Nonstopdrivel
14 years ago

You take Rice, we'll take Hutson 
Cold, Hard Football Facts for September 6, 2005

(Ed. Note: This piece originally ran September 6, 2005. Naturally, it pissed of those modern fans who believe John Elway invented football at Stanford in 1982.)

By Cold, Hard Football Facts contributor Mike Carlson

In a rare moment of sobriety, we remember the walls of our cardboard chalet echoing as the lid was slammed shut on the proposition that Jerry Rice was the greatest football player of all time.

And when we use Jim Brown to slam shut a lid, that LID STAYS SLAMMED SHUT. Even if we would like to make a case for Bobby Bell as Brown's defensive equivalent, that case might well be as fizzy as a 12-pack of Old Milwaukee and more anecdotal than my grandfather after a 98 (that's seven 7&7s). And in a future column, we may revive the old Bill Russell vs Wilt Chamberlain debate by reminding readers of the legacy of another Cleveland Brown, Otto Graham, the greatest winning quarterback in NFL history.

But for now, there are a couple of points to make about Rice, who retired yesterday after a brilliant, record-shattering 20-year NFL career. When baseball guru Bill James produced all-time rankings of players, he made two separate lists, one for "peak value" and the other for "career value." Certainly Rice's career value is unparalleled. Like a gridiron equivalent of Hank Aaron or Eddie Collins, he turned in top-flight seasons in three different decades including a mini-revival in Oakland and his ability to deliver first downs and touchdowns remained impressive. He played 20 seasons, and really only two of them were duds (one of those due to injury). Longevity, in this instance, is a strong indicator of quality, in and of itself.

So surely, if Rice's career value is so high but he's not the greatest player of all time, he's got to be the greatest receiver of all time, right?

Wrong. Much as we'd like to agree, the Cold, Hard Football Facts suggest otherwise. There's a very good argument to be made for the guy who could be said to have invented the pass pattern: Don Hutson, who tore up defenses for Green Bay from 1935 to 1945. If greatness is reflected in dominance, no receiver was greater because no receiver ever dominated his game the way Hutson did.

Catches

Rice has more catches (1,549) than anyone in NFL history, obviously. But no one has ever led the league in receiving eight times except Hutson. Eight times in 11 seasons. Runner-up Lionel Taylor of Denver led the AFL five times in the earliest days of the upstart leagues existence. Rice led the league in receptions twice (1990, 1996). Hutson led the NFL five years in a row (1941-45)! No one else, not even Rice, has come close. Among NFL receivers, just three (Tom Fears of the L.A. Rams, Pete Pihos of Philadelphia and Raymond Berry of Baltimore) boast three consecutive years leading the league in receptions. Taylor topped the AFL receiving list its first four years (1960-63), putting him alone at second on this elite list of reception leaders. Hutson retired with 488 receptions, more than doubling the previous record of 190 catches.

Receiving yards

What about yards, you say? Rice led the league in receiving yardage six times in his 20 seasons. Impressive, for sure. But Hutson led the league seven times, including a record four years in a row (1941-44). Hutson doesn't figure in the yardage-per-season figures, but he does have four games with over 200 yards, second in NFL history only to Lance Alworth's five. (Rice and Charley Hennigan, who played for Houston of the AFL, also have four 200-yard games on their resume). Hutson, in other words, was a big-play receiver. In the first play from scrimmage of his first NFL start (his second game) Hutson caught an 83-yard touchdown pass from Arnie Herber, which led the Packers to a 7-0 win over Chicago.

Touchdowns

Rice led the league in touchdown catches six times in 20 seasons, but Hutson led the league nine times in 11. He retired in 1945 with 99 touchdown catches, which was the record until Steve Largent passed it a full 44 seasons later. Sixty years after Hutson last played, back in the Stone Age of NFL offense, he remains fifth on the all-time touchdown reception list. He led the NFL in scores every year between 1935 and 1938, skipped 1939, and then every year from 1940 through 1944. His 17 TD receptions in the 11-game 1942 season has been eclipsed by guys playing longer seasons, including Rice's record 22 in the 16-game 1987 season, but remains the Packers team record.

Championships

Rice was a premier postseason performer, and he won three championships in his career with San Francisco before ending up on the losing end of Super Bowl XXXVII, when he wore an Oakland uniform. Hutson also went 3-1 in NFL title games, winning championships for TitleTown in 1936 (beating the Boston Redskins at the Polo Grounds in New York City), 1939 and 1944. The Packers lost to the Giants in the 1938 championship game.

