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Smokey
  • Smokey
  • Veteran Member Topic Starter
2020-05-15T17:40:35Z
While neither I or anyone else can accurately predict the future, I'm not 100% sure that any football will be played this Fall. All College/Pro games may not be played due to the Covid-19 Pandemic. I fully understand that this is not going to be the popular view, but nevertheless it remains a real possibility.

Global Medical Experts are already warning us that we (America) as well as other countries stand a good chance of facing a 2nd or 3rd wave if infections that may well surpass what we already have endured. That said, it has already been officially announced that the next Flu season looks to be worse than we have seen for many years. A double barrel national medical crisis!

If two medical crisis's are not enough, World Weather experts are also predicting a Hurricane/Storm season that could be above what is considered to be an average season. 😮

Baseball and other sports are currently looking for ways to hold their events. I feel that they will also serve as a test lab for other sports like football. Their success or failure will I believe weigh heavily upon others like the NFL, NBA, NCAA, and others.

Post in this thread should prove most interesting, but please let us avoid personal attacks or politically motivated wish list. We all want our sports back, but reality may not allow for it to happen.
KRK
  • KRK
  • Veteran Member
2020-05-15T23:05:52Z
  • Open it up
  • let em play
  • let the folks with under .03%, chance of dying, athletes and spectators, self select and establish herd immunity
  • let the folks fixated on death and bad news sit at home, watch and criticize everyone.
Smokey
  • Smokey
  • Veteran Member Topic Starter
2020-05-16T21:12:26Z
Originally Posted by: KRK 

  • Open it up
  • let em play
  • let the folks with under .03%, chance of dying, athletes and spectators, self select and establish herd immunity
  • let the folks fixated on death and bad news sit at home, watch and criticize everyone.



OK, that's one vote for a full open by the herder himself. You do live in Wisconsin don't you. Please keep your party in that region, thanks!
KRK
  • KRK
  • Veteran Member
2020-05-16T23:34:25Z
Originally Posted by: Smokey 

OK, that's one vote for a full open by the herder himself. You do live in Wisconsin don't you. Please keep your party in that region, thanks!

Reading is a skill. What I said was it is a ‘self selection’. If you feel you’re at risk, don’t go. It’s called freedom.

Further any rudimentary user of the site would be able to see I live in Florida. Thank God we have a great Governor, not like the dipshit you have in my home state. He opened up parts of the state, but hotspots (Miami et al) he did not open up. Further he protected the nursing homes, the at risk population, unlike doofus Cuomo.

So the net, the point of the thread, if you feel like going to the game, go. If you want to cower in fear or if you’re in the air at risk population, don’t go.
Smokey
  • Smokey
  • Veteran Member Topic Starter
2020-05-18T22:38:32Z
Wisconsin/Florida, both are using the same road map. The "greed" factor varies.

My state, Virginia, is the only state whose Governor also is a licenced M.D. as well. I've heard of and seen the "reopen" protesters in this state as well. As of today 1014 deaths in Va. have been caused by Covid-19. It's approx. 3.4% of the over 30,000 confirmed cases. Virginia has suffered during this Pandemic, but I know the numbers would be a lot higher had no actions been taken.

Jobs/businesses are as important to Va. families as any other state. However we place considerable value on lives over lack of economic/social discipline. I view reports from around the nation of crowded reopened businesses and wonder how long before their frantic rush to show off their impatience will result in new hot spot outbreaks. Also I see where some take a grain of an unproven theory or statistical analysis to spin it to fit what they hope for.

Too many different certified medical/science experts continue to issue warnings of caution. Those connected to a political stance are shouting their left or right views and neither is totally correct. Careful, measured, monitored and responsibly selected businesses should reopen. Followed by more in a closely watched manner that leans very heavily on testing. Opening the floodgates carelessly could spike the infection numbers and set back economic recovery that we all want.
Cheesey
2020-05-18T23:16:55Z
Whether things are opened up or not, people still have the choice to go out or stay huddled in their homes.
If you’re scared, or in the high risk group, you can choose to stay closed up.
Smokey
  • Smokey
  • Veteran Member Topic Starter
2020-05-19T02:38:01Z
Originally Posted by: Cheesey 

Whether things are opened up or not, people still have the choice to go out or stay huddled in their homes.
If you’re scared, or in the high risk group, you can choose to stay closed up.



