That's the Special Teams coach? I'm good with him being replaced. I just don't think he's that important relative to defense coordinator. I think a new DC can make major improvements. Special Teams, not so much. People stay in their lanes on coverage, you're pretty well off. Special Teams also rotates players a ton. If I'm picking a coaching change, yea, it's defensive coordinator.

I agree that it's more important that Pettine goes. I was just curious about what you thought about Mennenga. It's easy to forget that last year they went through half the year before recording yards on a punt return when they picked up Ervin.

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I agree that it's more important that Pettine goes. I was just curious about what you thought about Mennenga. It's easy to forget that last year they went through half the year before recording yards on a punt return when they picked up Ervin.

I'm just not sure a Head Coach going into his third year wants to upheave two of his coordinators that fast. Special Teams is more about player discipline than much else. Mason Crosby is still playing amazing. JK Scott can't seem to punt it more than 50 yards anymore. Coverage units are plugging people in and out and it seems no one understands lane integrity.

I don't think we lost in the playoffs because of special teams. Even though the offense was inept, I think the defense is what is lacking. They cannot manufacture pressure on the QB consistently.

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I'm a believer in positive breads positive, negative breads negative. When I heard that Mike Pettine had the team (maybe just defense) watch the NFC Championship game from 2019, that made me cringe. I don't see the good in that.

When you want a kicker to regain confidence, you show them all the kicks they made, not the ones he missed.

The time for self evaluation was in the off-season, not 48 hours before kickoff.

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Okay, I’ve had a night to sleep on it and all morning to think about it.
I haven’t felt this bad about the Green Bay Packers since the Dan Devine years.
In my humble opinion, what I saw yesterday was the worst coaching job of a team that was standing on the door step to a Super Bowl.
I think I need to step away from all things Green Bay Packers for a while to reconcile my feelings.
I don’t think I’m ready to give up on LeFluer yesterday’s game was one of the worst coached games I’ve seen since I went to my first Packers game in 1956..
I know that I’m probably wrong in my thinking but right now I’m absolutely heartbroken 💔
I have to walk away for a while.

Okay, I’ve had a night to sleep on it and all morning to think about it.
I haven’t felt this bad about the Green Bay Packers since the Dan Devine years.
In my humble opinion, what I saw yesterday was the worst coaching job of a team that was standing on the door step to a Super Bowl.
I think I need to step away from all things Green Bay Packers for a while to reconcile my feelings.
I don’t think I’m ready to give up on LeFluer yesterday’s game was one of the worst coached games I’ve seen since I went to my first Packers game in 1956..
I know that I’m probably wrong in my thinking but right now I’m absolutely heartbroken 💔
I have to walk away for a while.

Matt is the best thing that happened to this team since Mike Holgren. And he might be better.

It's his system that made us an elite team, with a fair amount of scrub players.

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Okay, I’ve had a night to sleep on it and all morning to think about it.
I haven’t felt this bad about the Green Bay Packers since the Dan Devine years.
In my humble opinion, what I saw yesterday was the worst coaching job of a team that was standing on the door step to a Super Bowl.
I think I need to step away from all things Green Bay Packers for a while to reconcile my feelings.
I don’t think I’m ready to give up on LeFluer yesterday’s game was one of the worst coached games I’ve seen since I went to my first Packers game in 1956..
I know that I’m probably wrong in my thinking but right now I’m absolutely heartbroken 💔
I have to walk away for a while.

Dan Devine didn't coach a team that was standing at the door step of a Super Bowl.

You said it was the worst coaching job. What made it as such? The three spots that bothered me the most were end of first half and the offensive series following the 2nd and 3rd picks. They had a chance to take the lead and the offense flopped. The plays that were ran seemed to need a lot of protection and slow developing. I was thinking they just keep moving the chains like they had been doing.

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We all our frustrated.
The Packers has their chance, and blew it.
Rodgers had his chance several times in the forth quarter and didn’t get it done.

That and the defensive screw ups by King, add up to a loss.
Brady saw King as an easy guy to pick on, and did so.

As I said before this game, if you don’t pressure Brady, he will pick you apart.
We got 3 INTs on him, yet our offense only got points from one of them.
We should have won the game.
The one pass to Lazard that was intercepted, the D-back should have been flagged for PI. But the refs missed it.
The NFL got what it wanted. Brady in a home game super bowl.

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Winston threw over 5,000 yards and 33 TD's with that team last season when they went 7 - 9. He also threw 30 INT's, but when you have a dominate defense, that shit don't matter.

Yet, everything is about Tom Brady. He did have a good year, he threw over 4,500 yards, 40 TD's and only 12 INT's. That plus 7 TD's and minus 18 INT's helped get them four extra wins.

Brady was carried by the Buccaneers, not the other way around. That narrative FOX kept shoving down our throats annoyed me from the kickoff.

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Winston threw over 5,000 yards and 33 TD's with that team last season when they went 7 - 9. He also threw 30 INT's, but when you have a dominate defense, that shit don't matter.

