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Offline Porforis  
#31 Posted : Monday, November 18, 2013 1:04:27 PM(UTC)
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How much of the offense's success in the past from a playcall perspective fell on Rodgers' ability to change the play on the fly?
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thanks Post received 1 applause.
buckeyepackfan on 11/18/2013(UTC)
Offline play2win  
#32 Posted : Monday, November 18, 2013 1:30:44 PM(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: Porforis Go to Quoted Post
How much of the offense's success in the past from a playcall perspective fell on Rodgers' ability to change the play on the fly?


I would say quite a lot. That is why I want Flynn in there instead of Tolzien. Simply for the fact that he's had multiple years in our system, vs. multiple weeks since Sept., and that he has seen the defensive adjustments on the other side and has made adjustments accordingly.

Do I like Scott Tolzien and his arm, his demeanor? Yeah, but it seems he is just too inexperienced in both our system and the pro game in general. He has some very positive attributes that I believe can be groomed with some time. But, he was on the PS just two weeks ago. The good has been really good, but the bad has also been really bad. Huge mistakes. Pick sixes are tough to overcome, for any team, and, 5 INTs through 2 games?

Flynn backed up Rodgers for years, and has shown the ability to manage the team properly, and to make the throws. Breaking all-time team records for passing in nothing to sneeze at. Flynn gives us a better shot at winning in my opinion.

I think the bigger question is, can Mike McCarthy get his team ready to win? On all levels? That, and can he game plan to make Flynn more of a game manager, rather than the second coming of Aaron Rodgers? Make it more of a realistic game for Flynn to play and realize success in?

Who knows? They'll probably stick with Tolzien.
Offline buckeyepackfan  
#33 Posted : Monday, November 18, 2013 3:57:50 PM(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: play2win Go to Quoted Post
I would say quite a lot. That is why I want Flynn in there instead of Tolzien. Simply for the fact that he's had multiple years in our system, vs. multiple weeks since Sept., and that he has seen the defensive adjustments on the other side and has made adjustments accordingly.

Do I like Scott Tolzien and his arm, his demeanor? Yeah, but it seems he is just too inexperienced in both our system and the pro game in general. He has some very positive attributes that I believe can be groomed with some time. But, he was on the PS just two weeks ago. The good has been really good, but the bad has also been really bad. Huge mistakes. Pick sixes are tough to overcome, for any team, and, 5 INTs through 2 games?

Flynn backed up Rodgers for years, and has shown the ability to manage the team properly, and to make the throws. Breaking all-time team records for passing in nothing to sneeze at. Flynn gives us a better shot at winning in my opinion.

I think the bigger question is, can Mike McCarthy get his team ready to win? On all levels? That, and can he game plan to make Flynn more of a game manager, rather than the second coming of Aaron Rodgers? Make it more of a realistic game for Flynn to play and realize success in?

Who knows? They'll probably stick with Tolzien.


I hi-lited a section of your quote, not only Tolzien, but how many other Packers should you give the same consideration to?

I am all for the draft and develop theory, but look at this year, Ted ended up with 11 drafted or undrafted rookies on the squad, and most have been thrust into major playing time due to injuries.

These rookies along with most of the 2nd year guys, are being forced to grow up fast, and are expected to perform like 4-5 year vets.

I really hope, that when next year comes around, that Ted doesn't see the need to turn 6 draft picks into 11 and we as fans will once more be talking about "all the great potential" these guys have, only to be real disappointed when they fail at times when forced into doing something they are not ready for.

Young teams are great to watch, but I think you will find, championship teams have a good number of veteran players who have learned how to grind thorugh a whole season.

That being said, I think Tolzien is going to get his 1st win as a starting NFL qb this Sunday.

Unless of course Zero is right and we have as Steven A calls him "that baaaaaaaaaaad man" back under center.

Smile Smile Smile
“"The preparation week is where you make your hay,You have to win the week first. That’s where a lot of the wins and losses come. It’s how you approach the week leading up to the game."
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Mucky Tundra on 11/18/2013(UTC)
Offline Cheesey  
#34 Posted : Monday, November 18, 2013 4:53:32 PM(UTC)
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With our lousy defense, it takes a Aaron
Rodgers to even have a chance to win.
If Rodgers can't play Sunday, I'd give Flynn
the start as he at least is expierienced.
But Mike McCarthy already said Tolzien gets the start.
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Offline PackFanWithTwins  
#35 Posted : Monday, November 18, 2013 5:37:46 PM(UTC)
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It is a lot easier to come in and play in replacement of Rodgers, when you are throwing to Jennings, Driver, Jones, Nelson, Finley. Than when you come in missing 2 of the top 5 receiving options and missing one or two starting Olineman.
The world needs ditch diggers to Danny!!!
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Offline play2win  
#36 Posted : Monday, November 18, 2013 6:38:38 PM(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: buckeyepackfan Go to Quoted Post
I hi-lited a section of your quote, not only Tolzien, but how many other Packers should you give the same consideration to?

