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Offline Zero2Cool  
#16 Posted : Tuesday, March 27, 2012 10:24:41 AM(UTC)
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The more you folks speak on this, the more glad I am at being ignorant to the details. What I said in this thread about it, is fully all I know.
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Offline Cheesey  
#17 Posted : Tuesday, March 27, 2012 10:37:59 AM(UTC)
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That's the bad part.
NO ONE here knows all the "facts".
So how can you come to ANY conclusion on it?
Guilt? Innocence?
Who here really knows?
Would you hang a guy based on what little info we have here?
It seems some would.
Don't missunderstand me......if i was shown factual info that proved the shooter was guilty of a crime, i'd nail him. But i surely haven't seen that info as of yet.....and i probably will never know any more about the incident then i know right now.
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Offline Formo  
#18 Posted : Tuesday, March 27, 2012 10:51:28 AM(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: Cheesey Go to Quoted Post
The voice of reason.
Yes, it's VERY sad that a kid died. But there were no charges, AFTER it was investigated.
I doubt that anyone here has all the facts, and are jumping to conclusions based on the little info we have.
I saw a bit on TV about this, and there in the front row was none other then Jesse Jackson. I was wondering how long it would take for him to jump on this.
Would he have been there if it was a white kid that was killed? (We all know THAT answer).
Anytime he and Sharpton show up, you KNOW why.
And as was stated, the guy who pulled the trigger was NOT white.
But that is not being pointed out much by the media. (I think it "ruins" the story for them).

If there was a crime committed by the shooter, and i was in the jury, i'd find him guilty. IF there was evidence he DID commit a crime.
I think there is just to much of a "rush to judgement" by some.
None of us were there, none of us have talked directly to the shooter. So what do we base our feelings of guilt/innocence on? A media that shows pictures os a smiling young boy, which of course pulls on the old heart strings. Heck, i have seen school photos of Jeff Dahmer.....who would have thought that innocent young face hid a monster?
No, i'm NOT saying the guy that was killed was a monster, i am just trying to prove a point that we were not involved in what actually happened that night. We only get a few snippets of info.

As i said, it WAS investigated, and the D.A. didn't charge. So does that mean the D.A. and all the cops down there are racists that don't care if a innocent kid was murdered? Or is it that they saw the facts, and the facts didn't add up to the charging of a crime?

It's sad when ANY kid gets killed. Whether it's a good kid, or a kid that has become a drug dealer or gang banger. It's ALWAYS sad, but not always a crime against whoever shot the gun.


Oh, both Al and Jesse were the reason this became such a hot 'read'. The killing happened about a month ago. They found out about the 'injustice' of the white killer walking scott free and they blew it to massive proportions.

Sadly enough, we wouldn't be having this discussion if either one of them didn't cry wolf.
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Offline Pack93z  
#19 Posted : Tuesday, March 27, 2012 10:52:37 AM(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: Cheesey Go to Quoted Post
The ONLY one that knows if race played any part is the guy that did the shooting.
I myself don't think it was anything with race, but i wouldn't be able to say for sure without very detailed info on the case and being able to talk directly to the shooter.

It's sad that everytime a black guy gets shot, "the race card" is automatically the first card played.

There are "racists" of all colors.



Here are some of the things that don't add up in this deal.



  1. Why was Zimmerman following this kid? According to the witness on the other end of Martin's cell phone he was being followed and asked "Why are you following me?". If he said that prior to the sounds of a struggle.. how could he have caught this guy, Zimmerman, off guard as he claims?

  2. The police admitting to "correcting" a witness statement on site?

  3. I don't know that Martin is as innocent overall as claimed.. seems like he has been in and out of trouble prior. But even that standing, what does prior actions have to do with the events of the day of the shooting?

  4. In the end, one has to take the neutral side of this until all facts have come out and presented properly. Not in the media. Not second hand. Until then, Zimmerman should be counted as innocent until proven guilty. Public pressure and playing on emotions just isn't prudent at this time.


I think when there's enough will and aggression, there's no shortage of talent either.

