Mucky Tundra
3 years ago

Chile, please.

Originally Posted by: dfosterf 



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Zero2Cool
3 years ago

We really didn't sign the Smith Bros, Amos, Graham and Turner because we drafted too many good players to resign, we signed them because the 2011-2014 drafts were on average hit and miss and the 2015-2018* drafts were just flat out bad on average. Gutey dipped into FA in order to plug holes and hold the line until guys like Gary, Savage, Dillon, Deguera, Runyan, Newman etc could be developed. A lot of the frothing at the mouth of Guteys draft picks stems from people thinking GB was a few players from contending in 2018 and 2019 when they weren't.

*Clark, Jones and Alexander being big exceptions. Guys like Martinez and Jamaal were nice finds for the round picked but far and few between.

Originally Posted by: Mucky Tundra 



This is very true. IF they had drafted better, they wouldn't have needed to spend big in free agency.
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beast
3 years ago

Here's a perhaps stupid theory:

The Packer's have too many great players. That sounds like a good problem to have, right? Maybe, but what it could mean is that they will have a difficult timing affording good to above-average players, and you need a team full of those kinds of guys to win meaningful games.

Originally Posted by: earthquake 



That theory doesn't work in the modern NFL, as they cut back more and more practice times, teams have gotten away from above-average vet players... and saving that money to pay the true stars.

So the problem you are mentioning, is exactly the Packers strength... of why they're done so well.

But yes, it seems like the Packers have got themselves into a bit of a Cap financial tough spot and they're probably have to reload in the next couple of years, I've been looking at 2023, as when I think Gute was aiming for.

And yeah, Gute might have already be starting the restock. He got a potential future QB, and stocked the OL pretty well.

But he's going to have to let some players leave next year, at least Preston Smith, unless they can agree to a pay cut, which they already did once, so maybe it'll happen again. But there will probably have to be more moves too... like losing Jenkins or Turner. Which is why I think Gute partly was stocking up on OL.

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earthquake
3 years ago

That theory doesn't work in the modern NFL, as they cut back more and more practice times, teams have gotten away from above-average vet players... and saving that money to pay the true stars.

So the problem you are mentioning, is exactly the Packers strength... of why they're done so well.

But yes, it seems like the Packers have got themselves into a bit of a Cap financial tough spot and they're probably have to reload in the next couple of years, I've been looking at 2023, as when I think Gute was aiming for.

And yeah, Gute might have already be starting the restock. He got a potential future QB, and stocked the OL pretty well.

But he's going to have to let some players leave next year, at least Preston Smith, unless they can agree to a pay cut, which they already did once, so maybe it'll happen again. But there will probably have to be more moves too... like losing Jenkins or Turner. Which is why I think Gute partly was stocking up on OL.

Originally Posted by: beast 



Yeah I mean the Packers have so many good players, and seemingly at all the key positions, that they should be a good team even if the rest of the guys were scrubs. And for the most part they aren't scrubs, hell I didn't even mention guys like Elgton Jenkins, perhaps one of the best young interior lineman in the NFL.

But yes, the longer term cap consequences is what has me a bit more concerned. Though I generally think it's a good time to "mortgage for the future", with Aaron Rodgers being in the twilight of his career. If it works out, awesome! If it fails, well, they're going to have to rebuild either way, so eating some dead cap money will be the least of their problems.

Your point about reduced training time etc is interesting. I think it's made it harder for teams like the Packers that have relied so much on developing draft picks, to get over the hump. There's probably a decent argument to make that was, if not the main factor, partially why Ted Thompson's drafts fell off towards the end of his tenure.
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beast
3 years ago


Your point about reduced training time etc is interesting. I think it's made it harder for teams like the Packers that have relied so much on developing draft picks, to get over the hump. There's probably a decent argument to make that was, if not the main factor, partially why Ted Thompson's drafts fell off towards the end of his tenure.

Originally Posted by: earthquake 


Except that most of the teams actually moved more I'm the direction of draft and development with less training... and more focused on paying the big stars and not paying the vets that are only above average as much, making many of the teams younger, which Ted was ahead of his time on.

Though, Ted did over pay players that were only good too often... people complained Thompson didn't spend money, but he did, it was just on inside guys and not outside guys. Thompson would of been better off letting more of the guys that were only good but not great leave sooner... Hawk, Cobb, etc.

As far as why Thompson drafts dropped off, I think partly due to guys getting injured and part of it was due to Thompson mental health problems. I think it effected him sooner than they realized. And his drafts weren't nearly as good, and then he seemed to start trying some more new school stuff in the Spriggs draft where he got a long more length than his normal drafts. And I'm not sure the new school or mixing of ideas worked well for him.


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KRK
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3 years ago
Beast bantered

As far as why Thompson drafts dropped off, I think partly due to guys getting injured and part of it was due to Thompson mental health problems. I think it effected him sooner than they realized. And his drafts weren't nearly as good, and then he seemed to start trying some more new school stuff in the Spriggs draft where he got a long more length than his normal drafts. And I'm not sure the new school or mixing of ideas worked well for him.

I think you are spot on, but if you look at the tape of Spriggs against Bosa OSU, the guy was friggin awesome. Yes, a miss, but I get it.
In Luce tua Videmus Lucem KRK
KRK
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3 years ago
He is really really good. But how much of that is because he is Rodgers security blanket.

If you believe Rodgers is exceptionally good, and I do, a big part of Adams success is that 12 targets him an inordinate percentage of times.

He is worth definitely worth keeping, but only at a reasonable price.
In Luce tua Videmus Lucem KRK
beast
3 years ago

Beast bantered I think you are spot on, but if you look at the tape of Spriggs against Bosa OSU, the guy was friggin awesome. Yes, a miss, but I get it.

Originally Posted by: KRK 



Oh I agree, he was surprisingly good against Bosa, but as I said before his draft, if he's drafted for just his ceiling highlights, he should be a lock to be drafted in the top 20 overall. But his lack of development, especially considering he was a four year starter (which suggest he should be more developed than average) I wouldn't touch him in the top 40. But I understand taking a chance later on him.

Yes to be clear, I'm just stating that the majority of that draft is very different style (most new style) of drafts than Thompson previous drafts, seemingly looking for length at the edge players and speed WR... and that's not a good nor bad thing, just different style, in they're successful players either style works just fine.

Though I didn't get the Fackrell pick that high, he lacked strength and physical in what he showed in college, though I liked him more than Burks.
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beast
3 years ago

He is really really good. But how much of that is because he is Rodgers security blanket.

If you believe Rodgers is exceptionally good, and I do, a big part of Adams success is that 12 targets him an inordinate percentage of times.

He is worth definitely worth keeping, but only at a reasonable price.

Originally Posted by: KRK 



Yes, having one of the best QBs in the NFL certainly helps, that being said, he doesn't have a lot of competition with teammates for whom Rodgers should look at more, or whom defensive coaches and players need to focus on stopping... and teams still can't.

Adams is one of the best route runners and great with his footwork. Think of all the top tier WRs out there, can you think of any of them that is as slow as Adams? Yes that is a bit of a knock on Adams, but it's also a compliment to his development, he had less elite talent and maximum his footwork more than others to get on a similar level as those other top their guys.

But really stopping the Packers offense is basically trying to stop Jones and Adams or blow up
/dominant the OL. Teams haven't done so well with those the last two years in this system that's gotten the OL and running game on track.
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