I am all for the draft and develop theory, but look at this year, Ted ended up with 11 drafted or undrafted rookies on the squad, and most have been thrust into major playing time due to injuries.

These rookies along with most of the 2nd year guys, are being forced to grow up fast, and are expected to perform like 4-5 year vets.

I really hope, that when next year comes around, that Ted doesn't see the need to turn 6 draft picks into 11 and we as fans will once more be talking about "all the great potential" these guys have, only to be real disappointed when they fail at times when forced into doing something they are not ready for.

Young teams are great to watch, but I think you will find, championship teams have a good number of veteran players who have learned how to grind thorugh a whole season.

That being said, I think Tolzien is going to get his 1st win as a starting NFL qb this Sunday.

Unless of course Zero is right and we have as Steven A calls him "that baaaaaaaaaaad man" back under center.

Smile Smile Smile


Very different when talking about the most important position on the team. That's why I would chose Flynn. We have to win out. I'm looking ahead to DET. I would rather have Flynn get one win and some reps before heading into that Thanksgiving game. Again, 5 INTs in 2 games for Tolzien?

McCarthy feels differently, and I think that is the wrong call. I find myself trusting McCarthy less and less to make the best decisions.
Offline dhazer  
#37 Posted : Monday, November 18, 2013 8:13:18 PM(UTC)
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I am still confused on why so many say we should start Flynn, the guy couldn't even start in Buffalo when they lost their top 2 qbs. He couldn't start in Oakland or Seattle either. Hell if it is because he knows the system why not call old #4 he knows the system better than Flynn lol.


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Just Imagine this for the next 6-9 years. What a ride it will be :)
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buckeyepackfan on 11/20/2013(UTC)
Offline Cheesey  
#38 Posted : Monday, November 18, 2013 9:43:29 PM(UTC)
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Hazer...you ask why? Because we have seen what
Tolzien can do, and are not sure he
can win for us.
What have we to lose ?
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play2win on 11/19/2013(UTC)
Offline play2win  
#39 Posted : Tuesday, November 19, 2013 6:05:25 AM(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: Cheesey Go to Quoted Post
Hazer...you ask why? Because we have seen what
Tolzien can do, and are not sure he
can win for us.
What have we to lose ?


You're right Cheesey. 5 INTs in 2 games. Those were big. If we could take 3 of those back, maybe we are 7-3 right now, instead of 5-5.

I'm not saying Flynn is good, healthy, able to make all the throws. Just that he knows the system far better than Tolzien, and has guided this Packers team to a win before. We essentially have to win out to make the playoffs. Sustaining another loss due to freakish INTs is not going to do it. We need a QB who can play a very careful game back there, with all of the chips on the line. Flynn has won a National Championship, and backed up a Super Bowl winner. I simply trust Flynn to get the job done at this point more than I do Tolzien.

I do believe both Flynn and Tolzien can win against MIN on Sunday. However, the following week v. DET might be another thing altogether. Given that, I would rather have Flynn have this MIN game to get into some kind of groove to better prepare for that Thanksgiving Day game in DET. Again, we have to win out.

This staff clearly likes Tolzien for this week better. Maybe the kid can do it. I have my doubts though after the way all of our plays were telegraphed to the NYG defense prior to the snap. They knew exactly what we were going to do. How far was Tolzien able to work in the progressions? What kind of adjustments was he able to make at the line of scrimmage? The kid has been on just the Practice Squad since Sept 2nd. Signed to the roster Nov. 6th. That was TWO WEEKS AGO! That is not a lot of time to know the system. Flynn has been an integral part of the Packers system for 4 solid years, 2008-20012, in the QB meeting room, competing for roster spots, backing up Rodgers, etc. To me, it seems like a no-brainer.
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Dulak on 11/20/2013(UTC), TheKanataThrilla on 11/20/2013(UTC)
Offline gbguy20  
#40 Posted : Tuesday, November 19, 2013 8:28:18 PM(UTC)
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When you hit the 3 to enter this thread it brings u to the homepage.
call me Dan
Offline Dulak  
#41 Posted : Wednesday, November 20, 2013 6:45:38 AM(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: play2win Go to Quoted Post
You're right Cheesey. 5 INTs in 2 games. Those were big. If we could take 3 of those back, maybe we are 7-3 right now, instead of 5-5.

