ball. This wasn't working out earlier in the season, but I think he did get more conservative as far as risk taking as the season went on.
Still he's second in the league behind only Vince Young in % of attempts being deep balls? That ain't high percentage WCO football. You could say that if the WRs stopped dropping those easy TDs, his stats would look ridiculous, but IMHO, the reason there are so many drops is because they are throwing so far downfield.

"nerdmann" wrote:



To be fair, every QB would look a lot better if his receivers never dropped easy-ish balls.

"Porforis" wrote:





This is true. And they would have fewer drops if they ran a more "high percentage" offense.

"nerdmann" wrote:


[...facepalm...]

Not this stuff again.
William Henderson didn't have to run people over. His preferred method was levitation.
"I'm a reasonable man, get off my case."
Fan Shout
Zero2Cool (12h) : He probably plays DB.
Zero2Cool (12h) : I don't even know who that Don is
packerfanoutwest (13h) : What position does Lemon play ?
dfosterf (13h) : I read this am that Don Lemon quit x, so there's that
Zero2Cool (13-Nov) : Seems some are flocking to BlueSky and leaving Tweeter. I wonder if BlueSky allows embeded lists
beast (12-Nov) : He's a review guy
Zero2Cool (12-Nov) : Jordy Nelson is still in the NFL.
Zero2Cool (11-Nov) : Ok, will do.
wpr (11-Nov) : Kevin, donate it to a local food pantry or whatever she wants to do with it. Thanks
wpr (11-Nov) : Kevin,
Zero2Cool (11-Nov) : Wayne, got your girl scout order.
dfosterf (11-Nov) : I believe Zero was being sarcastic
dfosterf (11-Nov) : Due to that rookie kicker Jake Bates that Zero said "he didn't want anyway". 58 yarder to tie the game, 52 yarder to win it. In fairness,
Mucky Tundra (11-Nov) : Lions escape with a win
Mucky Tundra (11-Nov) : and now Goff looking better
Mucky Tundra (11-Nov) : Goff with ANOTHER INT
Mucky Tundra (11-Nov) : and now Stroud throwing INTs
Mucky Tundra (11-Nov) : Goff having an ATROCIOUS game
wpr (11-Nov) : Happy birthday Corps. Ever faithful. Thanks dfosterf.
Mucky Tundra (10-Nov) : stiff armed by Baker Mayfield for about 5-7 yards and still managed to get a pass off
Mucky Tundra (10-Nov) : Nick Bosa
wpr (8-Nov) : Jets are Packers (L)East
Zero2Cool (8-Nov) : Jets released K Riley Patterson and signed K Anders Carlson to the practice squad.
wpr (8-Nov) : Thanks guys
Mucky Tundra (7-Nov) : Happy Birthday wpr!
Zero2Cool (7-Nov) : Anders Carlson ... released by 49ers
dfosterf (7-Nov) : Happy Birthday!😊😊😊
wpr (7-Nov) : Thanks Kevin.
Zero2Cool (7-Nov) : Happy Birthday, Wayne! 🎉🎂🥳
beast (7-Nov) : Edge Rushers is the same... it's not the 4-3 vs 3-4 change, it's the Hafley's version of the 4-3... as all 32 teams are actually 4-2
Zero2Cool (6-Nov) : OLB to DE and player requests trade. Yet folks say they are same.
beast (5-Nov) : In other news, the Green Bay Packers have signed Zero2Cool to update their website 😋 jk
beast (5-Nov) : Might just re-sign the kicker we got
beast (5-Nov) : Are there any kickers worth drafting next year?
Zero2Cool (5-Nov) : Preston Smith for Malik Willis
Mucky Tundra (5-Nov) : Getting a 7th rounder from the Stillers
Zero2Cool (5-Nov) : At least we get 7th round pick now!! HELLO NEW KICKER
Mucky Tundra (5-Nov) : Steelers getting a premier lockdown corner!
Zero2Cool (5-Nov) : Packers are trading edge rusher Preston Smith to the Pittsburgh Steelers, per sources.
Mucky Tundra (5-Nov) : Preston Smith traded to the Steelers!!!!
Zero2Cool (5-Nov) : CB Marshon Lattimore to Commanders
Zero2Cool (5-Nov) : Bears are sending RB Khalil Herbert to the Bengals, per sources.
Zero2Cool (5-Nov) : ZaDarius Smith continues his "north" tour.
Zero2Cool (5-Nov) : Let the Chiefs trade a 5th for him
Zero2Cool (5-Nov) : Nearing 30, large contract, nope.
Martha Careful (5-Nov) : any interest in Marshon Lattimore?
Zero2Cool (4-Nov) : What does NFL do if they're over cap?
Mucky Tundra (4-Nov) : They've been able to constantly push it out through extensions, void years etc but they're in the hole by 72 million next year I believe
hardrocker950 (4-Nov) : Seems the Saints are always in cap hell
Mucky Tundra (4-Nov) : Saints HC job is not an envious one; gonna be in cap hell for 3 years
Please sign in to use Fan Shout
2024 Packers Schedule
Friday, Sep 6 @ 7:15 PM
Eagles
Sunday, Sep 15 @ 12:00 PM
COLTS
Sunday, Sep 22 @ 12:00 PM
Titans
Sunday, Sep 29 @ 12:00 PM
VIKINGS
Sunday, Oct 6 @ 3:25 PM
Rams
Sunday, Oct 13 @ 12:00 PM
CARDINALS
Sunday, Oct 20 @ 12:00 PM
TEXANS
Sunday, Oct 27 @ 12:00 PM
Jaguars
Sunday, Nov 3 @ 3:25 PM
LIONS
Sunday, Nov 17 @ 12:00 PM
Bears
Sunday, Nov 24 @ 3:25 PM
49ERS
Thursday, Nov 28 @ 7:20 PM
DOLPHINS
Thursday, Dec 5 @ 7:15 PM
Lions
Sunday, Dec 15 @ 7:20 PM
Seahawks
Monday, Dec 23 @ 7:15 PM
SAINTS
Sunday, Dec 29 @ 12:00 PM
Vikings
Saturday, Jan 4 @ 11:00 PM
BEARS
Recent Topics
6h / Green Bay Packers Talk / Mucky Tundra

13-Nov / Around The NFL / Mucky Tundra

13-Nov / Green Bay Packers Talk / beast

12-Nov / Featured Content / Zero2Cool

11-Nov / Green Bay Packers Talk / beast

11-Nov / Green Bay Packers Talk / bboystyle

9-Nov / Green Bay Packers Talk / joepacker

8-Nov / Green Bay Packers Talk / buckeyepackfan

6-Nov / Green Bay Packers Talk / Zero2Cool

6-Nov / Green Bay Packers Talk / Zero2Cool

5-Nov / Green Bay Packers Talk / Mucky Tundra

5-Nov / Green Bay Packers Talk / Zero2Cool

5-Nov / Featured Content / Zero2Cool

5-Nov / GameDay Threads / Cheesey

5-Nov / Green Bay Packers Talk / Martha Careful

Headlines
Copyright © 2006 - 2024 PackersHome.com™. All Rights Reserved.