when will Bishop get his chance?

Blank402
50.25% (Neutral)
Registered

15 years ago

#21

Bishop will get his chance when he can prove he can stay on the field without allowing a big play.

blank

Pack93z
100% (Exalted)
Select Member

15 years ago

#22

Bishop will get his chance when he can prove he can stay on the field without allowing a big play.

"Blank402" wrote:

Just like Chillar, Hawk and Barnett eh...

"The oranges are dry; the apples are mealy; and the papayas... I don't know what's going on with the papayas!"

all_about_da_packers
100% (Exalted)
Senior Member

15 years ago

#23

You know, the problem is that we've got 3 pretty decent ILB in front of him in Chillar, Hawk, and Barnett.

I can understand you wanting to split time to keep each fresh, but frankly with greater playing time comes greater production. Hawk, for example, had some of his best games in recent memory while Chillar was injured and he was forced to play in Nickel packages.

Bishop, I could see being useful in short yardage / goal line situations though. Other than that, I don't think he's going to get much playing time if at all.

This might be something to think about: Bishop could be a trade piece to use in this draft. Perhaps him + a pick to move up some spots if a player Ted covets at a position of need (OT, S) is on the board on day 2 or more likely day 3.

Maybe you think of picking up Brandon Spikes - maybe you can get him lower in the draft because of his poor 40 time. But that isn't a guarantee, and if you trade Bishop you end up needing to draft an ILB to secure the position.

My point is, even in trading Bishop you end up possibly doing more harm than good. He's in a tough spot - he obviously has some ability to contribute especially in run D. But he's got some good talent above him that, at this point in time, is more well rounded than he is.

I don't think he'll be seeing a ton of minutes, but I think if he can have a good Training Camp then he'll see his minutes extended. Other than that, he'll stay where he belongs: 4th on the depth chart at ILB.

The NFL: Where Greg Jennings Happens.

Dulak
100% (Exalted)
Veteran Member

15 years ago

#24

The reason he's not getting playing time is because there have been better options... simple as that...

Bishop gives up a lot of plays to the offense... he makes them too but he gives them up more than he makes...

the other ILB are better... no other reason than the others are better...

"beast" wrote:

I cant quote the 08 preseason but from what I was told. That he led tackles in both 08 and 09 and also had x amount of ints in 09 (cant look up stats atm) - in preseason (this is where he got playing time). And ya if you remember capers wasnt all conservative like he was in the post season with his blitzing packages ...

ya he is not the end all at the LB position but a damn good one IMO and should be getting playing time in real games.

all_about_da_packers
100% (Exalted)
Senior Member

15 years ago

#25

"Dulak" wrote:

You have to take his pre-seasons stats with some salt. Frankly, he was playing against lesser competition - 2nd and 3rd string players on depth charts.

Then you add to that the dynamic of MM actually planning for the games whereas other coaches admitted they were not planning fr the Packers extensively.

Sometimes you get caught up in a numbers game. The problem with Bishop is that he has got caught up in that, and on top of that when he has been given limited opportunities he has always ended up giving up big passing plays.

The NFL: Where Greg Jennings Happens.

RajiRoar
100% (Exalted)
Senior Member Topic Starter

15 years ago

#26

"all_about_da_packers" wrote:

You have to take his pre-seasons stats with some salt. Frankly, he was playing against lesser competition - 2nd and 3rd string players on depth charts.

Then you add to that the dynamic of Mike McCarthy actually planning for the games whereas other coaches admitted they were not planning fr the Packers extensively.

Sometimes you get caught up in a numbers game. The problem with Bishop is that he has got caught up in that, and on top of that when he has been given limited opportunities he has always ended up giving up big passing plays.

"Dulak" wrote:

how about when he came in and STARTED vs the Texans, led team in tackles, forced an Owen Daniels fumble on the goal line and had a nice TFL.

or

after Barnett tore his knee and Bishop came in, stopped AP on 4th and 1 and forced a fumble, also led in tackles.

he had 1 bad play in both those games, but how often do our current LBs make a good play vs a screwup?

MintBaconDrivel
Dec, 11, 2012 - FOREVER!

Dulak
100% (Exalted)
Veteran Member

15 years ago

#27

"RajiRoar" wrote:

You have to take his pre-seasons stats with some salt. Frankly, he was playing against lesser competition - 2nd and 3rd string players on depth charts.

