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Offline nerdmann  
#16 Posted : Thursday, July 17, 2014 4:21:17 PM(UTC)
nerdmann

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Originally Posted by: DoddPower Go to Quoted Post
AJ Hawk is not the problem. Teams can win with AJ Hawk, as the Packers have done. The biggest problem is the players around Hawk and/or the failure to find someone better. Hawk isn't the greatest, but there are many worse players in the league. I have no doubt he would be a very good #2 ILB beside a very good #1. The Packers just can't seem to find a very good #1 ILB, so Hawk keeps having to play that role.

He could be better, but he could be much, much, worse. I'm OK with him. The Packers just need to improve all of the other linebacker positions with players that will stay healthy. At least he showed a little improvement last season. Every team needs guys like AJ Hawk.


Move him to FB, ditch Kuhn.
“Winning is not a sometime thing, it is an all the time thing. You don't do things right once in a while…you do them right all the time.”
Offline uffda udfa  
#17 Posted : Thursday, July 17, 2014 4:36:21 PM(UTC)
uffda udfa

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AJ Hawk is or isn't a problem depending on context.

Is AJ Hawk worth a cap hit of 5.1 million this year? No. It would cost too much to cut him, though, with 3.2 million in dead money should he be released. Ain't happening. We're stuck with Hawk at 5.1 million this season. Depressing to me.

Has AJ Hawk lived up to his draft status? Nope... nowhere near it. A total failure as a 5th overall.

Does AJ Hawk have value in general? Yes...but it's limited and limited to 1st and 2nd down. He's not even a 3 down LB. Again, 5.1 million for 2 mediocrely played downs.

Does AJ Hawk have the confidence of Dom Capers? Yes...he "runs" the D. So, is that a positive. Has Hawk's running of our D been a good thing? Packers think it is. I don't really know.

Does AJ Hawk show up week to week? Yes, he brings his middling skills almost every Sunday.

Did he have one of his better years last season? Yes. Remarkably, so. Not sure how/why this happened considering he had little help around him. Anomaly, or sign of better days for AJ? Hard to say considering he's been average for years and a little better than that last season.

For my money, AJ Hawk is the poster child for everything I hate about our organizational approach. He's okay ...just not good enough but we'll keep on going with him, at least he's reliable and "could be worse".
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Offline Dexter_Sinister  
#18 Posted : Thursday, July 17, 2014 6:22:15 PM(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: uffda udfa Go to Quoted Post
AJ Hawk is or isn't a problem depending on context.

Is AJ Hawk worth a cap hit of 5.1 million this year? No. It would cost too much to cut him, though, with 3.2 million in dead money should he be released. Ain't happening. We're stuck with Hawk at 5.1 million this season. Depressing to me.

Has AJ Hawk lived up to his draft status? Nope... nowhere near it. A total failure as a 5th overall.

Does AJ Hawk have value in general? Yes...but it's limited and limited to 1st and 2nd down. He's not even a 3 down LB. Again, 5.1 million for 2 mediocrely played downs.

Does AJ Hawk have the confidence of Dom Capers? Yes...he "runs" the D. So, is that a positive. Has Hawk's running of our D been a good thing? Packers think it is. I don't really know.

Does AJ Hawk show up week to week? Yes, he brings his middling skills almost every Sunday.

Did he have one of his better years last season? Yes. Remarkably, so. Not sure how/why this happened considering he had little help around him. Anomaly, or sign of better days for AJ? Hard to say considering he's been average for years and a little better than that last season.

For my money, AJ Hawk is the poster child for everything I hate about our organizational approach. He's okay ...just not good enough but we'll keep on going with him, at least he's reliable and "could be worse".


Hawk is the 5th best player taken in the first round of the '06 draft.

He lived up to his status.
I want to go out like my Grandpa did. Peacefully in his sleep.

Not screaming in terror like his passengers.
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nerdmann on 7/17/2014(UTC)
Offline uffda udfa  
#19 Posted : Thursday, July 17, 2014 6:38:24 PM(UTC)
uffda udfa

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Originally Posted by: Dexter_Sinister Go to Quoted Post
Hawk is the 5th best player taken in the first round of the '06 draft.