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Offline Formo  
#20 Posted : Tuesday, March 27, 2012 10:54:17 AM(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: Cheesey Go to Quoted Post
That's the bad part.
NO ONE here knows all the "facts".
So how can you come to ANY conclusion on it?
Guilt? Innocence?
Who here really knows?
Would you hang a guy based on what little info we have here?
It seems some would.
Don't missunderstand me......if i was shown factual info that proved the shooter was guilty of a crime, i'd nail him. But i surely haven't seen that info as of yet.....and i probably will never know any more about the incident then i know right now.


So far, according to Florida law, he can walk (not enough evidence saying that he was the aggressor, thus he 'defended' himself).

If he never got out of his SUV, this would have never happened. So you'd think there HAS to be some accountability held there, right?
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Offline Zero2Cool  
#21 Posted : Tuesday, March 27, 2012 10:58:21 AM(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: Formo Go to Quoted Post
So far, according to Florida law, he can walk (not enough evidence saying that he was the aggressor, thus he 'defended' himself).

If he never got out of his SUV, this would have never happened. So you'd think there HAS to be some accountability held there, right?


So he was following this kid in his vehicle and shot the kid in self defense? I don't know about you guys, but if someone is following me in a car while I'm walking, I am going to be on the defensive. And if this person gets out, I will be even more defensive for my own personal safety.
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Offline Pack93z  
#22 Posted : Tuesday, March 27, 2012 10:59:13 AM(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: Formo Go to Quoted Post
Oh, both Al and Jesse were the reason this became such a hot 'read'. The killing happened about a month ago. They found out about the 'injustice' of the white killer walking scott free and they blew it to massive proportions.

Sadly enough, we wouldn't be having this discussion if either one of them didn't cry wolf.


But does that make it wrong that we are having this discussion? Does any kid.. any victim of such a crime not have the right to be heard?

Would it be different if say Rush spoke out and brought a killing of a white kid by a black neighborhood watchman to light, bringing nation attention to it?

Yes.. those political activists, like they all do, are using this case to get their name in the media, and yes that is a shame to "use" it for personal gain, however it has opened a case that the police were quick to dismiss.

But IMO, it does not minimize the merits of this case being brought to court against Zimmerman.. especially with some of the inconsistent aspects brought to light.

I think when there's enough will and aggression, there's no shortage of talent either.

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Offline Formo  
#23 Posted : Tuesday, March 27, 2012 11:04:21 AM(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: Zero2Cool Go to Quoted Post
So he was following this kid in his vehicle and shot the kid in self defense? I don't know about you guys, but if someone is following me in a car while I'm walking, I am going to be on the defensive. And if this person gets out, I will be even more defensive for my own personal safety.


Of course. But Zimmerman wasn't following the kid to 'shoot' him. He was following a suspicious person. At one point, he lost him. Now, I believe it's still unclear whether or not Zimmerman was on the phone with 911 AFTER he got out of his car or before..

What's completely unclear is how the altercation started. It could range from Zman approaching the kid and asking what he is doing and then getting a fist in the nose as an answer to Zman actually trying to detain the kid before the police arrive.
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Offline Formo  
#24 Posted : Tuesday, March 27, 2012 11:05:54 AM(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: Pack93z Go to Quoted Post
But does that make it wrong that we are having this discussion? Does any kid.. any victim of such a crime not have the right to be heard?

Would it be different if say Rush spoke out and brought a killing of a white kid by a black neighborhood watchman to light, bringing nation attention to it?

Yes.. those political activists, like they all do, are using this case to get their name in the media, and yes that is a shame to "use" it for personal gain, however it has opened a case that the police were quick to dismiss.

But IMO, it does not minimize the merits of this case being brought to court against Zimmerman.. especially with some of the inconsistent aspects brought to light.



It was my understanding that the reason the local police weren't doing anything because the DA was working with Feds. But maybe I misunderstood.
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Offline Zero2Cool  
#25 Posted : Tuesday, March 27, 2012 11:12:37 AM(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: Formo Go to Quoted Post
Of course. But Zimmerman wasn't following the kid to 'shoot' him. He was following a suspicious person. At one point, he lost him. Now, I believe it's still unclear whether or not Zimmerman was on the phone with 911 AFTER he got out of his car or before..