Then you add to that the dynamic of Mike McCarthy actually planning for the games whereas other coaches admitted they were not planning fr the Packers extensively.

Sometimes you get caught up in a numbers game. The problem with Bishop is that he has got caught up in that, and on top of that when he has been given limited opportunities he has always ended up giving up big passing plays.

"all_about_da_packers" wrote:

"Dulak" wrote:

those sound like nice plays 🙂 I actually made a thread hmmm either last year or preseason of this year about how I think how much the dudes make is the reason why we dont see certain players on the field ie barnett makes alot more then bishop and grant more then jackson (I made this thread last year but got boo-whooed about it).

Dont really care what but I like my man bishop; Good STer and nice rush ILB.

Stevetarded
50.25% (Neutral)
Registered

15 years ago

#28

"all_about_da_packers" wrote:

You have to take his pre-seasons stats with some salt. Frankly, he was playing against lesser competition - 2nd and 3rd string players on depth charts.

Then you add to that the dynamic of Mike McCarthy actually planning for the games whereas other coaches admitted they were not planning fr the Packers extensively.

Sometimes you get caught up in a numbers game. The problem with Bishop is that he has got caught up in that, and on top of that when he has been given limited opportunities he has always ended up giving up big passing plays.

"Dulak" wrote:

No he hasn't, I really wish people would stop saying this because when he has been given opportunities he has not given up any more big plays than any other LB on the team. I mean it happens sometimes look at Chillar giving up 2 TDs to a back up TE and QB in the same game, yet people still call him our best coverage LB. How come a bad play or 2 can stick to Bishop but not others?

blank

all_about_da_packers
100% (Exalted)
Senior Member

15 years ago

#29

he had 1 bad play in both those games, but how often do our current LBs make a good play vs a screwup?

"RajiRoar" wrote:

As I said, he has some use in short yardage and run situations.

But the problem is you're merely taking standout plays / stats as your point of reference. By that standard Aaron Rouse could've been an All-Pro - he was clearly not.

You have to look at technique and fundamentals. Bishop, quite frankly, is dreadful in shedding blocks. You give him an open lane to tackle, beautiful things will happen. You get someone blocking him, and he's susceptible to get taken out of the play completely.

Now you may say that is the same with thing that happens with Hawk and Barnett. Yes, but they have shown the ability to shed blocks or drive blockers back and still be involved in the play.

Maybe Bishop has improved, and he hasn't gotten quality snaps to show what he can do. But I still think he is right where he needs to be: behind players that are better overall players than him.

Great depth to have, though.

The NFL: Where Greg Jennings Happens.

all_about_da_packers
100% (Exalted)
Senior Member

15 years ago

#30

I mean it happens sometimes look at Chillar giving up 2 TDs to a back up TE and QB in the same game, yet people still call him our best coverage LB. How come a bad play or 2 can stick to Bishop but not others?

"Stevetarded" wrote:

The thing with Chillar is that he has shown capable of defending some of the better TEs and RBs in the passing game. Bishop.... hasn't done that. Even Hawk showed last season that he has some ability to cover TEs. Again, Bishop... to me he hasn't shown one bit of that.

Again, I'm not saying Bishop is a bad LB. But frankly he isn't as complete a LB as the ILBs above him - hence he is where he should be: bottom of the depth chart. You only have so many snaps to give to players.... and Bishop gets the short end of the stick for a reason.

The NFL: Where Greg Jennings Happens.

Stevetarded
50.25% (Neutral)
Registered

15 years ago

#31

he had 1 bad play in both those games, but how often do our current LBs make a good play vs a screwup?

"all_about_da_packers" wrote:

"RajiRoar" wrote:

How could he be dreadful at shedding blocks yet basically lead the team in tackles whenever he got a chance to start? If anyone is bad at block shedding it's AJ Hawk. If there is anything I've seen out of Bishop it's that he is one of the better linebackers on the team at shedding blocks.

blank

all_about_da_packers
100% (Exalted)
Senior Member

15 years ago

#32

"Stevetarded" wrote:

There are many reasons a LB can go unblocked: missed blocking assignment, getting to the LOS faster than the O-linemen who is covering you, or a DE causing disruption to the point where the blocker responsible for picking up the LBer gets disrupted.