He lived up to his status.


LOL! Are you serious? So, using your logic, (here we go again) Alex Smith is better than Aaron Rodgers because Smith went 1st overall and Aaron 24th? You should be glad you're not a Niners fan or that's the kind of thing you'd be drafting in defense of your team taking Alex Smith...he was best because he was 1st. Wow.

Vernon Davis went 6th overall, but he's not as good because Green Bay made the mistake of selecting Hawk instead? Haloti Ngata went 9th overall...but he's not as good as Hawk because we didn't draft him at 5? I'll take Nick Mangold or Tamba Hali from that 1st round over AJ. I would mention the guys before him, too, but they're out of bounds because being drafted higher means better? Face. Palm.

Wait, or do you mean that Hawk was the 5th best if you look at the players 1-32 and ranked them?
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Offline nerdmann  
#20 Posted : Thursday, July 17, 2014 6:58:26 PM(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: uffda udfa Go to Quoted Post
LOL! Are you serious? So, using your logic, (here we go again) Alex Smith is better than Aaron Rodgers because Smith went 1st overall and Aaron 24th? You should be glad you're not a Niners fan or that's the kind of thing you'd be drafting in defense of your team taking Alex Smith...he was best because he was 1st. Wow.

Vernon Davis went 6th overall, but he's not as good because Green Bay made the mistake of selecting Hawk instead? Haloti Ngata went 9th overall...but he's not as good as Hawk because we didn't draft him at 5? I'll take Nick Mangold or Tamba Hali from that 1st round over AJ. I would mention the guys before him, too, but they're out of bounds because being drafted higher means better? Face. Palm.

Wait, or do you mean that Hawk was the 5th best if you look at the players 1-32 and ranked them?


That's not what he's saying, as I read him. He might say that Alex Smith didn't live up to his draft position, because he's not better than the players taken around him, probably not better than Aaron Rodgers.
“Winning is not a sometime thing, it is an all the time thing. You don't do things right once in a while…you do them right all the time.”
Offline uffda udfa  
#21 Posted : Thursday, July 17, 2014 7:33:46 PM(UTC)
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Who knows, nerd? All I know is there were at least 4 guys drafted AFTER he was that I'd rather have.

When you draft #5 in Round 1 you sure hope you get a lot better player than AJ Hawk. Sadly, we did not.
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Offline beast  
#22 Posted : Thursday, July 17, 2014 8:38:50 PM(UTC)
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I honestly think if Thompson drafted a player that completely busted he would be getting less grief for it than Hawk... for some reason people love complaining about Hawk... who I honestly think was partly messed up by the read and react 4-3 defense they had when he first got here and he kept getting worse after coming from a more aggressive college defense.

Hawk was deemed as the safest pick in the draft... and that seems to be true as he's been extremely solid his whole career. Though he hasn't had the best upside... though I still think he was messed up a bit by conservative defense the Packers had early in his career.
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Offline DakotaT  
#23 Posted : Friday, July 18, 2014 4:51:39 AM(UTC)
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Really, what we should complain about with Hawk and Brad Jones is their contracts. They are way overpaid for the quality of linebacker each is. I'm not sure why Uncle Ted gives these guys the kind of coin they receive, but it is not warranted. All you need to do is compare Hawk/Jones to Bowman/Willis and it is pretty easy to see why the middle of our defense is a sieve.

Hopefully we are a little more stoudt on the D-line this season so those guys can be protected more, but our poor to average inside linebacker play is where opposing offensive coordinators attack.
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Offline sschind  
#24 Posted : Friday, July 18, 2014 6:11:53 AM(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: uffda udfa Go to Quoted Post
Who knows, nerd? All I know is there were at least 4 guys drafted AFTER he was that I'd rather have.

When you draft #5 in Round 1 you sure hope you get a lot better player than AJ Hawk. Sadly, we did not.


