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Offline DakotaT  
#31 Posted : Friday, March 21, 2014 9:30:23 PM(UTC)
DakotaT

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Originally Posted by: Cheesey Go to Quoted Post
Dakota....I'd hate to be you if this "asstard" is
right and there is a heaven and hell.

I only hope to someday be as all knowing as
you seem to be.

I can't help but wonder what happened to you
that has soured you so much when it comes
to discussions involving God.



What happened to me is that I was given a lot of time to sit in a hospital room and re-evaluate all the bull sh*t shoved down my throat by a group of people you still belong to. Turns out these people say they are Christians yet they hate gay people, minorities, want to control people's rights and I'm not having any part of it anymore. And I don't care what you think you know, beating down others "in the name of God's word" is bull sh*t! And I also believe these people are the antithesis of what Christ actually stood for. You don't wage war on poor and impoverished people because you're too cheap to pay your income taxes. Their ideology is absolutely ridiculous, and since you still subscribe to that line of thinking, I don't have a lot of faith in your judgment either.

I'm not going to argue this God/science sh*t with you guys because I don't know the answers, and guess what, none of you do either. But I'm a lot more inclined to believe what scientists teach us with facts versus dessert stories translated through the centuries by handwritten scrolls and human error.
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Offline texaspackerbacker  
#32 Posted : Friday, March 21, 2014 9:59:46 PM(UTC)
texaspackerbacker

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Originally Posted by: DakotaT Go to Quoted Post
The New Testament was written at the Council of Nicea, where a bunch of "reputable" men muddled pagan traditions with the teachings of Christ to form what we've all had shoved down our throat all of our lives. The Old Testament is just a bunch of dessert stories with centuries of embellishments added in. The New Testament refutes much of the awful Old Testament, but a bunch of asstards still think Leviticus is relevant today.

You all can believe in the resurrection all you want to, I call bullsh*t! I call bullsh*t on purgatory, and I call bullsh*t on "miracles" performed by Christ. What I do believe in is the Messiah has yet to come. So out of all the BS, I think the Jews have things about right, except for their horrible money mongering, which has caused them the "lie in the bed they made".

I also believe in Armageddon and I wish it would hurry the f*ck up already.


You really have reached a new low.

All your weird pretense of being a Christian and judgment of a lot of good people who are, then you procede to absolutely spit on the most fundamental beliefs that make people Christians.

Expressing the Good Normal Views of Good Normal Americans.
If Anything I Say Smacks of Extremism, Please Tell Me EXACTLY What.
Offline DakotaT  
#33 Posted : Saturday, March 22, 2014 5:55:43 AM(UTC)
DakotaT

Rank: Super Bowl MVP

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Originally Posted by: texaspackerbacker Go to Quoted Post
You really have reached a new low.

All your weird pretense of being a Christian and judgment of a lot of good people who are, then you procede to absolutely spit on the most fundamental beliefs that make people Christians.



I prefer taking a gigantic sh*t on them, if you must. You ever bother to look around your church while the minister/priest is lecturing the gospel? Everyone is just going through the motions are they not? I rest my case!
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Offline Wade  
#34 Posted : Saturday, March 22, 2014 12:59:28 PM(UTC)
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Sigh.

I understand people being disgusted with Christians. Heck, there are lots of times I'm embarrassed, frustrated, disgusted, even angered with my fellow Christians. We're definitely going to answer for a lot of sh*t, and a lot of us who expect a thumbs up from the One on the judgment seat are going to be disappointed.

And yes, I know about the Council of Nicea. Though to be precise, it wasn't at Nicea that the Bible was written. The books, even those of the New Testament, were in existence long before 325. What Nicea did was choose the "canon."

One can I suppose dispute whether they chose the correct things to include or not. Given that any human-transcribed book is, in the end, a human-transcribed book, and humans get things wrong. Its what we are. So maybe this book or that book isn't as canonical as the Nicean powers-that-be thought, and this book or the other should be included a la The Da Vinci Code.

It seems to me, however, that all those questions of how human beings have reduced the Word into words are at best second-order questions, and perhaps even beside the point.

The important point is not what Christians do or don't do. It isn't about whether they were good or not, and it isn't about whether some Nicean prelate or me or Richard the LionHearted or Pope Whoever were hypocrites or evil or delusional or whatever.

The important point is what one believes about God.