What's completely unclear is how the altercation started. It could range from Zman approaching the kid and asking what he is doing and then getting a fist in the nose as an answer to Zman actually trying to detain the kid before the police arrive.


How does the kid know if the grown man is following him to shoot him, to kidnap him, to rape him, to just say hi, or what not? The kid doesn't know, thus, you get defensive.

The more I read, the more I fault the adult. It sounds more and more like the adult (figuratively) backed the kid into a corner.

How does an adult shoot a kid in self defense after the adult has followed the kid and leaves his vehicle to approach/question the kid? Didn't the 911 operator also mention to the adult following him was NOT necessary?

After the adult shot the kid, did the adult immediately call 911?
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Offline Pack93z  
#26 Posted : Tuesday, March 27, 2012 11:17:14 AM(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: Formo Go to Quoted Post
It was my understanding that the reason the local police weren't doing anything because the DA was working with Feds. But maybe I misunderstood.



Here is a timeline from ABC.. this is how I understand it in reading a couple of different reports upon it.. FBI didn't get involved until being pushed by the family attorney. there is more on the leap.



http://abcnews.go.com/bl...case-timeline-of-events/

Quote:
Below is a timeline of events:

Feb. 26: Trayvon Martin, a 17-year-old Florida high school student, is found shot and killed, in Sanford, Fla., a community north of Orlando.

Several eyewitnesses report to police that they heard a scuffle, then a cry for help, and then a gunshot.

According to the Sanford police report, George Zimmerman, 28, a self-appointed neighborhood watch captain, is found armed with a handgun, standing over Martin. He has a bloody nose and a wound in the back of his head.

Martin is unresponsive and pronounced dead at the scene. He has no weapons on him, only a pack of Skittles and a bottle of iced tea.

Zimmerman tells police he killed Martin in self defense. Taking him at his word, police do not arrest him, nor administer a drug or alcohol test. They also did not run a background check.

March 9: Trayvon Martin’s family demands that police release the 911 tapes or make an arrest nearly one month after Martin was killed. Police declined to comment at the time, but told ABC News the tapes would be released the following week.

March 12: ABC News uncovers questionable police conduct in the investigation of the fatal shooting of Martin, including the alleged “correction” of at least one eyewitness’ account.

Sanford Police Chief Billy Lee said there is no evidence to dispute Zimmerman’s assertion that he shot Martin out of self-defense.

March 16: Police recordings made the night Zimmerman allegedly shot and killed Martin sent the boy’s mother screaming from the room and prompted his father to declare, “He killed my son,” a family representative tells ABC News.

ABC News affiliate WFTV publishes excerpts from the 911 calls.

One of several petitions for Zimmerman’s arrest has garnered more than 250,000 signatures on a change.org site, and at one point signatures were pouring in at the rate of 10,000 an hour, according to the website.

March 18: Martin’s family asks Attorney General Eric Holder and the FBI to get involved in the investigation of their son’s death.


I think when there's enough will and aggression, there's no shortage of talent either.

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Offline Formo  
#27 Posted : Tuesday, March 27, 2012 11:19:26 AM(UTC)
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I'm not really arguing your points. But here are some other bits:

Originally Posted by: Zero2Cool Go to Quoted Post
How does the kid know if the grown man is following him to shoot him, to kidnap him, to rape him, to just say hi, or what not? The kid doesn't know, thus, you get defensive.


Exactly what I said.. He doesn't know the purpose of being followed and like I said, we don't know how the altercation started outside of Zimmerman's point of view.

Originally Posted by: Zero2Cool Go to Quoted Post
The more I read, the more I fault the adult. It sounds more and more like the adult (figuratively) backed the kid into a corner.