On the other hand, sometimes you get much worse. I know, I know, there I go again with the "he's OK and that's OK" argument when I really should be bitching and complaining that Ted didn't knock one out of the park with the #5 pick that year. What we really should have done is traded that pick and the following years pick for a player like Jimmy Graham. When you make the pick that 95% of the people in the world think you should pick its not like he reached and took somebody who fell flat on his face. The player might not turn out to be what you hoped but the choice to take him, at the time, was still sound

As much as a disaster Tony Mandarich was you really don't hear Tom Braatz taking too much crap for picking Mandarich in 89 as Mandarich was pretty much the consensus pick there even over Barry he just flopped. Yeah you hear how the pick was a bust but you don't see get much blame thrown at the GM for making it. Its the same with Hawk. Yeah the pick didn't turn out to be a stud like you would hope (like you hope with every pick) but when you take that guy that most people think you should take how can it really be a bad pick?

You say it was a no brainer for Ted to pick Rodgers (or at least some people say that maybe not you) but there was probably far less consensus there than with Hawk. If the Rodgers pick was a no brainer then the Hawk pick was even more so.

IMO after the 4th or 5th season it really doesn't matter what round a guy was drafted in. After 5 years in the league would you take Ryan Leaf or Tom Brady? You have what you have, A superstar, a star, a contributor or a dud. It doesn't matter if you got them in the first round or as an UDFA the important factor is that you got him. Its like the 12 year vets announcing what college they went to in game intros. Who the hell cares, you probably didn't get a degree anyway and from the way it sounds many of them can't even read or write.
I respect your right to have your opinion but that doesn't mean I agree with it or respect you for having it.
Offline steveishere  
#25 Posted : Friday, July 18, 2014 6:19:28 AM(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: uffda udfa Go to Quoted Post
Who knows, nerd? All I know is there were at least 4 guys drafted AFTER he was that I'd rather have.

When you draft #5 in Round 1 you sure hope you get a lot better player than AJ Hawk. Sadly, we did not.


You hope you do but it matters how good the rest of the players you had to choose from are if you are going to use hindsight to judge it. There were better players than Hawk available sure but not that many and they weren't that much better. I'm fine with getting Hawk in that draft but for example if we had drafted top 5 in 2011 and gotten someone of Hawks calibre it wouldn't be quite as fine because that draft was completely loaded at the top with elite talent.

Just saying top 5 pick must be elite or bust is way to simple of a judgement to make for something as complex as the draft.
Offline QCHuskerFan  
#26 Posted : Monday, July 28, 2014 8:57:40 AM(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: uffda udfa Go to Quoted Post
About even with Mario Williams? Mario has averaged nearly 10 sacks a season for 8 years. He had one season he appeared in only 5 games which keeps his average slightly below 10/season. Last year he had 13 sacks. I can't see how a guy who impacts games the way Mario Williams does could ever be compared to a steady eddie like AJ Hawk? The comparison of being "even" is way off to me. They're not even in the same strata. Hawk goes 2.5 seasons with ZERO splash plays but "at least he's on the field" is the battle cry for him? I admire durability but it fits nowhere with the much preferred productivity. If you could choose, right now... Hawk or Williams are you telling me you'd just keep AJ? Gimme Mario, yesterday.

I consider Nick Perry to be a major disappointment due to health. Casey Hayward I consider a budding young star who had an excellent 1st season and a lost 2nd. Perry has shown some exciting things but I question that guys heart. I don't see the passion for the game out of him.

Obviously, you've gotten past the idea he's a 5th overall and way overpaid. I haven't on either front.

Hawk is a middling steady player. Nothing spectacular or worthy of getting excited about. There's definitely a lot better out there. Why we haven't found it or tried very hard is beyond me. He's a ZERO time probowl starter... Mario has 3 starts.

I love this quote from Hawk from JSOnline.com:

Yes, he absolutely wishes he could make more big plays.

"I'd love to," he says. "I'd love to get more picks, force more fumbles and get more sacks. I'm constantly trying. I don't really have an answer, I guess."

---At least he's not making excuses for not being good enough. I admire that as much as his durability.




Mario Williams has made Zero plays for the Texans in over 2 years. Texans got 4 very good years of production from him. That's it. Then he got hurt and moved on. The fact that he resurrected his career after leaving the team that drafted him does not make him a better pick for them.
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