Zero2Cool
15 years ago
I'll pose this question in a new thread for a new debate as I feel it deserves it.



Edit, I'm looking things up on this while waiting.

(1) The intimidation and harassment suffered by the leaders of the society, the scholars, heads of tribes, merchants, academic teachers and other eminent individuals;

(2) The situation of the law within the country and the arbitrary declaration of what is Halal and Haram (lawful and unlawful) regardless of the Shari'ah as instituted by Allah;

(3) The state of the press and the media which became a tool of truth-hiding and misinformation; the media carried out the plan of the enemy of idolising cult of certain personalities and spreading scandals among the believers to repel the people away from their religion, as Allah, the Exalted said: {surely- as for- those who love that scandal should circulate between the believers, they shall have a grievous chastisement in this world and in the here after} (An-Noor, 24:19).

(4) Abuse and confiscation of human rights;

(5) The financial and the economical situation of the country and the frightening future in the view of the enormous amount of debts and interest owed by the government; this is at the time when the wealth of the Ummah being wasted to satisfy personal desires of certain individuals!! while imposing more custom duties and taxes on the nation. (the prophet said about the woman who committed adultery: "She repented in such a way sufficient to bring forgiveness to a custom collector!!").

(6) The miserable situation of the social services and infra-structure especially the water service and supply , the basic requirement of life.,

(7) The state of the ill-trained and ill-prepared army and the impotence of its commander in chief despite the incredible amount of money that has been spent on the army. The gulf war clearly exposed the situation.,

(8) Shari'a law was suspended and man made law was used instead.,

(9) And as far as the foreign policy is concerned the report exposed not only how this policy has disregarded the Islamic issues and ignored the Muslims, but also how help and support were provided to the enemy against the Muslims; the cases of Gaza-Ariha and the communist in the south of Yemen are still fresh in the memory, and more can be said.

"Osama bin Laden 1996" wrote:




First, for over seven years the United States has been occupying the lands of Islam in the holiest of places, the Arabian Peninsula, plundering its riches, dictating to its rulers, humiliating its people, terrorizing its neighbors, and turning its bases in the Peninsula into a spearhead through which to fight the neighboring Muslim peoples. (1)

If some people have in the past argued about the fact of the occupation, all the people of the Peninsula have now acknowledged it. The best proof of this is the Americans' continuing aggression against the Iraqi people using the Peninsula as a staging post, even though all its rulers are against their territories being used to that end, but they are helpless.

Second, despite the great devastation inflicted on the Iraqi people by the crusader-Zionist alliance, and despite the huge number of those killed, which has exceeded 1 million... despite all this, the Americans are once against trying to repeat the horrific massacres, as though they are not content with the protracted blockade imposed after the ferocious war or the fragmentation and devastation. (2)

So here they come to annihilate what is left of this people and to humiliate their Muslim neighbors.

Third, if the Americans' aims behind these wars are religious and economic, the aim is also to serve the Jews' petty state and divert attention from its occupation of Jerusalem and murder of Muslims there. The best proof of this is their eagerness to destroy Iraq, the strongest neighboring Arab state, and their endeavor to fragment all the states of the region such as Iraq, Saudi Arabia, Egypt, and Sudan into paper statelets and through their disunion and weakness to guarantee Israel's survival and the continuation of the brutal crusade occupation of the Peninsula. (3)

"Osama bin Laden 1998" wrote:


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Zero2Cool
15 years ago

I'm fighting so I can die a martyr and go to heaven to meet God. Our fight now is against the Americans.

"Osama bin Laden 9/12/2001" wrote:





It is what we instigated for a while, in self-defence ... So if avenging the killing of our people is terrorism, let history be a witness that we are terrorists.

"Osama bin Laden 10/20/2001" wrote:






The tape also contains bin Laden's first public acknowledgment of al-Qaeda's involvement in the attacks on the U.S., noting that he first thought about attacking the World Trade Center in 1982, after watching Israeli aircraft bomb Lebanon during the 1982 Invasion of Lebanon:

While I was looking at these destroyed towers in Lebanon, it sparked in my mind that the tyrant should be punished with the same and that we should destroy towers in America, so that it tastes what we taste and would be deterred from killing our children and women.

"Osama bin Laden 2004" wrote:



He also admits for the first time a direct link to the attacks, saying that they were carried out because

we are a free people who do not accept injustice, and we want to regain the freedom of our nation.

"Osama bin Laden 2004" wrote:

Bin Laden threatens further retaliation against the U.S., noting that the conditions which provoked the 2001 attacks still exist and compares America to "corrupt" Arab governments.

He speaks of his desire to bankrupt the U.S., saying:

[It is] easy for us to provoke and bait this administration. All that we have to do is to send two mujahidin to the furthest point east to raise a piece of cloth on which is written al-Qaeda, in order to make the generals race there and cause America to suffer human, economic, and political losses ... This is in addition to our having experience in using guerrilla warfare and the war of attrition to fight tyrannical superpowers, as we, alongside the mujahidin, bled Russia for 10 years, until it went bankrupt and was forced to withdraw in defeat.