I'm not saying Flynn is good, healthy, able to make all the throws. Just that he knows the system far better than Tolzien, and has guided this Packers team to a win before. We essentially have to win out to make the playoffs. Sustaining another loss due to freakish INTs is not going to do it. We need a QB who can play a very careful game back there, with all of the chips on the line. Flynn has won a National Championship, and backed up a Super Bowl winner. I simply trust Flynn to get the job done at this point more than I do Tolzien.

I do believe both Flynn and Tolzien can win against MIN on Sunday. However, the following week v. DET might be another thing altogether. Given that, I would rather have Flynn have this MIN game to get into some kind of groove to better prepare for that Thanksgiving Day game in DET. Again, we have to win out.

This staff clearly likes Tolzien for this week better. Maybe the kid can do it. I have my doubts though after the way all of our plays were telegraphed to the NYG defense prior to the snap. They knew exactly what we were going to do. How far was Tolzien able to work in the progressions? What kind of adjustments was he able to make at the line of scrimmage? The kid has been on just the Practice Squad since Sept 2nd. Signed to the roster Nov. 6th. That was TWO WEEKS AGO! That is not a lot of time to know the system. Flynn has been an integral part of the Packers system for 4 solid years, 2008-20012, in the QB meeting room, competing for roster spots, backing up Rodgers, etc. To me, it seems like a no-brainer.


I agree - ok ok Tolzien is new and wed like him to be a good backup; but like play2win said 5 INTs in 2 games killed it for us. Thats game over; Just like running backs need ball security else we lose games - same goes with QBs. Its great he can throw bombs; but that wont help if the other team is scoring more due to our INTs.

Remember when the giants were the worst team in the NFL ... we lost to them ... now the vikings ... and then lions ... got some peeps coming over for thanksgiving here in the UK Id at least like to show them a team that isnt going to suck that bad ... I dont want to have to say "normally we would of won this game but blah blah blah".
Offline nerdmann  
#42 Posted : Wednesday, November 20, 2013 9:48:23 AM(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: Dulak Go to Quoted Post
I agree - ok ok Tolzien is new and wed like him to be a good backup; but like play2win said 5 INTs in 2 games killed it for us. Thats game over; Just like running backs need ball security else we lose games - same goes with QBs. Its great he can throw bombs; but that wont help if the other team is scoring more due to our INTs.

Remember when the giants were the worst team in the NFL ... we lost to them ... now the vikings ... and then lions ... got some peeps coming over for thanksgiving here in the UK Id at least like to show them a team that isnt going to suck that bad ... I dont want to have to say "normally we would of won this game but blah blah blah".


We lost to them, because Mike wouldn't let Tolzien throw past the "9 men in the box." Why do you think that JPP interception happened?

It wasn't on Tolzien, that was on Mike.
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Offline sschind  
#43 Posted : Wednesday, November 20, 2013 1:06:32 PM(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: Cheesey Go to Quoted Post
Hazer...you ask why? Because we have seen what
Tolzien can do, and are not sure he
can win for us.
What have we to lose ?


What have we to lose? How about a game and a possible shot at the playoffs. We are not sure Flynn can win for us either. Just because he played out of his mind in one game a couple of years ago does not mean he can do it again especially when he hasn't done anything close to it since. Not that he would have to play out of his mind to beat the vikings but I think Tolzien can do just as well.



I fully respect your right to have your opinion but that doesn't mean I agree with it or respect you for having it.
Offline steveishere  
#44 Posted : Thursday, November 21, 2013 6:10:38 AM(UTC)
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Flynn lost the first game and a half he played for us as well. He didn't throw 5 INTs but he did have some really bad INTs with 1 being a pick 6 in a game we lost by 4.
Offline Zero2Cool  
#45 Posted : Sunday, November 24, 2013 3:30:18 PM(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: nerdmann Go to Quoted Post
No way. Tolzien is the man.


Knew that was bogus when you said it too.

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