I'll agree that Hawk isn't an exceptional shedder of blocks. But look at his play, he can hold the point of attack, and times he drives the blocker back to the point where he gets involved in the play.

Bishop gets swallowed when he gets blocked. Either we're not watching the same film, or I have erred in my analysis of film on Bishop (which is quite possible). Add to that his slow speed and limitations in pass coverage.... and I have my issues with him getting more playing time.

I think I might take a much more keen interest in the pre-season this year to do a more thorough evaluation of our players - I've finally got some time on my hands. But for now, I'll stick with my assessment that Bishop is still not quite on the overall level of the players above him. I still think though that the staff is very aware of Bishop's limitations, and hence why Hawk was shifted to MLB two seasons ago after Barnett's injury (and Chillar inserted in Hawk's place) ... because they give you better overall play - and your LBs have to be able to cover in an increasingly more passing league.

The NFL: Where Greg Jennings Happens.

RajiRoar
100% (Exalted)
Senior Member Topic Starter

15 years ago

#33

"all_about_da_packers" wrote:

There are many reasons a LB can go unblocked: missed blocking assignment, getting to the LOS faster than the O-linemen who is covering you, or a DE causing disruption to the point where the blocker responsible for picking up the LBer gets disrupted.

I'll agree that Hawk isn't an exceptional shedder of blocks. But look at his play, he can hold the point of attack, and times he drives the blocker back to the point where he gets involved in the play.

Bishop gets swallowed when he gets blocked. Either we're not watching the same film, or I have erred in my analysis of film on Bishop (which is quite possible). Add to that his slow speed and limitations in pass coverage.... and I have my issues with him getting more playing time.

I think I might take a much more keen interest in the pre-season this year to do a more thorough evaluation of our players - I've finally got some time on my hands. But for now, I'll stick with my assessment that Bishop is still not quite on the overall level of the players above him. I still think though that the staff is very aware of Bishop's limitations, and hence why Hawk was shifted to MLB two seasons ago after Barnett's injury (and Chillar inserted in Hawk's place) ... because they give you better overall play - and your LBs have to be able to cover in an increasingly more passing league.

"Stevetarded" wrote:

lol and how did THAT work out?

im not a Hawk hater, but that wasn't pretty.

MintBaconDrivel
Dec, 11, 2012 - FOREVER!

all_about_da_packers
100% (Exalted)
Senior Member

15 years ago

#34

lol and how did THAT work out?

im not a Hawk hater, but that wasn't pretty.

"RajiRoar" wrote:

And what does that say about Bishop, that even in THAT situation the coaching staff did not throw him out there, at all?

The NFL: Where Greg Jennings Happens.

Dulak
100% (Exalted)
Veteran Member

15 years ago

#35

lol and how did THAT work out?

im not a Hawk hater, but that wasn't pretty.

"all_about_da_packers" wrote:

And what does that say about Bishop, that even in THAT situation the coaching staff did not throw him out there, at all?

"RajiRoar" wrote:

It says the coaches need a kick in the pants ... and get our man bishop on the field.

all_about_da_packers
100% (Exalted)
Senior Member

15 years ago

#36

It says the coaches need a kick in the pants ... and get our man bishop on the field.

"Dulak" wrote:

You'd think it wouldn't take the coaches, who have the most access to players during practices in a league where winning matters most of all, much of anything to realize which players puts them in the best spots to win games.

That they didn't.... well considering my abnormally high posts in this thread, it shouldn't be too hard to figure out what I think that is indicative of.

The NFL: Where Greg Jennings Happens.

RajiRoar
100% (Exalted)
Senior Member Topic Starter

15 years ago

#37

there are some politics to who starts i believe. esp. in the case of 1st rounders and who is gettin the bigger check.

^ is also an argument as to why we havn't cut Harrel yet. we have to justify the tens of MILLIONS we are spending on these guys.

my wording is terrible but you get the meaning

MintBaconDrivel
Dec, 11, 2012 - FOREVER!

all_about_da_packers
100% (Exalted)
Senior Member

15 years ago

#38

there are some politics to who starts i believe. esp. in the case of 1st rounders and who is gettin the bigger check.