Perhaps you will go wade into your local bar. You'd be in no danger rubbing elbows huddling up with others that also do as they choose. Your not scared yourself, are you? (Is it do as I say and not as I do?)
Cheesey
2020-05-19T04:58:53Z
KRK
  • KRK
  • Veteran Member
2020-05-19T13:33:59Z
Quote:

Psychotherapist: Lockdown Zealots Are Behaving Like Cult Members
They double down on their beliefs despite having been proven wrong.

Published 7 hours ago on 18 May, 2020Paul Joseph Watson

Psychotherapist Dr Hugh Willbourn says lockdown zealots are displaying all the classic signs of cult members by doubling down on their beliefs despite having been proven wrong.

In an article on his website, Willbourn highlights the work of respected social psychologist Leon Festinger, who analyzed the beliefs of a UFO cult in the 1950’s who believed that a flying saucer would rescue them from the apocalypse.

However, after the catastrophic earthquakes and floods they expected to hit the United States never arrived and their beliefs were totally disproved, “the cult members would become not less but more convinced of their beliefs.”

Festinger identified five conditions that needed to be met in order for the cult members to double down on their beliefs and avoid cognitive dissonance.

1. There must be conviction
2. There must be commitment to this conviction
3. The conviction must be amenable to unequivocal disconfirmation
4. Such unequivocal disconfirmation must occur
5. Social support must be available subsequent to the disconfirmation.


“Festinger’s five conditions and the behaviour of the cult believers correspond closely to the situation with Brexit, Climate Change and Covid-19: a prophecy is made, believers invest themselves, their time, money and prestige in it, the prophecy fails and the believers become more fervent,” writes Willbourn.

The doctor notes how terrifying predictions of how many people COVID-19 would kill have fallen massively short and the models that produced these numbers have been thoroughly debunked. Despite warnings that coronavirus would kill 500,000 in the UK alone, the disease has only claimed 318,000 worldwide.

“To put this figure into perspective, the number of people who have died of, or with, Covid-19 in about four and half months is the same as the number who die in five days from cardiovascular disease,” writes Willbourn.

The doctor notes how “experts” are still doubling down anyway, warning of mass death if lockdown is lifted too early and a second wave of infections.

In reality, research suggests that the lockdowns had a minimal impact on infection numbers, and Sweden’s per capita death toll is lower than the UK’s and numerous other countries despite the Scandinavian country having imposed no hard lockdown.

“Don’t expect an apology from our Government, or any other Government, any time soon,” writes Willbourn. “The Festinger effect is far, far more prevalent than a clear-sighted view of reality and the tragedy is all the greater.”

“Is this starting to sound familiar?” asks Toby Young. “As Willbourn points out, the sequence that Festinger wrote about more than 50 years ago is eerily reminiscent of what’s happening today: an apocalyptic prophecy was delivered from on high (“the science”), those who believed it radically altered their behaviour, the prophecy turned out not to be true, but instead of abandoning their doom-mongering the believers have become even more fervent, attacking anyone who points out the gap between fantasy and reality as dangerous heretics (“fake news”, “misinformation”, “conspiracy theories”, etc).”

“The difference, of course, is that Festinger’s UFO cult had a few dozen members, whereas the Covid cult seems to have infected half the world. If Festinger’s right, the bad news is we won’t be able to persuade people to stop social distancing if we prove that the danger posed by COVID-19 has been dramatically overstated. On the contrary, people’s opposition to returning to normal will intensify rather than diminish as the evidence mounts they were wrong.”

Meanwhile, Karens all over the world don’t show any signs of giving up on something that legitimizes their favorite thing in the world; Lecturing other people about their behavior.


Nonstopdrivel
2020-05-19T14:38:29Z
Originally Posted by: Smokey 

I know the numbers would be a lot higher had no actions been taken.


How?
Originally Posted by: Smokey 

we place considerable value on lives over lack of economic/social discipline.


Why are the lives of people who, statistically speaking, would probably have died in the next year or two anyway more important than the people who will die of hunger (WHO estimates over a million children will starve this year due to the lockdowns), heart attacks (they spike during periods of unemployment), and suicide (ditto)? Over 100,000 small businesses have closed permanently since the lockdowns got underway. Why are the lives of people with multiple comorbidities more important than the futures of countless young people?

My favorite statistic to come out of this pandemic: In Italy, the death rate from the disease has ranged from 0.02 percent among people in their 40s to around 15 percent among people older than 90. Do you know what the statistical risk of death from any a cause within the next 365 days for a nonagenarian is? More than 15 percent. This damn virus is less likely to kill you than the mere fact of being alive.
Zero2Cool
2020-05-19T15:02:33Z
Originally Posted by: Nonstopdrivel 

How?