So you are saying that in most circumstances it's ok for one to jack someone in the nose (bloody/broken nose), put him on his ass and then bounce his head off the ground (lacerations/bleeding from the back of Zimmerman's head)? Again, we dont' know what started that altercation, so Martin may very well be in the right to do such things.. But at the same time, Zimmerman also has a right to protect himself, does he not?

Originally Posted by: Zero2Cool Go to Quoted Post
How does an adult shoot a kid in self defense after the adult has followed the kid and leaves his vehicle to approach/question the kid? Didn't the 911 operator also mention to the adult following him was NOT necessary?


Yes, the operator told Zimmerman that following the kid wasn't necessary. And Zimmerman actually responded with, "OK".

Originally Posted by: Zero2Cool Go to Quoted Post
After the adult shot the kid, did the adult immediately call 911?


That is a REALLY good question.
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Offline 4PackGirl  
#28 Posted : Tuesday, March 27, 2012 11:30:04 AM(UTC)
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ok, let me simplify this entire issue with one simple question...

if zimmermann had listened to law enforcement he was speaking to on his phone who told him they were on their way & that he didn't need to continue following the kid, would the kid be dead?

pretty damn simple, right?

i don't wanna hear squat about this kids past or even the zimmermann dude's past, who's black, who's white, who's hispanic, & i sure as hell don't care what jesse jackson or al sharpton think either.

any person walking down the street doing nothing to you or your personal property does not deserve to be shot - PERIOD!!
it amazes me that some of you actually think this is all good, cool, & fine. WTF?!? i don't give two sh*ts what the damn florida law says either - if nothing else, this guy was absolutely stalking & harassing this kid. convict his ass on that bare minimum.

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Offline 4PackGirl  
#29 Posted : Tuesday, March 27, 2012 11:32:28 AM(UTC)
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and another thing....
zimmermann wouldn't have HAD to defend himself if he had simply GONE THE f*ck HOME!!!!!!

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Offline Zero2Cool  
#30 Posted : Tuesday, March 27, 2012 11:49:46 AM(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: Formo Go to Quoted Post
So you are saying that in most circumstances it's ok for one to jack someone in the nose (bloody/broken nose), put him on his ass and then bounce his head off the ground (lacerations/bleeding from the back of Zimmerman's head)? Again, we dont' know what started that altercation, so Martin may very well be in the right to do such things.. But at the same time, Zimmerman also has a right to protect himself, does he not?


I think this comment is skipping the chain of events. If they are both walking along and the kid pops the adult in the nose, yes, I agree with the right to self defense on the part of the adult.

The kid is walking. The adult is following him in his vehicle. At this point, I ask myself, why does one follow someone and why? When are those intentions ever for the good? If I'm that kid (and I've been in a similar situation, once on foot, once in my car) I am in fear of my own personal safety.

We do know that if the adult never leaves his vehicle, there is no altercation, would you agree? The adult had essentially two weapons, his car and gun. The kid has what to defend himself? Skittles? Ice Tea? True, the adult has NO CLUE what the kid has ... which makes me ask the next question ... why get out of your vehicle at all when you've already contacted the authorities?

I'm simply not buying the adult claiming self defense when HE initiated the contact by following the kid and also getting out of his vehicle.


Edit, just started reading this on CNN.
CNN.com wrote:
Mary Cutcher and her roommate, Selma Mora Lamilla, told CNN Monday that they ran outside. "Within seconds," they were about 10 feet away from Martin's body, Lamilla said.

"(Zimmerman) was standing over the body, basically straddling the body with his hand on Trayvon's back," said Cutcher, adding that they called three times to him before he finally asked them to call police. "It didn't seem to me that he was trying to help him in any way."



Edit2.
CNN.com wrote:
"Something's wrong with him," he told a 911 dispatcher, according to the contents of a call released last week. "Yep. He's coming to check me out. He's got something in his hands."

The teen started to run, Zimmerman said. When he said he was following the boy, the dispatcher told him, "We don't need you to do that."

Shortly afterward, neighbors began calling 911 to report an apparent altercation, then a gunshot.

Edited by user Tuesday, March 27, 2012 12:25:51 PM(UTC)  | Reason: Not specified

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