Does one believe that God is able, if he wishes, to inspire a human amanuensis to put the Words in particular words or not?

To move a group of self-interested, political, self-serving, factionalized, even corrupt eusis d they were inspired by God a question that is more important is whether one is willing to believe that God interested in inspiring someone to write his Word in the way he wishes? To, centuries later, move others, just as self-interested, political, etc., to translate that Word into the words of other languages?

If one says, "No, I can't believe God would or could do such a thing?" well, then you can go and say The Bible is just another book. Maybe a historical book, or a set of novels, or whatever, put together in 105 or 325 or 1560 or 2005 or whatever by plagiarizing or adapting this or that pagan, and I don't really know what to say save to say I pray you will change your mind before you die.

It comes down, as it always must, not to "religion", but to one's willingness to take God on faith. If you can't take God on faith, if you insist on letting the misbehavior of other flawed human beings (those you or they call "Christians") determine what you believe about Him, if you insist on making Him into the reflection of ANY human being other than Himself incarnate in Jesus, "bad" OR"good", be it Paul or Mark or Pagan X or Constantine or Athanasius or Billy Graham or Oral Roberts or Mother Theresa, then ... well, then, I don't know what to say save that I will pray that God is okay with that for you.

I'm not going to justify God by claiming that Christians are good. I'm not going to justify God by claiming that Christians are somehow superior beings to non-Christians. And I'm not going to try to justify Christians at all. God doesn't need my help, and I don't have the power to justify any human being other than myself. And the only power I have in justifying myself is my willingness to believe that Jesus is *my* Savior and to trust that He will guide me how to interpret both the Incarnate Word which is Himself and the written word called "The Bible" which he inspired Paul, et al to write, Constantine, et al, to canonize, and thousands upon thousands of others who helped translate and maintain and attempted to interpret those words over the better part of two millennia.

It is a step of faith to accept that this young guy from Nazareth was the Messiah. And I am saddened, Troy, if those long dark nights of the soul at the Mayo Clinic led you to reject Him because you find wanting those of us who label ourselves as His. Finding us wanting -- I understand that fully. We are. We have done nothing worthy of special emulation. We Christians have done as much evil -- or more -- as the next guy. Call us damnable sinners, and you have it correct. Call us worthy of damnation, and you have it correct again? Call us hypocrites and bigots and unworthy of imitation, we're all of those things. Call us whatever names you want? Its a fair bet that we deserve even worse.

But what we "Christians" are or do is irrelevant to the question of whether you believe in Him or not.

Or it should be. Because salvation doesn't depend on who among us you think is worthy, it doesn't depend on our worthiness at all. It depends only on trusting and loving Him.

Everyone knows how I love to quote and paraphrase the Great Commandment. But the flip side is that that Great Commandment also shows His greatest gift to us: He knows -- based on His experiences with everyone from Adam to Saul-become-Paul -- that we aren't going to be able to avoid breaking that Commandment. Yet He still saves us as long as we focus ourselves on him and strive to follow His example.

Go ahead. sh*t on Christians all you want. But please, reconsider, the state of your belief about Jesus.













And do not be conformed to this world, but be transformed by the renewing of your mind, that you may prove what is that good and acceptable and perfect will of God.
Romans 12:2 (NKJV)
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Offline DakotaT  
#35 Posted : Saturday, March 22, 2014 11:00:16 PM(UTC)
DakotaT

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Why is it so important to some of you that I am a conformist to what you believe? Would believing what you do somehow change the man I am, or all the good things done in life and continue to do, things I've endured and overcome and continue to live with day after day? I don't need the "higher power" crutch, and if I did, a congregation of hypocrites is not where I'd go to get spirituality.

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Offline texaspackerbacker  
#36 Posted : Sunday, March 23, 2014 3:01:18 AM(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: DakotaT Go to Quoted Post
Why is it so important to some of you that I am a conformist to what you believe? Would believing what you do somehow change the man I am, or all the good things done in life and continue to do, things I've endured and overcome and continue to live with day after day? I don't need the "higher power" crutch, and if I did, a congregation of hypocrites is not where I'd go to get spirituality.



You are one f*ckED UP person!

I know I absolutely don't give a sh*t about what you "believe" - if anything, and I think most others reading the crap you spew are the same. It AIN'T about you. It's about things like FACT and TRUTH and CORRECTNESS and APPRECIATION - NONE of which you have a clue about.