Why are the lives of people who, statistically speaking, would probably have died in the next year or two anyway more important than the people who will die of hunger (WHO estimates over a million children will starve this year due to the lockdowns), heart attacks (they spike during periods of unemployment), and suicide (ditto)? Over 100,000 small businesses have closed permanently since the lockdowns got underway. Why are the lives of people with multiple comorbidities more important than the futures of countless young people?

My favorite statistic to come out of this pandemic: In Italy, the death rate from the disease has ranged from 0.02 percent among people in their 40s to around 15 percent among people older than 90. Do you know what the statistical risk of death from any a cause within the next 365 days for a nonagenarian is? More than 15 percent. This damn virus is less likely to kill you than the mere fact of being alive.



My favorite is how people think surviving the virus means there are no other effects after you've "survived" it. Winning!
Cheesey
2020-05-19T15:20:08Z
Originally Posted by: Zero2Cool 

My favorite is how people think surviving the virus means there are no other effects after you've "survived" it. Winning!



First, thank you Dr.Nsd for your post. It sums up perfectly the way some here think.

Zero, some of the “effects” are businesses being closed permanently, and those jobs lost forever. The people who desperately needed those jobs to support themselves and their families. And how many more will have the same thing happen if the country stays on shutdown?
Just how long is long enough? It’s been 2 months. How long is long enough? 3 months, 4? A year?
How long can the world survive?
We have survived other pandemics. Fear is a controlling thing. “The sky is falling!!!”
Or “global warming! We’re all gonna fry!!!”
40 years ago all I heard in school was “the next ice age is coming! We’re all gonna FREEZE!”
Now, this pandemic is REAL. I’m not poo-pooing it. All I’m saying is to let people decide if, now after 2 months, if they want to come out.
I myself didnt hang out in bars before the pandemic, and I have no desire to start now. I still will be careful when I go out. I wear a mask, and try not to get too close to others. I think common sense should be used.
Other then what I just stated, I haven’t changed my routine that much. At this point, let people decide for themselves just how much they want to return to normal.
Many people have jobs that allow them to work from home. But the majority don’t have that luxury.
Zero2Cool
2020-05-19T16:50:29Z
Originally Posted by: Cheesey 

First, thank you Dr.Nsd for your post. It sums up perfectly the way some here think.

Zero, some of the “effects” are businesses being closed permanently, and those jobs lost forever. The people who desperately needed those jobs to support themselves and their families. And how many more will have the same thing happen if the country stays on shutdown?
Just how long is long enough? It’s been 2 months. How long is long enough? 3 months, 4? A year?
How long can the world survive?
We have survived other pandemics. Fear is a controlling thing. “The sky is falling!!!”
Or “global warming! We’re all gonna fry!!!”
40 years ago all I heard in school was “the next ice age is coming! We’re all gonna FREEZE!”
Now, this pandemic is REAL. I’m not poo-pooing it. All I’m saying is to let people decide if, now after 2 months, if they want to come out.
I myself didnt hang out in bars before the pandemic, and I have no desire to start now. I still will be careful when I go out. I wear a mask, and try not to get too close to others. I think common sense should be used.
Other then what I just stated, I haven’t changed my routine that much. At this point, let people decide for themselves just how much they want to return to normal.
Many people have jobs that allow them to work from home. But the majority don’t have that luxury.



Maybe I should have spewed out statistics with no backing that conveniently fit my insecurities? 😒

There's a difference between surviving the virus and surviving the pandemic. You're speaking about surviving the pandemic, I spoke on the virus because it is conveniently ignored when people naively speak about the "survival-rate" of the virus. The virus might not kill you, but it could have a lasting effect on your health forever. That's the point. That's the difference. That's not the economy. That's just the other part of the "survival-rate" that I see routinely omitted from the statistic spewing clowns.





Cheesey
2020-05-19T22:36:41Z
No, you did correct. Statistics are thrown out there by people wanting to prove their side.
I personally know of 3 people who died, none of which had the virus. Yet they were listed as dying from the virus. So how much of it is true? I don’t think anyone truly knows.
As you know, I have heart disease, diabetes and asthma. I have survived 11 years since my open heart surgery. I have surpassed the “normal” length of time people normally survive from this.
Yes, people may have lasting effects from the virus. But what can you do about it? Like I said, how long is long enough to close down the nation? I have yet to hear from anyone that has an answer. Or even any idea of how long is long enough.
Zero2Cool
2020-05-20T11:54:48Z
Originally Posted by: Cheesey 

No, you did correct. Statistics are thrown out there by people wanting to prove their side.
I personally know of 3 people who died, none of which had the virus. Yet they were listed as dying from the virus. So how much of it is true? I don’t think anyone truly knows.
As you know, I have heart disease, diabetes and asthma. I have survived 11 years since my open heart surgery. I have surpassed the “normal” length of time people normally survive from this.
Yes, people may have lasting effects from the virus. But what can you do about it? Like I said, how long is long enough to close down the nation? I have yet to hear from anyone that has an answer. Or even any idea of how long is long enough.



