Zero2Cool
14 years ago
I do not get this at all. Why?

Meanwhile, behind the scenes, the Heat continued working on sign-and-trade deals for both players, which were completed long after the event ended, around 11 p.m. The Heat sent two future first-round and two second-round picks to the Cavaliers for James, while packaging two first-round picks to the Raptors for Bosh.

http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2010/basketball/nba/07/09/lebron.arrival.ap/index.html?eref=sihp#ixzz0tIOUljoe 




I understand you'd do the sign and trade to get the max years and money, right? Why do the sign and trade to take LESS money though? I don't think the 6th year was worth two 1st's and two 2nd's for LeBron nor do I think it was worth two 1st's for Bosh's 6th year to take les money.

Why give up so much for that 6th year?
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Zero2Cool
14 years ago
Oh c'mon someone has to have some intel on this
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rabidgopher04
14 years ago
I don't get it. I thought James was a free agent. Why did they have to trade anything?
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all_about_da_packers
14 years ago
I think you're looking at it the wrong way, Z. Not saying that to be rude, but I think it's more appropriate to look at the transaction as obtaining the bird-rights of LBJ and CB4, so in essence the Heat could offer both players a bit more than they would have otherwise gotten had they signed as outright free-agents. This way, the players get paid more than they would have otherwise (and who doesn't want more money, really?), but still they leave some room for the Heat to sign some other decent players to fill out that roster.

What really makes no sense to me, though, is why the Heat would trade two first rounders for each player, but then go and give James and Bosh player options to terminate their deals after 4 years. That's... downright stupid from a business standpoint.

Although you have to love the situation you find yourself in if you are LBJ and Bosh; you have the next four years to become champions, while still having one more chance to get a max contract in your prime (both will be 29 in four years).


Anyways, I think first round picks in this trade are over-valued. Even with over-the-hill players, the Heat are going to compete for the top of the Eastern conference next year. That means a draft pick in about the 25-30 range. Frankly, those picks are terrible if you're looking for anything more than a potential rotational player. And, interestingly enough, there will always be teams (see Hornets, New Orleans) that are willing to sell their picks because of cheap owners. Considering their roster is gutted, it's not inconceivable that you could buy a pick in the late teens for a few (about 3 million) dollars.
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Zero2Cool
14 years ago
But they took LESS ... that's what confuses me. I can understand doing the sign and trade to get more money, but they took less.
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all_about_da_packers
14 years ago

But they took LESS ... that's what confuses me. I can understand doing the sign and trade to get more money, but they took less.

"Zero2Cool" wrote:



If they had signed outright, they would be making less than what they are making right now. By doing a sign and trade, the Heat gave LBJ and CB4 less than the absolute max, but still more than signing without being traded. That's why the early termination option becomes crucial: in years five and six, LBJ and Bosh stand to lose much more money than they do now. For example, both players will make about 14.5 million this year, about 2 million less than the absolute max they could have made. Factoring in annual 10.5% pay increases, that means over the course of a six year contract they took 15 million less each to play together. But the kicker is that a good chunk of that 15 million less would've been lost in years five and six, when they in fact can opt out of their contracts and re-do max deals again.

The main point is that the 10.5% increase in pay is over the amount received in the previous year. So by having early opt-outs, Lebron and Bosh in fact stand to lose about a little more than a handful of millions. Given that each player carries with him a brand that is their name, it's not unreasonable to think 2 million can be made back through endorsement deals. In addition, the 7-8 million left on the table (assuming they each opt-out after 4 years) can be made back in long-term security by each player signing a new absolute max-deal again in four years once they are 29 (and still in their prime). So while they leave some money on the table in the short term, they actually are fully capable of making that difference up in the first 4 years of the deal, while also making it up by signing a third max-contract in their playing career (1st was max-extension each player got three years ago, 2nd was this year, and 3rd would come at age 29).

In short, it's much more about making more money over the long-term than it is about missing out on a few million in the short term. The money they left is indeed staggering for but a select few individuals, but this way LBJ and Bosh have put themselves in the position to make 20+ million while playing in their mid-30s. That's pretty smart, business wise.
The NFL: Where Greg Jennings Happens.
Zero2Cool
14 years ago
I think the Heat got swindled.
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stevegb
14 years ago
The reason why they did the heat did the sign and trade is because now they don't have to renounce the bird rights to all their vet players that they have had for over 3 years which means they can resign those players for more than the vet minimum.
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Zero2Cool
14 years ago
the bird rights? what?
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all_about_da_packers
14 years ago

the bird rights? what?