America is what it is; Americans are what we are; God and Christ and the Bible are what they are; None of that remotely has anything to do with your petty idiocy and your even more petty life and problems.

This thread for than any of the sick sh*t you post in the Back Alley demonstrates where you come from. Maybe others are somehow "touched" by your pathetic and perpetual self-pity and your perpetual whine about jealousy of ........ basically anybody who isn't an all out idiot like yourself on anything political or economic or religious or social or moral, but I am not.
Expressing the Good Normal Views of Good Normal Americans.
If Anything I Say Smacks of Extremism, Please Tell Me EXACTLY What.
Offline Wade  
#37 Posted : Sunday, March 23, 2014 7:33:18 AM(UTC)
Wade

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Originally Posted by: DakotaT Go to Quoted Post
Why is it so important to some of you that I am a conformist to what you believe? Would believing what you do somehow change the man I am, or all the good things done in life and continue to do, things I've endured and overcome and continue to live with day after day? I don't need the "higher power" crutch, and if I did, a congregation of hypocrites is not where I'd go to get spirituality.



1.

Who said anything about congregations? You keep equating belief in God to belief in Christians. Suggesting someone have faith in God is not the same as suggesting one subscribe to a "religion." A religion is just another human conceptualization asking for trust in the human. Faith in God is an act of trust in the Divine.

2.
I do feel sad for you if you think that God is merely a crutch, something I and billions of others over nearly two millennia have invented simply because we can't cope with the world any other way.

Oh, to be sure, many of us believers have chronic trouble coping. But for every person of faith who uses Jesus as a way of smoothing out life, there is another person of faith who has, because of his/her faith, never needed that crutch.

Indeed, if you read that bit of Romans 12 again, the teaching is not to use God as a security blanket to ease the pain, it is to let Him be the shepherd and guide you. Its not about being successful. Its not being "of" the world at all. It's being guided by something other than "success" OR "failure. It's about being OF God.

You are a good, good man by the world's standards. And you have been a successful one, too. And, God knows, you have endured some stuff with Mia's illness, etc., that I wouldn't wish on my worst enemies, and you have done so with strength, integrity, and rightness. Nothing at all wrong in being a bit proud of all those things. For all those reasons you are a far better man that I have ever been or, likely, will ever be. A far better man.

But God still exists, and you still need Him. As Solomon put it in Ecclesiastes, when it comes to eternity, all that goodness, all that success, all that endurance, all that strength and integrity and rightness that has allowed you to handle the worst the world has tossed at you will, without Him, end up being "chasing the wind."

Your very success, your very strength and integrity and goodness, is what makes you one of the rich men of which Jesus spoke in Matthew 19:23-26. Your richness, your wealth, is not money, it is your success by the standards of man, and the standards of man, in the end, get us nowhere.

Believing what I do about economics or the offensive line of the Packers or politics or anarchism or honey or small-breasted women or any of the thousands of other matters of this world that you and I might disagree about -- in the end, none of that matters. Conforming to my beliefs is not what this is about.

Believing in God, believing and trusting in Christ as your personal Savior, is. If you believe those things, yes, you and I are in agreement. But it isn't that fact that we agree that matters. It is that, on this one point, we both have managed -- I despite all those weaknesses of which I ought to be ashamed and you despite all your strengths in which you ought to have pride-- to make ourselves trust Him.

Because faith in Jesus isn't about me OR about you. It's about Him.

First, last, and always.

So, my friend, even though it may annoy or even anger you, I will continue to pray to Him that you see Him more clearly, that you recognize better how the good parts of you or the world are still "of the world." I'll continue to pray to Him that you understand better that success in this world is as much of a false substitute for following the Great Commandment as any murder or theft or adultery. And I'll continue to pray, as I am right now, that I will be more successful in helping you to understand this.

Because while you may not need a "crutch," you do need Him.

Really.



And do not be conformed to this world, but be transformed by the renewing of your mind, that you may prove what is that good and acceptable and perfect will of God.
Romans 12:2 (NKJV)
thanks Post received 1 applause.
Cheesey on 3/27/2014(UTC)
Offline Wade  
#38 Posted : Sunday, March 23, 2014 7:54:39 AM(UTC)
Wade

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Originally Posted by: texaspackerbacker Go to Quoted Post
You are one f*ckED UP person!