I am not an expert, nor do I intend to come off as one. That being said, I feel COVID-19 might be accelerate death that was already prominent. What I mean by that poor wording is I think it was the camel that broke the straws back. I've read and listened to numerous stories where people my age have went through hell and even weeks/months later they are still feeling the effects. They are alive though. That is important, however, to completely gloss over the lasting effects I feel is misleading.

Speaking of misleading. If someone has a health issue and COVID-19 contributes to the death, I feel there should be separate categories. Hell, maybe there is and I just didn't look/find them? But if someone has a preexisting condition and they have COVID-19 when they pass away, I feel that should be documented appropriately. Reason being someone could die of a heart attack and they could have COVID-19 and I think (again, I do not KNOW this to be a fact, only speculation) those deaths are being counted as COVID-19 deaths.

CDC posted on their website they expect everyone to be in contact or have COVID-19. Some people read that and go then why even do social distancing? That's easy to answer. We do social distancing to prevent a massive overflow of patients in the hospital. It can crudely be thought of like changing the oil in your car. You need to put 5 quarters in, but if you do it all at once, you're going to make a huge mess. If you use a funnel and pour slowly, your engine will be able to consume it without making a mess. I feel social distancing was not to prevent everyone getting COVID-19, but rather prevent hospitals being overwhelmed with COVID-19 cases. We have to keep in mind that hospitals aren't just sitting around play cards. They are handling other issues such as surgeries, illnesses, etc.

So -- if I come off testy about this subject, I sincerely apologize. I'm just really sick and fed up hearing about it and reading people misleading others by using statistics. We all know statistics lie. Think about that when someone blindly uses statistics to support their argument and they don't frame the statistics at all, nor provide the source.

Cheesey
2020-05-20T14:42:35Z
Zero, your last post was well thought out, and very classy. That’s one thing that makes me respect you and your opinions.
With you, it’s a discussion. You make me think, just because of how you say things. It’s not you trying to force your views on anyone. And you don’t try to make anyone that has a different opinion feel like an idiot.
Smokey
  • Smokey
  • Veteran Member Topic Starter
2020-05-20T18:25:18Z
Disagreeing does not make one an idiot unless they were already one to start with. As many times that I've forecasted correctly, none have ever shown the courage to step up and admit they were wrong. Instead they play the "Trump" card and target/blame others to deflect failed postings.

If my post make any feel like an idiot or some other derogatory noun it's not because I attacked anyone, but because they are seeing these things about themselves.

I too want sports begin again, but I'm not blind to the possible reasons that might stand in the path. If the NFL does encounter Pandemic difficulties with the 2020 regular season, but can resume play in December or January, I propose a single elimination tournament that would culminate in the Super Bowl.

It would start with all teams names placed on a bowl and drawn randomly to determine who will play who in week 1. The odd teams will start as home teams and week 2 home team would be determined by a roll of the dice. Saturday and Sunday games would be played in the 16 game and 8 game and 4 game rounds. The Semi-final games would be played on Sunday and the Super Bowl the following Sunday. A pro bowl would not be played, but players could be so honored after the tournament concludes. 5 weeks of football would be better than no football at all!
Cheesey
2020-05-20T21:24:13Z
Geez Smokey...you are so full of yourself!
You name call, use the “Trump” card as a swipe at people here (me, for example) then pretend like you don’t do those things. You started this thread saying not to name call, not to make it political, then do that yourself.
Better be careful! It’s a long fall from the pedestal you put yourself on!
And if you ever are right, I’ll admit it.
Just keep spewing your “I’m smarter then anyone” garbage. It used to upset me. Now it just makes me laugh!😏
Sooner or later you will do like you did before, and get yourself kicked off here. I have faith in you. You don’t play well with others.
Smokey
  • Smokey
  • Veteran Member Topic Starter
2020-05-21T02:23:34Z
I've heard too many nationally recognized leaders that are more eloquent than myself with whom I share the same views to be intimidated by some invisible internet keypounder. If you read my post and feel emotional, then either you are hiding a small cube in a back corner that wants to agree with me or like too many others you refuse to admit that more than your views are possible.