Career performance

Hutsons 1942 campaign was probably the greatest season by a receiver in NFL history. In 11 games, Hutson caught 74 passes for 1,211 yards (16.4 YPC) and 17 TDs numbers that even by todays pass-happy standards would have put Hutson in the Pro Bowl. Rice, the dominant receiver of our day, played his entire career with the benefit of a 16-game schedule. He surpassed 17 TDs just once and equaled it one other time. Projected over a 16-game schedule, Hutson would have caught 108 passes for 1,761 yards and 25 TDs in 1942.

The year 1942 was for receiving what Babe Ruths 1920 season was for home runs. Ruth hit 54 dingers that year, one season after hitting 29. Before Ruth came along, the home run record stood at 16.

Pros and cons

Hutson did it all in an era where the forward pass was still considered risky. Of course, the era argument works both for and against Hutson. You might argue that because the passing game wasn't featured, it was easier for Hutson to lead the league so often. The obvious rejoinder is that Green Bay passed so much because, in Hutson, they had a unique receiving threat.

In the two-way era, he also played defensive back for the Packers. He had 30 interceptions in the seven seasons those stats were kept. He was also a place kicker, though not an exceptional one by the standards of the day. But remember, he was kicking, and Hebner was throwing, a ball which was as close to a rugby ball as it is to today's aerodynamic spiraller. Just ask Bennie Friedman.

We don't doubt that Jerry Rice would have grabbed some picks if the NFL still played both ways. And you can argue that the NFL between 1942-44 wasn't as strong as it would have been had not coaches Eisenhower and MacArthur drafted players away for the big games against the Berlin '39ers and Tokyo Rising Suns. But from 1935-41, that argument doesn't apply.

Comparing eras

A great comparison can be made across the eras as well. In the same sense that Hutson was lucky to have joined the Packers when they were coached by Curly Lambeau who wasn't philosophically opposed to the forward pass, like most contemporary coaches he also had capable quarterbacks. He was thrown to by Herber and then by Cecil Isbell, both fine passers for the time, but he also had good results catching balls from Irv Comp. Rice, of course, was a perfect fit for Bill Walsh's offense, and blessed with Joe Montana and Steve Young tossing him the ball. But the 49er West Coast offense flourished without Rice. Green Bay's passing floundered in the years after Hutson.

In 1945, the Packers went 6-4 with Hutson catching 47 passes for 834 yards (17.9 per catch) and 9 TDs (the equivalent of 75 for 1,326 and 15 TDs in a 16-game season). The Packers offense was second in the NFL, scoring 25.8 points per game. The next season, without Hutson, the Pack managed to finish 6-5, but their offensive production was cut virtually in half, falling to just 13.4 PPG.

In Rice's last season in San Francisco, he caught 75 passes for 805 yards (10.5 per catch) and 7 TDs. The 49ers went 6-10. The next year, without Rice, and with no one stepping up as second receiver, they improved to 12-4 as Terrell Owens (93 for 1,412 and 16 TDs) filled both the No. 1 and No. 2 receiving slots.

We don't doubt that Hutson could have competed well into the succeeding decades, even at his 1930s-40s stature: 6-foot-1-inch, 183 pounds. In that sense the receiver he most resembles is a Raymond Berry, but who was also an exceptional deep threat. As much as anything, Hutson was an athlete; he went to Alabama on a baseball scholarship, and was a football walk-on.

The "Alabama Antelope" never made All-America for the Tide. It wasn't until he got into an aerial context that his real skills showed. He was the pioneer: the first guy with the curved stick, the first one shooting the jump shot. No one else in his 11 years was even close to him as a receiver. Jerry Rice was very good for longer than anyone in football history. He was great for a similar time as Hutson, perhaps longer (of course, Hutson had to make a living after football, which was a great career-shortener). But Rice was less dominant at his peak and wasn't the trailblazer the Hutson was. All of which suggests that Rice may rank No. 2 on the all-time list.

***

Iron Mike Carlson broadcasts the NFL for Britains Channel 5, covers NFL Europe for Pro Football Weekly, the International Herald Tribune, and NFL.com, and will be writing Friday Morning Tight End weekly during the season for NFLUK.com. The New England native has wrung every possible inch of football mileage from having played college lacrosse with Bill Belichick at Wesleyan when Bill was a freshman and didnt play football, thus missing the opportunity to wring appropriate mileage from Iron Mike. Carlson attributes his rapid decline in intelligence during his teenaged years not to playing football in high school and college, though he did, nor to drugs, though he might have, but to over-indulgence in Hulls Export, Narragansett and Pabst Blue Ribbon. He now lives in Haslemere, England, within striking distance of the Ringwood and Harveys Breweries.