Yet, everything is about Tom Brady. He did have a good year, he threw over 4,500 yards, 40 TD's and only 12 INT's. That plus 7 TD's and minus 18 INT's helped get them four extra wins.

Brady was carried by the Buccaneers, not the other way around. That narrative FOX kept shoving down our throats annoyed me from the kickoff.

Our team gets a lot of help from the officials, but nothing like Brady. He can't even throw the ball on a line anymore. Yet here he is, lobbing it all over the field and still getting to SBs.

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You said it was the worst coaching job. What made it as such? The three spots that bothered me the most were end of first half and the offensive series following the 2nd and 3rd picks. They had a chance to take the lead and the offense flopped. The plays that were ran seemed to need a lot of protection and slow developing. I was thinking they just keep moving the chains like they had been doing.

First of all, let me say I like Mike LaFleur and think that he's done a great job in turning us around from the declining spiral we were in (and despite the defensive call / lapse at the end of the half, I really like Pettine as well. He's taken a unit that was consistently bottom dwelling (as in #31 or 32) and got them into the top 10 (#9) defense).

That said, I don't agree with going for the field goal at the end of the game.

Here's the scenarios as I see them:

1) We go for it and score and make the 2 XP: Game is tied 31-31; we don't HAVE to get the ball back; just keep TB from scoring IOT go to OT. If we hold them and get the ball back, we only need a FG to win.

2) We go for it and score but miss the 2 XP: We're losing 29-31; have to get the ball back; but only need a FG to win.

3) We go for it and don't make it: we're losing 23-31; TB gets the ball inside their 10 yd line and we have to get the ball back; possibility of good field position if we hold them but still need a TD & 2 XP to go to OT.

4) Kicking the FG: we're losing 26-31; have to get the ball back; and still need a TD(!!!) to avoid losing.

Obviously, the scenario outcomes would rank 1 (31-31; need FG to win), 2 (29-31; need FG to win), 4 (26-31; need TD to win), 3 (23-31; need TD and 2 XP to go to OT).

What bothers me is that I don't think #4 (still needing a TD) is that much better than #3 that I would pass on the opportunity for #1 (and a tie game) or #2 just to avoid ending up in #3.

It wasn't my call to make, but if it had been I would have gone for it. If kicking the FG got us within 3 and we just needed a FG to tie, then I could see it; but as it was #4 left us still needing a TD to avoid the loss.

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First of all, let me say I like Mike LaFleur and think that he's done a great job in turning us around from the declining spiral we were in (and despite the defensive call / lapse at the end of the half, I really like Pettine as well. He's taken a unit that was consistently bottom dwelling (as in #31 or 32) and got them into the top 10 (#9) defense).

That said, I don't agree with going for the field goal at the end of the game.

Here's the scenarios as I see them:

1) We go for it and score and make the 2 XP: Game is tied 31-31; we don't HAVE to get the ball back; just keep TB from scoring IOT go to OT. If we hold them and get the ball back, we only need a FG to win.

2) We go for it and score but miss the 2 XP: We're losing 29-31; have to get the ball back; but only need a FG to win.

3) We go for it and don't make it: we're losing 23-31; TB gets the ball inside their 10 yd line and we have to get the ball back; possibility of good field position if we hold them but still need a TD & 2 XP to go to OT.

4) Kicking the FG: we're losing 26-31; have to get the ball back; and still need a TD(!!!) to avoid losing.

Obviously, the scenario outcomes would rank 1 (31-31; need FG to win), 2 (29-31; need FG to win), 4 (26-31; need TD to win), 3 (23-31; need TD and 2 XP to go to OT).

What bothers me is that I don't think #4 (still needing a TD) is that much better than #3 that I would pass on the opportunity for #1 (and a tie game) or #2 just to avoid ending up in #3.

It wasn't my call to make, but if it had been I would have gone for it. If kicking the FG got us within 3 and we just needed a FG to tie, then I could see it; but as it was #4 left us still needing a TD to avoid the loss.

You outline what the problem is with the first three scenarios. I explained in a different thread why going for FG was right. I've tried going against that, but it's illogical. King doesn't get PI then Rodgers has ball with one timeout and about 90 seconds. Why would anyone fight this or not see this? People act like two point conversions are gimmies.

I'll keep trying to rationalize different scenarios, but the FG gives you best chance to win is where I keep landing on. Same scenario as Panthers in December. At first, I also said I would have gone for it on fourth. I would have been wrong, lol.

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People act like two point conversions are gimmies.

I certainly didn't assume the 2 XP would be good. I liked our chances from the 8 yd line more than I liked our ability to stop TB from making a first down (given our 3rd down ineptitude to that point in the game), and with one first down being basically all that TB needed to drain our TOs and run out the clock.

Not stating it as a fact: it was my opinion at the time and still is (after letting the emotions settle down) that it was a bad call.