"RajiRoar" wrote:

True, but that reasoning doesn't quite apply in this context, though.

Hawk, a first rounder, was starting at WLB before Barnett's injury.

You'd expect that when a player is injured for the season, the player behind him on the depth chart will replace him. Bishop was that player. He got passed up on: Hawk was moved to MLB (he was starting before being moved) and Chillar was inserted at WLB.

It's kinda odd they'd shuffle the unit so much, considering moving Hawk to MLB entailed him having to learn to call Sander's defense too, in addition to learning a new position.

The NFL: Where Greg Jennings Happens.

doddpower
100% (Exalted)
Veteran Member

15 years ago

#39

there are some politics to who starts i believe. esp. in the case of 1st rounders and who is gettin the bigger check.

"all_about_da_packers" wrote:

"RajiRoar" wrote:

I understand your point, but I still don't think it's as representative of as much as you claim. Perhaps they just felt more comfortable with Hawk at MLB because of his experience as a starter in that defense and even with Poppinga and Chillar (playing time). Perhaps they just felt that was the best route.

Hopefully no one thinks that Bishop would come straight in and perform much better then Hawk or Barnett. He would have many up's and down's mostly due to inexperience as a starter against other starters. However, after getting several games under his belt many think that he could be a potential upgrade. I certainly would not want to see him in man coverage which was an issue under Sander's defense. Now, however, he'd mostly be in zone and as long as we consistently pressured the quarterback I think he would be fine in coverage. His biggest asset would be stuffing the run which I think he would do better then Hawk and Barnett. However, it's hard to complain much about our run D last season, so who knows. I think it all has more to do with the amount of pressure we get on opposing QB's.

I think there are a few teams in the NFL that could really put Bishop in a position to succeed though, such as the Eagles. They would find a way to put him in position to make plays.

beast
100% (Exalted)
Select Member

15 years ago

#40

"Dulak" wrote:

"beast" wrote:

And David Clowny has lead the NFL in yardard in preseason yet hasn't done much in the real season...

Bishop can make plays... BUT he gives up more plays than he makes... clearly the coaches noted that and that's why he's not giving playing time...

there is no other reason not to play him... other than he's not the best they have...

Important Information:

The uses cookies. By continuing to browse this site, you are agreeing to our use of cookies. More Details Close

Fan Shout

beast (2h) : Packershome going to the Whiteout unis again

Zero2Cool (8h) : Oh wait, they got Cam Ward. 1st overall right? haha oops

Zero2Cool (8h) : They could send Packers a 1st for a QB they are familiar with

Zero2Cool (8h) : Titans QB Will Levis to have season-ending shoulder surgery

Zero2Cool (19-Jul) : Their season did kind of start there, so 🤷

dfosterf (19-Jul) : Eagles put an engraved Brazil flag on their super bowl rings

Zero2Cool (18-Jul) : Benton unsigned no more

Zero2Cool (17-Jul) : That's good analysis, yes you are getting old. It'd a blessing!

dfosterf (14-Jul) : *analysis* gettin' old

dfosterf (14-Jul) : One of the best analyisis I"ve ever watched at this time of an offseason

dfosterf (14-Jul) : Andy Herman interviewed Warren Sharp on his Pack a day podcast

packerfanoutwest (10-Jul) : Us Padres fans love it....But it'll be a Dodgers/Yankees World Series

Zero2Cool (9-Jul) : Brewers sweep Dodgers. Awesome

Mucky Tundra (6-Jul) : And James Flanigan is the grandson of Packers Super Bowl winner Jim Flanigan Sr.

Mucky Tundra (6-Jul) : Jerome Bettis and Jim Flanigans sons as well!

Zero2Cool (6-Jul) : Thomas Davis Jr is OLB, not WR. Oops.

Zero2Cool (6-Jul) : Larry Fitzgeral and Thomas Davis sons too. WR's as well.

Mucky Tundra (5-Jul) : Kaydon Finley, son of Jermichael Finley, commits to Notre Dame

dfosterf (3-Jul) : Make sure to send my props to him! A plus move!

Zero2Cool (3-Jul) : My cousin, yes.

dfosterf (3-Jul) : That was your brother the GB press gazette referenced with the red cross draft props thing, yes?

Zero2Cool (2-Jul) : Packers gonna unveil new throwback helmet in few weeks.