UserPostedImage
millertime
14 years ago
seems pretty biased
mi_keys
14 years ago
It may be biased, but statistically no athlete in American sporting history has dominated his position at his time to the extent that Hutson did. If I remember correctly the next closest person behind Hutson had 33 receiving touchdowns for his career compared to Hutson's record 99. He scored three times as many as the go closest to him. Also consider what his record year was projected to be over 16 games. Even today that would rank 24th in receptions, 3rd all time in yards, and 1st in touchdowns. It may be biased but I agree.
Born and bred a cheesehead
Nonstopdrivel
14 years ago
Biased? This guy is a New England native.
UserPostedImage
millertime
14 years ago
bias knows no geography. rice played against MUCH tougher competition.
Zero2Cool
14 years ago

bias knows no geography. rice played against MUCH tougher competition.

"millertime" wrote:

and the rules didn't favor the offense and passing game specifically either.
UserPostedImage
zombieslayer
14 years ago
2 things - one, it was a hell of a lot harder to pass back then. Let's not forget you were able to hit the receiver all the way down the field until the actual moment of when the catch can be made. Only then was it pass interference.

Now try this. Get a friend of yours that's as athletic as you are. Have him cover you. Allow him to clobber you during your route not just once within 5 yards but all the way down the field.

See how well you fare.

2nd thing:

We don't doubt that Hutson could have competed well into the succeeding decades, even at his 1930s-40s stature: 6-foot-1-inch, 183 pounds.



Today, he'd probably be 210 pounds and every bit as fast. Weight training back then sucked. So yes, he'd be bigger than two of our best receivers today (Gregorious and Driver).
My man Donald Driver
UserPostedImage
(thanks to Pack93z for the pic)
2010 will be seen as the beginning of the new Packers dynasty. 🇹🇹 🇲🇲 🇦🇷
porky88
14 years ago
Hutson was bigger and faster than everyone on the field. He didn't have an equal to clobber him down the field. That is what made him the best.

However, the players back then weren't as skillful as they are now. Hutson would be an exception IMO, but certainly, you can't tell me that the era was even close to what it's been since the merger. Players today are 300-plus pounds and playing along the offensive line. If you were 200 pounds, you were a guard back then.

Today, LBs are 250. Back then, they were 175. Jack Ham is considered small for a LB and he was 230ish I believe. I understand training is more advanced, but this is a very big difference.

The eras are different. Let's not forget, Jerry Rice may of had a difficult time breaking into the NFL back then because of the color of his skin.

Huston is a great player. No, a legendary player. Maybe the most dominate football player of an era. He is not a better football player than Jerry Rice though.
Nonstopdrivel
14 years ago
Part of the reason people were smaller back then is that weight training was not only not emphasized -- it was actively discouraged and believed to be counterproductive for football players until the 1960s. Weight training didn't come into its own for football players until the early 1970s.
UserPostedImage
Porforis
14 years ago

Biased? This guy is a New England native.

"Nonstopdrivel" wrote:



Clearly Packers fans only exist in Wisconsin, and any fans living outside the state must be immediately purged.