"Zero2Cool" wrote:




To compare to football, for example, the Packers could negotiate with Tramon Williams this off-season because they held his rights; similarly "bird rights" in essence allow teams that opportunity to exclusively negotiate with their players.
The NFL: Where Greg Jennings Happens.
Fan Shout
Zero2Cool (2h) : If only we had a topic to read about and discuss it. That's something new website must have!!!
dfosterf (2h) : Justice Musqueda over at Acme Packing put up an excellent synopsis of the Packers 1st round options this am
wpr (19-Apr) : 5 days
beast (18-Apr) : 6 days
wpr (17-Apr) : 7 days
Zero2Cool (16-Apr) : sounds like Packers don't get good compensation, Jaire staying
dfosterf (16-Apr) : Nobody coming up with a keep, but at x amount
dfosterf (16-Apr) : Trade, cut or keep
dfosterf (16-Apr) : that from Jaire
dfosterf (16-Apr) : My guess is the Packers floated the concept of a reworked contract via his agent and agent got a f'
Zero2Cool (16-Apr) : Yes, and that is why I think Rob worded it how he did. Rather than say "agent"
dfosterf (16-Apr) : Same laws apply. Agent must present such an offer to Jaire. Cannot accept or reject without presenting it
Zero2Cool (16-Apr) : I'm thinking that is why Rob worded it how he did.
dfosterf (16-Apr) : The Packers can certainly still make the offer to the agent
dfosterf (16-Apr) : Laws of agency and definition of fiduciary responsibility
dfosterf (16-Apr) : Jaire is open to a reduced contract without Jaire's permission
dfosterf (16-Apr) : The agent would arguably violate the law if he were to tell the Packers
Zero2Cool (16-Apr) : That someone ... likely the agent.
Zero2Cool (16-Apr) : So, Jaire has not been offered nor rejected a pay reduction, but someone says he'd decline.
Zero2Cool (16-Apr) : Demovksy says t was direct communication with someone familiar with Jaire’s line of thinking at that moment.
Zero2Cool (16-Apr) : Demovsky just replied to me a bit ago. Jaire hasn't said it.
dfosterf (16-Apr) : Of course, that depends on the definition of "we"
dfosterf (16-Apr) : We have been told that they haven't because he wouldn't accept it. I submit we don't know that
dfosterf (16-Apr) : What is the downside in making a calculated reduced offer to Jaire?
Zero2Cool (15-Apr) : Packers are receiving interest in Jaire Alexander but a trade is not imminent
Zero2Cool (15-Apr) : Jalen Ramsey wants to be traded. He's never happy is he?
Zero2Cool (15-Apr) : two 1sts in 2022 and two 2nd's in 2023 and 2024
Zero2Cool (15-Apr) : Packers had fortunate last three drafts.
dfosterf (15-Apr) : I may have to move
dfosterf (15-Apr) : My wife just told the ancient Japanese sushi dude not enough rice under his fish
Zero2Cool (14-Apr) : I think a dozen is what I need
dfosterf (14-Apr) : Go fund me for this purpose just might work. A dozen nurses show up at 1265 to provide mental health assistance.
dfosterf (14-Apr) : Maybe send a crew of Angels to the Packers draft room on draft day.
Zero2Cool (14-Apr) : I am the Angel that gets visited.
dfosterf (14-Apr) : Visiting Angels has a pretty good reputation
Zero2Cool (14-Apr) : what
Martha Careful (14-Apr) : WINNING IT, not someone else losing it. The best victory though was re-uniting with his wife
Martha Careful (14-Apr) : The manner in which he won it was just amazing and wonderful. First blowing the lead then getting back, then blowing it. But ultimately
Zero2Cool (12-Apr) : I'm guessing since the thumb was broken, he wasn't feeling it.
dfosterf (10-Apr) : Looking for guidance. Not feeling the thumb.
Mucky Tundra (10-Apr) : If they knew about it or not
Mucky Tundra (10-Apr) : I don't recall that he did which is why I asked.
Zero2Cool (10-Apr) : Guessing they probably knew. Did he have cast or something on?
Mucky Tundra (10-Apr) : Did they know that at the time or was that something the realized afterwards?
Zero2Cool (9-Apr) : Van Ness played most of season with broken thumb
wpr (9-Apr) : yay
Zero2Cool (9-Apr) : Mark Murphy says Steelers likely to protect Packers game. Meaning, no Ireland
Zero2Cool (8-Apr) : Struggling to figure out what text editor options are needed and which are 'nice to have'
Mucky Tundra (8-Apr) : *CHOMP CHOMP CHOMP*
Zero2Cool (2-Apr) : WR who said he'd break Xavier Worthy 40 time...and ran slower than you
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