Mucky Tundra (2-Jul) : I know it's Kleiman but this stuff writes itself

Mucky Tundra (2-Jul) : "Make sure she signs the NDA before asking for a Happy Ending!"

Mucky Tundra (2-Jul) : @NFL_DovKleiman Powerful: Deshaun Watson is taking Shedeur Sanders 'under his wing' as a mentor to the Browns QBs

Zero2Cool (30-Jun) : Dolphins get (back) Minkah Fitzpatrick in trade

Zero2Cool (30-Jun) : Steelers land Jalen Ramsey via Trade

dfosterf (26-Jun) : I think it would be great to have someone like Tom Grossi or Andy Herman on the Board of Directors so he/they could inform us

dfosterf (26-Jun) : Fair enough, WPR. Thing is, I have been a long time advocate to at least have some inkling of the dynamics within the board.

wpr (26-Jun) : 1st world owners/stockholders problems dfosterf.

Martha Careful (25-Jun) : I would have otherwise admirably served

dfosterf (25-Jun) : Also, no more provision for a write-in candidate, so Martha is off the table at least for this year

dfosterf (25-Jun) : You do have to interpret the boring fine print, but all stockholders all see he is on the ballot

dfosterf (25-Jun) : It also says he is subject to another ballot in 2028. I recall nothing of this nature with Murphy

dfosterf (25-Jun) : Ed Policy is on my ballot subject to me penciling him in as a no.

dfosterf (25-Jun) : I thought it used to be we voted for the whatever they called the 45, and then they voted for the seven, and then they voted for Mark Murphy

dfosterf (25-Jun) : Because I was too lazy to change my address, I haven't voted fot years until this year

dfosterf (25-Jun) : of the folks that run this team. I do not recall Mark Murphy being subject to our vote.

dfosterf (25-Jun) : Ed Policy yay or nay is on the pre-approved ballot that we always approve because we are uninformed and lazy, along with all the rest

dfosterf (25-Jun) : Weird question. Very esoteric. For stockholders. Also lengthy. Sorry. Offseason.

Zero2Cool (25-Jun) : Maybe wicked wind chill made it worse?

Mucky Tundra (25-Jun) : And then he signs with Cleveland in the offseason

Mucky Tundra (25-Jun) : @SharpFootball WR Diontae Johnson just admitted he refused to enter a game in 41° weather last year in Baltimore because he felt “ice cold”

Zero2Cool (24-Jun) : Yawn. Rodgers says he is "pretty sure" this be final season.

Zero2Cool (23-Jun) : PFT claims Packers are having extension talks with Zach Tom, Quay Walker.

Mucky Tundra (20-Jun) : GB-Minnesota 2004 Wild Card game popped up on my YouTube page....UGH

beast (20-Jun) : Hmm 🤔 re-signing Walker before Tom? Sounds highly questionable to me.

Mucky Tundra (19-Jun) : One person on Twitter=cannon law

Zero2Cool (19-Jun) : Well, to ONE person on Tweeter

Zero2Cool (19-Jun) : According to Tweeter

Please sign in to use Fan Shout

2025 Packers Schedule

Sunday, Sep 7 @ 3:25 PM

LIONS

Thursday, Sep 11 @ 7:15 PM

COMMANDERS

Sunday, Sep 21 @ 12:00 PM

Browns

Sunday, Sep 28 @ 7:20 PM

Cowboys

Sunday, Oct 12 @ 3:25 PM

BENGALS

Sunday, Oct 19 @ 3:25 PM

Cardinals

Sunday, Oct 26 @ 7:20 PM

Steelers

Sunday, Nov 2 @ 12:00 PM

PANTHERS

Monday, Nov 10 @ 7:15 PM

EAGLES

Sunday, Nov 16 @ 12:00 PM

Giants

Sunday, Nov 23 @ 12:00 PM

VIKINGS

Thursday, Nov 27 @ 12:00 PM

Lions

Sunday, Dec 7 @ 12:00 PM

BEARS

Sunday, Dec 14 @ 3:25 PM

Broncos

Friday, Dec 19 @ 11:00 PM

Bears

Friday, Dec 26 @ 11:00 PM

RAVENS

Saturday, Jan 3 @ 11:00 PM

Vikings