*Hides*
Fan Shout
Mucky Tundra (15-May) : Zero, regarding Woodson, that'd why I find the timing with Williams peculiar
dfosterf (15-May) : Ryan Hall y'all does a great job of tracking thesr
Zero2Cool (15-May) : Fear not!! I planned to do 33mi bike ride tomorrow morning, so ... yeah
Zero2Cool (15-May) : We got some dark clouds and nasty winds right bout now.
Zero2Cool (15-May) : Madison they had hail 4pm.
dfosterf (15-May) : Sure looks like these tornadoes are headed towards Green Bay
Zero2Cool (15-May) : Woodson of Charles fame was reluctant and then loved it. that didn't really come out until post career
Mucky Tundra (15-May) : IE "We bought into the Bears and they let us down, we have no choice to seek alternatives"
Mucky Tundra (15-May) : Or that Williams and his family are preparing an exit ramp if they don't like how things are going in a few years
Mucky Tundra (15-May) : Either Williams thought it would make him look good (reluctant but then embraces the city and franchise)
Mucky Tundra (15-May) : I can only assume that the Williams camp agreed to cooperate with that article tells me 2 things
dfosterf (15-May) : Ya. They are in a great mood
Zero2Cool (15-May) : I should visit again
dfosterf (15-May) : ChiCity Sports entering freakout mode due to Caleb and his dad not wanting him to go there
Zero2Cool (15-May) : "He's looking really good out there," Derrick Ansley said of Kalen King. Adds that he's been playing inside and out.
Zero2Cool (15-May) : Him saying he doesn't have one to give haha
Zero2Cool (15-May) : True, that was awesome. The whole F thing was great actually.
dfosterf (15-May) : I did like the Mark Murphy part, sorta
Zero2Cool (15-May) : Some comments on it saying it was great, amazing... I came away thinking... awkward.
dfosterf (15-May) : Packers schedule release video is "interesting" I guess.
Zero2Cool (15-May) : SOOO glad that tool still works. Saves from manually entering each game
Zero2Cool (15-May) : NFL Pick'em import was done last night.
Mucky Tundra (15-May) : Atlanta with 5 primetime games lol
Zero2Cool (15-May) : Week Five BYE?? NFL is hell.
wpr (14-May) : Vikings schedule leaked. Week 12 in GB. Week 18 in MN.
wpr (14-May) : CBS has GB @ NYG Week 11 Nov 16 and they will face MN in week 18 but don't say where. I think away
Zero2Cool (14-May) : W15: Packers at Broncos
Zero2Cool (14-May) : Ben Sirmans on MarShawn Lloyd: “Everything’s full go for him.”
Zero2Cool (14-May) : Luke Butkus says training camp will allow plenty of time to implement new center Elgton Jenkins
Zero2Cool (14-May) : wk 2 commanders at packers
Zero2Cool (14-May) : Ugh. Packers thanksgiving detroit ...boring
Zero2Cool (14-May) : Panthers at Green Bay in week 9, Nov 2nd
buckeyepackfan (14-May) : Week 1
buckeyepackfan (14-May) : Packers Host Detroit Week 1! ML finally gets a week home opener.
beast (13-May) : I was kind of hoping Douglas might come back to the Pack
beast (13-May) : My question is how much do we trust Jenkins? In bad weather, he seemed to struggle a bit with ball control snapping, though he started at OG
beast (13-May) : Well Jenkins probably knows he's not getting that 2026 salary number without a new contact... so just trying to get the new contact early
Zero2Cool (13-May) : CB Rasul Douglas is visiting the #Seahawks today, per source.
dfosterf (13-May) : He's a switch and baiter. Its the same as a bait and switcher except he agreed to the switch first lol
dfosterf (13-May) : 6.8 mil raise next year. Those are existing contract numbers
dfosterf (13-May) : 12.8 plus 4.8 pro rata signing bonus is 17.6 mil. Top center in the league at 18
Zero2Cool (13-May) : Elgton Jenkins wants to rework contract ahead of position change to center
Zero2Cool (13-May) : 🏈Monday, Nov. 10: Eagles at Packers
buckeyepackfan (12-May) : Packers @ Bears week 16(Saturday Game)
Zero2Cool (12-May) : Clifford hasn't been the same since losing 8
dfosterf (12-May) : Sean Clifford would probably disagree
dfosterf (12-May) : Canuck Cannon. Got a very good feeling about this
Zero2Cool (12-May) : Tom Pelissero also reports what bboy stated
bboystyle (12-May) : The Green Bay Packers on Monday signed Taylor Elgersma, the Canadian-born quarterback who tried out at the team’s rookie camp last weekend
beast (12-May) : There were reports four days ago that the Packers were signing QB Taylor Elgersma, but no official action since
Please sign in to use Fan Shout
2025 Packers Schedule
Sunday, Sep 7 @ 3:25 PM
LIONS
Thursday, Sep 11 @ 7:15 PM
COMMANDERS
Sunday, Sep 21 @ 12:00 PM
Browns
Sunday, Sep 28 @ 7:20 PM
Cowboys
Sunday, Oct 12 @ 3:25 PM
BENGALS
Sunday, Oct 19 @ 3:25 PM
Cardinals
Sunday, Oct 26 @ 7:20 PM
Steelers
Sunday, Nov 2 @ 12:00 PM
PANTHERS
Monday, Nov 10 @ 7:15 PM
EAGLES
Sunday, Nov 16 @ 12:00 PM
Giants
Sunday, Nov 23 @ 12:00 PM
VIKINGS
Thursday, Nov 27 @ 12:00 PM
Lions
Sunday, Dec 7 @ 12:00 PM
BEARS
Sunday, Dec 14 @ 3:25 PM
Broncos
Friday, Dec 19 @ 11:00 PM
Bears
Friday, Dec 26 @ 11:00 PM
RAVENS
Saturday, Jan 3 @ 11:00 PM
Vikings
Recent Topics
22h / Green Bay Packers Talk / dfosterf

15-May / Green Bay Packers Talk / beast

15-May / Green Bay Packers Talk / greengold

15-May / Random Babble / Martha Careful

15-May / Green Bay Packers Talk / beast

15-May / Green Bay Packers Talk / beast

14-May / Green Bay Packers Talk / dfosterf

13-May / Green Bay Packers Talk / nyrpack

13-May / Green Bay Packers Talk / Zero2Cool

13-May / Green Bay Packers Talk / wpr

13-May / Green Bay Packers Talk / beast

13-May / Green Bay Packers Talk / beast

13-May / Green Bay Packers Talk / wpr

12-May / Green Bay Packers Talk / beast

12-May / Around The NFL / beast

Headlines
Copyright © 2006 - 2025 PackersHome.com™. All Rights Reserved.