"Osama bin Laden 2004" wrote:





So, prior to the Lebanon bombing from Israeli bin Laden was able to carry on board his Camel Hair Moose and after the bombing was not and this upset him. He wanted to get even with those who stripped that freedom with him and wanted them to share the same loss of freedom he has endured.


So, you fling poop at me, I fling poop at you?
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Pack93z
15 years ago
Why are we hated... especially in that region.. is because we stick our noses into a centuries old battle over land tied to religion.. chose a pony in the fight.. a fight we had no business getting involved in.. other than our interests in the oil under the land.

The rest, IMO.. is diversion of this simple premise.. we got involved in something that we had no reason to get involved in.. other than to protect the precious flow of oil which honestly is more precious than gold.

And our country would collapse in a heartbeat without that oil.. self preservation on our part. Our way of life is dependent upon it.. and that is the only reason we stuck our noses in it.
"The oranges are dry; the apples are mealy; and the papayas... I don't know what's going on with the papayas!"
Zero2Cool
15 years ago
What did we stick our noses in? Sadam's overtaking of Kuwait? I thought that happened in the 90's and the information I'm finding that sparked the hatred by Osama started in the early 80's.


I'm not pretending to know, I'm seriously asking ... this stuff interests me.
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Pack93z
15 years ago
It does deeper into history than that.. started around WWII... here article and summary quote... this has been decades in the making.. we stuck our noses into it with Israel.. our pony in the fight..

Short .. we are there for the oil and inserted ourselves into the religious fight with Israel.. which is where the hatred stems.

http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=3865983 

As World War II ended, the United States became the great outside power in the Middle East, with three main concerns: Persian Gulf oil; support and protection of the new nation of Israel; and containment of the Soviet Union. The goals proved difficult to manage, especially through the rise of Arab nationalism, two major Arab-Israeli wars and an Arab oil embargo.


"The oranges are dry; the apples are mealy; and the papayas... I don't know what's going on with the papayas!"
Zero2Cool
15 years ago
So, my complaint/beef that we aren't pushing hard enough for non-combustion transportation is valid?
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Pack93z
15 years ago

So, my complaint/beef that we aren't pushing hard enough for non-combustion transportation is valid?

"Zero2Cool" wrote:



It isn't that over the years that better options have been developed.. it is they have been suppressed to protect our economy as status quo.

Zombie wants to sell that our freedoms are being diminished with over reaction to 9/11... while I buy into some of it.. truth is we haven't been free for a long time.

Black gold has ruled this nation.. trapped common people in the society to the pump for damn near a century. There are better options.. but not ones in which the government can control the resources, the channels to tax, and the automobile cash cow of yesteryear.

We are today paying for our sins of being tied to oil.. and it has Washington.. no matter the rhetoric they pump out.. scared to death of letting go of that revenue stream.
"The oranges are dry; the apples are mealy; and the papayas... I don't know what's going on with the papayas!"
Zero2Cool
15 years ago
If we were to use electric or steam powered vehicles, our economy would suffer?

I don't understand that because we are spending billions to import oil from other countries.
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Pack93z
15 years ago

If we were to use electric or steam powered vehicles, our economy would suffer?

I don't understand that because we are spending billions to import oil from other countries.

"Zero2Cool" wrote:



Steam.. how do you tax water? Readily available to the average American?

Electricity as we know it today relies mostly upon fossil fuels.. but the limitations on the range of electric vehicles has been its downfall. With the changes in the battery concepts that may change in the near future.

You have renewable resources that could be used for fuel sources that are a heck of a lot cheaper to operate and better for the environment.
"The oranges are dry; the apples are mealy; and the papayas... I don't know what's going on with the papayas!"
Zero2Cool
15 years ago

If we were to use electric or steam powered vehicles, our economy would suffer?

I don't understand that because we are spending billions to import oil from other countries.

"pack93z" wrote:



Steam.. how do you tax water? Readily available to the average American?

Electricity as we know it today relies mostly upon fossil fuels.. but the limitations on the range of electric vehicles has been its downfall. With the changes in the battery concepts that may change in the near future.

You have renewable resources that could be used for fuel sources that are a heck of a lot cheaper to operate and better for the environment.

"Zero2Cool" wrote:



Bah, don't focus on the examples provided geez, lol.

I'm asking WHY is Oil so vital to our economy over everything else? You gave a portion of what I feel is your answer, tax-ability.

Factor in the amount of money we spend on gas a year and consider we can put that towards other things, wouldn't that help our economy? I know I spend just under $2,000 a year on gas alone, not including my oil changes. That's 2k I could be using for purchasing other things, which are also taxed.
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beast (20-Jun) : Hmm 🤔 re-signing Walker before Tom? Sounds highly questionable to me.
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