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I certainly didn't assume the 2 XP would be good. I liked our chances from the 8 yd line more than I liked our ability to stop TB from making a first down (given our 3rd down ineptitude to that point in the game), and with one first down being basically all that TB needed to drain our TOs and run out the clock.

Not stating it as a fact: it was my opinion at the time and still is (after letting the emotions settle down) that it was a bad call.

Going for it on fourth down is the bad call. You're burning up clock. Plus, you probably won't convert. And then you need a high pressure FG to win. If it's converted, you have to prevent the other team from a high pressure FG. Or go to overtime.

Or kick FG, don't pass interfere and give Aaron MVP Rodgers the ball with one time out and nintey seconds to get ya to the Super Bowl.

I dunno. Game on the line, I want it resting on the arm of Rodgers. Not the defense. Not a coin flip. Not a FG attempt. The more I think about this, I'm astonished folks could fathom going for it is a good decision. I need to think more about it.

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I'm just not sure a Head Coach going into his third year wants to upheave two of his coordinators that fast. Special Teams is more about player discipline than much else. Mason Crosby is still playing amazing. JK Scott can't seem to punt it more than 50 yards anymore. Coverage units are plugging people in and out and it seems no one understands lane integrity.

I don't think we lost in the playoffs because of special teams. Even though the offense was inept, I think the defense is what is lacking. They cannot manufacture pressure on the QB consistently.

But isn't it Mennengas job to make sure his guys understand lane integrity and how to stay disciplined in them (like you mentioned in a post before this)? I mean, if it's that simple why not switch to another guy (not being facetious here, just legit curious)? I can't imagine he's the only ST coach in the NFL working new guys on a regular basis.

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Winston threw over 5,000 yards and 33 TD's with that team last season when they went 7 - 9. He also threw 30 INT's, but when you have a dominate defense, that shit don't matter.

Yet, everything is about Tom Brady. He did have a good year, he threw over 4,500 yards, 40 TD's and only 12 INT's. That plus 7 TD's and minus 18 INT's helped get them four extra wins.

Brady was carried by the Buccaneers, not the other way around. That narrative FOX kept shoving down our throats annoyed me from the kickoff.

This is probably the thing that's killing me the most about this. Just a nonstop media circle jerk on how Brady transformed a losing team into a Super Bowl contender when he's been low key mediocre/bad this postseason. When Mannings arm was gone in 2015 and he was being carried by the Broncos D, everyone just dogpiled the guy to call him washed up even though he reinvented himself as a game manager/check down guy. Brady throws weak floaters up for grabs and it seems like no one is pointing it out.

Our team gets a lot of help from the officials, but nothing like Brady. He can't even throw the ball on a line anymore. Yet here he is, lobbing it all over the field and still getting to SBs.

Yep. All his accurate stuff downfield had no heat on it. When he did put something on his throws they had no accuracy. There's a reason why Belichek transitioned from a high flying downfield offense to a grind it out, short pass/death by a thousand cuts style of offense as Brady started aging and they started losing guys.

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But isn't it Mennengas job to make sure his guys understand lane integrity and how to stay disciplined in them (like you mentioned in a post before this)? I mean, if it's that simple why not switch to another guy (not being facetious here, just legit curious)? I can't imagine he's the only ST coach in the NFL working new guys on a regular basis.

Yes. I don't know what authority he has though. Offense and Defense get priorities over players. Special Teams can say I can't use player X or Y anymore, I need player Z. Offense can say, no, I need player Z for offense. I do not KNOW that is how it goes, but it's how I assume it goes based on what I've read and heard in conferences. Basically, I think Special Teams gets treated like the ugly duck and is viewed more like a punishment.

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I dunno. Game on the line, I want it resting on the arm of Rodgers. Not the defense.

Agreed. Which is an argument for going for it, not taking the ball out of Rodgers' hands and relying on the defense to get the ball back.

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Going for it on fourth down is the bad call. You're burning up clock. Plus, you probably won't convert. And then you need a high pressure FG to win. If it's converted, you have to prevent the other team from a high pressure FG. Or go to overtime.

Or kick FG, don't pass interfere and give Aaron MVP Rodgers the ball with one time out and nintey seconds to get ya to the Super Bowl.

I dunno. Game on the line, I want it resting on the arm of Rodgers. Not the defense. Not a coin flip. Not a FG attempt. The more I think about this, I'm astonished folks could fathom going for it is a good decision. I need to think more about it.

Aaron had just failed to convert his 2nd or 3rd series on goal to goal. Aaron plays tight in big games, thinking about his place in history rather than the present moment. Can't say I blame him for it, but he was pressing.

And we haven't converted a 2 pointer in living memory.

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The MVP for Tampa in this game was Kevin King.
He screwed up every chance he had.
Without him on the field, the Packers probably would be headed to the Super Bowl.
He wasn’t the only one that messed up, but he was front and center.
It’s obvious he’s not good enough to be counted on.
They have to replace him.

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