I know I absolutely don't give a sh*t about what you "believe" - if anything, and I think most others reading the crap you spew are the same. It AIN'T about you. It's about things like FACT and TRUTH and CORRECTNESS and APPRECIATION - NONE of which you have a clue about.

America is what it is; Americans are what we are; God and Christ and the Bible are what they are; None of that remotely has anything to do with your petty idiocy and your even more petty life and problems.

This thread for than any of the sick sh*t you post in the Back Alley demonstrates where you come from. Maybe others are somehow "touched" by your pathetic and perpetual self-pity and your perpetual whine about jealousy of ........ basically anybody who isn't an all out idiot like yourself on anything political or economic or religious or social or moral, but I am not.


Er, well, er, um...

1.
You should care what he believes. Anyone who seeks to follow Christ should care when someone might believe in a way that is not following Christ.

2.
It seems to me that both of you put too much stock on the political worlds of man. While I agree with you on those worldly matters more often than I do with Dakota -- I do see America, even today, as the great historical success story -- in the end that is not the important question.

God and Christ and the Bible are not just "what they are." They are what it's all supposed to be about, for all of us. Whether he or we are the idiots when it comes to the worldly questions is secondary.

And if one of us is going astray on those important questions of God and Christ and the Bible, then it should matter to the rest of us.

A lot.

And do not be conformed to this world, but be transformed by the renewing of your mind, that you may prove what is that good and acceptable and perfect will of God.
Romans 12:2 (NKJV)
thanks Post received 1 applause.
Cheesey on 3/27/2014(UTC)
Offline DakotaT  
#39 Posted : Sunday, March 23, 2014 8:03:03 AM(UTC)
DakotaT

Rank: Super Bowl MVP

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Originally Posted by: texaspackerbacker Go to Quoted Post
You are one f*ckED UP person!

I know I absolutely don't give a sh*t about what you "believe" - if anything, and I think most others reading the crap you spew are the same. It AIN'T about you. It's about things like FACT and TRUTH and CORRECTNESS and APPRECIATION - NONE of which you have a clue about.

America is what it is; Americans are what we are; God and Christ and the Bible are what they are; None of that remotely has anything to do with your petty idiocy and your even more petty life and problems.

This thread for than any of the sick sh*t you post in the Back Alley demonstrates where you come from. Maybe others are somehow "touched" by your pathetic and perpetual self-pity and your perpetual whine about jealousy of ........ basically anybody who isn't an all out idiot like yourself on anything political or economic or religious or social or moral, but I am not.



Nice bait, Dipsh*t, I don't have to validate anything to you, ever. Just keep spewing the demi-God status you think you are a part of and we'll all keep being entertained.
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Offline DakotaT  
#40 Posted : Sunday, March 23, 2014 8:04:20 AM(UTC)
DakotaT

Rank: Super Bowl MVP

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Originally Posted by: Wade Go to Quoted Post
1.

Who said anything about congregations? You keep equating belief in God to belief in Christians. Suggesting someone have faith in God is not the same as suggesting one subscribe to a "religion." A religion is just another human conceptualization asking for trust in the human. Faith in God is an act of trust in the Divine.

2.
I do feel sad for you if you think that God is merely a crutch, something I and billions of others over nearly two millennia have invented simply because we can't cope with the world any other way.

Oh, to be sure, many of us believers have chronic trouble coping. But for every person of faith who uses Jesus as a way of smoothing out life, there is another person of faith who has, because of his/her faith, never needed that crutch.

Indeed, if you read that bit of Romans 12 again, the teaching is not to use God as a security blanket to ease the pain, it is to let Him be the shepherd and guide you. Its not about being successful. Its not being "of" the world at all. It's being guided by something other than "success" OR "failure. It's about being OF God.

You are a good, good man by the world's standards. And you have been a successful one, too. And, God knows, you have endured some stuff with Mia's illness, etc., that I wouldn't wish on my worst enemies, and you have done so with strength, integrity, and rightness. Nothing at all wrong in being a bit proud of all those things. For all those reasons you are a far better man that I have ever been or, likely, will ever be. A far better man.

But God still exists, and you still need Him. As Solomon put it in Ecclesiastes, when it comes to eternity, all that goodness, all that success, all that endurance, all that strength and integrity and rightness that has allowed you to handle the worst the world has tossed at you will, without Him, end up being "chasing the wind."