As for being right on issues ranging from the Packers to this Pandemic, just posting a wish list does not cut the cheese. I've consistently posted for a more dominant Packer running attack and we saw last season the first view of LaFleur's offensive system that places more weight on the running game. This system requires both good running and good run blocking. Therefor many of the 2020 Draft choices will strengthen the depth of the team LaFleur is building. The WR cries I'm reading fail to see this evolution as they remain thinking in past tense terms. Gutekunst is fully aware of the WR moans and groans. I feel sure that he will address it as he did with the defense last season. I don't look for GB to acquire an Odell Beckham or some other top 10 WR, but I'm confident that changes will be taking place.

Weather football will be played this fall remains uncertain. I too want to see the games played, but I won't dismiss the real possibilities that we have just seen the first wave of this Pandemic and more waves could be on the way. It's not a prediction, but an honest look at what is possible based upon past virus cases.
Cheesey
2020-05-21T02:52:24Z
So....you found people that agree with you, so that means you have to be right. 😂😂😂

Oh....and by the way.....what about you saying at the beginning of this thread not to make it political, or to name call? You did real well with that, didn’t you?
You can’t even follow your own rules.
Zero2Cool
2020-05-21T11:41:14Z
Well, I've had enough of this thread.
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Cheesey (25-Nov) : This is the “fan shout”. Why come here if all you intend to do is ruin it
Cheesey (25-Nov) : It makes it easier for you to be blind to any facts when you are so close minded.
Cheesey (25-Nov) : Did I say anything even remotely racist? Nope. But you throw out the race card at every point.
Cheesey (25-Nov) : I love how people like you throw our racist garbage that’s not true when you have no logical honest thing to say.
Smokey (25-Nov) : Go clean your gun and complain about how the non-white races are just ruining your narrow vision of a more selfish union.
Cheesey (25-Nov) : Oh snap again Zero!!!’😂
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Cheesey (25-Nov) : 😂so true, KRK!!!😁
KRK (25-Nov) : Conspiracy Theories, like Russia, Russia, Russia
Cheesey (25-Nov) : Whatever you say Smokey. I think you need professional help!🤪😂
Smokey (25-Nov) : Fake Government/conspiracy theories (including H. Biden) is on the way out.
Cheesey (25-Nov) : Trump pardoned Hunter Biden today?!?!?😂😂😂
nerdmann (24-Nov) : If they can steal this election, they're gonna make him pay.
nerdmann (24-Nov) : Trump took the military dictatorship away from the people who overthrew the US Government on 911.
Smokey (24-Nov) : Trump pardoned a turkey today, but what fellow criminals will he pardon before he finally leaves the WH.
Cheesey (24-Nov) : Yup Zero! He’s gonna take his toys and go home!!!😂😂😂
Zero2Cool (24-Nov) : lol dude is major butt hurt, so bad he tries throwing a trump card. not a good look
Smokey (24-Nov) : Snap on that ! and O yeah, Trump the 1st and last will soon be only a bad memory for history.
Smokey (24-Nov) : Not every topic/post merits reading, but I do my due diligence posting or starting a new thread.
Cheesey (24-Nov) : Oh!!! SNAP! Zero!😂
Zero2Cool (24-Nov) : Interesting. You don't read every topic or post, yet blast others for not reading. Fascinating.
Smokey (24-Nov) : being that I've never read your power rankings thread, congratulating 2 pickers on a good week seemed an K thing to do.
Zero2Cool (24-Nov) : Hey boss, since you posted that in the shout, am I still able to put that in the Power Rankings thread?? Asking for the admin.
Smokey (24-Nov) : dhaser/porky88, 10 - 4 in week 11 Pick'em ! Great job in a strange week.
Cheesey (24-Nov) : The only reason MVS shouldn’t respond to idiots like that is that might cause other idiots to post crap like that.
Zero2Cool (23-Nov) : 83 wasn't crying or whining. Just stating a fact.
Zero2Cool (23-Nov) : Nope. Social media is a sesspool for ignorant piles of shit. No tissue needed.
KRK (23-Nov) : Sorry *got an issue, get a tissue
KRK (23-Nov) : 83 should STFU and do his job. He wanted to play in the bigs, deal with the criticism. Go an issue, get a tissue..and you can forward my email to him if he wants it.
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