Your very success, your very strength and integrity and goodness, is what makes you one of the rich men of which Jesus spoke in Matthew 19:23-26. Your richness, your wealth, is not money, it is your success by the standards of man, and the standards of man, in the end, get us nowhere.

Believing what I do about economics or the offensive line of the Packers or politics or anarchism or honey or small-breasted women or any of the thousands of other matters of this world that you and I might disagree about -- in the end, none of that matters. Conforming to my beliefs is not what this is about.

Believing in God, believing and trusting in Christ as your personal Savior, is. If you believe those things, yes, you and I are in agreement. But it isn't that fact that we agree that matters. It is that, on this one point, we both have managed -- I despite all those weaknesses of which I ought to be ashamed and you despite all your strengths in which you ought to have pride-- to make ourselves trust Him.

Because faith in Jesus isn't about me OR about you. It's about Him.

First, last, and always.

So, my friend, even though it may annoy or even anger you, I will continue to pray to Him that you see Him more clearly, that you recognize better how the good parts of you or the world are still "of the world." I'll continue to pray to Him that you understand better that success in this world is as much of a false substitute for following the Great Commandment as any murder or theft or adultery. And I'll continue to pray, as I am right now, that I will be more successful in helping you to understand this.

Because while you may not need a "crutch," you do need Him.

Really.





On my way to church right now! Let's see if I get "enlightened" by anything or anyone.


Well Wade, I learned today that I can't hate the people that have pilfered this country and sold our children into slavery. I just have to forgive them and do my best to forgive and understand their greed.

I feel so much better having been in the house of the Lord today. Rolling Eyes

My children did sing very nicely in the choir though!

Edited by user Sunday, March 23, 2014 12:30:37 PM(UTC)  | Reason: Not specified

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Offline flep  
#41 Posted : Tuesday, March 25, 2014 11:24:30 AM(UTC)
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The Earth is 6,000 years old? Really? Seriously? You actually believe THAT!!!!! So all the carbon dating evidence is false? OK, ...........
Formed Merseyside Nighthawks. British Champions 1992. Packer fan for 30 years

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I feel very wrong now!!!!!!!!!
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Offline texaspackerbacker  
#42 Posted : Tuesday, March 25, 2014 12:36:09 PM(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: flep Go to Quoted Post
The Earth is 6,000 years old? Really? Seriously? You actually believe THAT!!!!! So all the carbon dating evidence is false? OK, ...........


I have said, the Big Bang - or whatever means God used - could have occurred anytime - 13.8 billion years ago if that's what science wants to speculate. The Bible doesn't say when.

You might, however, want to check out the half life of Carbon 14, that and the reliability of Potassium dating.

Detractors of the Bible act like they know science, but often do not.

Expressing the Good Normal Views of Good Normal Americans.
If Anything I Say Smacks of Extremism, Please Tell Me EXACTLY What.
Offline DakotaT  
#43 Posted : Tuesday, March 25, 2014 6:57:27 PM(UTC)
DakotaT

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Originally Posted by: texaspackerbacker Go to Quoted Post
I have said, the Big Bang - or whatever means God used - could have occurred anytime - 13.8 billion years ago if that's what science wants to speculate. The Bible doesn't say when.

You might, however, want to check out the half life of Carbon 14, that and the reliability of Potassium dating.

Detractors of the Bible act like they know science, but often do not.



Live it up Texas, there's no resurrection coming and you only live once. Those dessert fables you guys base you life on are being solved through science. Sodom and Gomorrah were destroyed by an asteroid or comet, so quit beating up gay people, dummy!
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Offline texaspackerbacker  
#44 Posted : Tuesday, March 25, 2014 8:32:12 PM(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: DakotaT Go to Quoted Post
Live it up Texas, there's no resurrection coming and you only live once. Those dessert fables you guys base you life on are being solved through science. Sodom and Gomorrah were destroyed by an asteroid or comet, so quit beating up gay people, dummy!


Sheeeesh! "dessert fables" - that's like devil's food cake?

Expressing the Good Normal Views of Good Normal Americans.
If Anything I Say Smacks of Extremism, Please Tell Me EXACTLY What.
Offline dingus  
#45 Posted : Wednesday, March 26, 2014 5:35:00 PM(UTC)
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What did you all get from Santa last year?

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