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Offline Pack93z  
#1 Posted : Monday, November 25, 2013 10:17:08 AM(UTC)
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Well that should end all the Cardinals ethical statements about the Brewers keeping Braun. Shame on you

I wonder what kind of contract language in buried in that contract to protect the Cards.

I think when there's enough will and aggression, there's no shortage of talent either.

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Offline wpr  
#2 Posted : Monday, November 25, 2013 10:24:04 AM(UTC)
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Have you ever seen the Cardinals organization ever make an ethical statement about the Brewers not being able to keep Braun? He paid his dues. (As did Peralta. At least Jhonny didn't vehemently and repeatedly lie about it and get someone fired over the whole deal.)

Time to move on.
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Offline Pack93z  
#3 Posted : Monday, November 25, 2013 10:43:47 AM(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: wpr Go to Quoted Post
Have you ever seen the Cardinals organization ever make an ethical statement about the Brewers not being able to keep Braun?


Could have sworn that I heard Cards players and fans alike berate Braun over and over.. and over again. I wonder if they will "Boo" Johnny? Litter him with insult upon insult...

Originally Posted by: wpr Go to Quoted Post

He paid his dues. (As did Peralta. At least Jhonny didn't vehemently and repeatedly lie about it and get someone fired over the whole deal.)


Hmmmmm...

Source wrote:
Detroit Tigers shortstop Jhonny Peralta's name is in the records of Anthony Bosch, director of the Biogenesis clinic in Florida, which is under investigation by MLB for performance-enhancing drugs, reports SI.com's Tom Verducci.

Peralta does not appear to be tied to PEDs. He released a statement through his attorney, Barry Boss, saying: "I have never used performance enhancing drugs. Period. Anybody who says otherwise is lying."


I agree... it is time to move on for the most part. I think Braun deserves any critical statements about lying and especially for throwing others under the bus. Just noting that now that the Cards have a proven PED user on the roster, all the Cardinals only win the right way talk can be cranked down a couple notches.

MLB Teams will do what it takes to win.. and that includes keeping players and supporting players that haven't always played within the rules.

Can't wait to read Miklasz article on this signing.. support or faux anger?


I think when there's enough will and aggression, there's no shortage of talent either.

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Offline wpr  
#4 Posted : Monday, November 25, 2013 11:01:14 AM(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: Pack93z Go to Quoted Post
Could have sworn that I heard Cards players and fans alike berate Braun over and over.. and over again. I wonder if they will "Boo" Johnny? Litter him with insult upon insult...



Hmmmmm...



I agree... it is time to move on for the most part. I think Braun deserves any critical statements about lying and especially for throwing others under the bus. Just noting that now that the Cards have a proven PED user on the roster, all the Cardinals only win the right way talk can be cranked down a couple notches.

MLB Teams will do what it takes to win.. and that includes keeping players and supporting players that haven't always played within the rules.

Can't wait to read Miklasz article on this signing.. support or faux anger?





I heard nothing from the StL organization on Braun one way or another. Someone may have said something. I don't read every thing that comes out.

All I have heard from fans was to stand up and face it. (So to speak.) There has been no opportunity after his suspension to ridicule him as he has not been available. I do agree having Jhonny on the team will eliminate the chance of Redbird fans from blasting Ryan. Or at least it should. I never planned to be a part of that group. Too much like Philly fans to suit me.

Thanks to the Jhonny denial. I do not recall hearing that last year. You powers of recall are outstanding.

Peralta is not the first PED player that StL has brought on board. Bernie had a nice article talking about Jhonny Peralta.

Quote:
Mozeliak and the Cardinals should expect some ridicule for signing Peralta. The move comes in the immediate aftermath of considerable “Cardinal Way” evangelizing throughout the 2013 season. Does the “Cardinal Way” accommodate drug cheats? That's the snarky way of asking the question. It's also a fair question to ask _ even if it does miss the point.

The so-called Cardinal Way is and never was a statement on morality. It's about an approach to baseball, and a philosophy that's instilled from the top to the bottom of the organization. How to play the game, how to be a good teammate, how to foster a winning environment, etc.

Never mind the minor details; the “Cardinal Way” understandably makes for an easy target. And the Cardinals presumably knew that before giving a huge deal to Peralta, who served that 50-game suspension in '13.

Truth is the Cardinals have never viewed PED suspicions or the taint of PEDs as a deal killer or the basis for terminating a working relationship. Some of the PED-connected names include Mark McGwire, Troy Glaus, Fernando Vina, Ryan Franklin, Larry Bigbie, Gary Bennett. And those are just the guys we know about through the “official” Mitchell Report and media reports. The Cardinals' retired and venerated manager, Tony La Russa, has been called out repeatedly for the steroids proliferation in the Oakland clubhouse during his seasons there.


Personally I have been upset with all PED players. I don't want any of them in The Hall. But it has been pointed out many times there are players who have juiced and not been caught. It is hard to know who did what for how long and did it help or not? Just because you are bigger and stronger doesn't mean it is a benefit. I think we will always have some kind of PED. It is a shame.





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Offline Pack93z  
#5 Posted : Monday, November 25, 2013 11:25:40 AM(UTC)
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The Johnny denial... I used that one before.. that is how i remember it.

I was wound up last year at Miller Park having to listen to the Cardinal fans, some buddies even, talk about the Cardinal Way.. how Albert was proven clean.. how the Brewers should be ashamed that they believed and played Braun.. etc.. etc... etc.

Struck me funny how they inked Johnny this season.. to 53 million to boot.

Agreed.. you can't tell where the line is.. between whom is and whom isn't.. between how much it helps.. etc.. etc.. etc.

I think when there's enough will and aggression, there's no shortage of talent either.

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Offline Zero2Cool  
#6 Posted : Monday, November 25, 2013 11:45:13 AM(UTC)
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Cardinals are just as despicable as any other MLB team. Like that saying goes, if ya ain't cheatin ya ain't trying.
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Offline wpr  
#7 Posted : Monday, November 25, 2013 12:32:08 PM(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: Pack93z Go to Quoted Post

I was wound up last year at Miller Park having to listen to the Cardinal fans, some buddies even, talk about the Cardinal Way.. how Albert was proven clean.. how the Brewers should be ashamed that they believed and played Braun.. etc.. etc... etc.




Fans from every professional team can be jerks. The few don't always reflect the organization nor the majority of fans.

As Bernie said "The so-called Cardinal Way is and never was a statement on morality. It's about an approach to baseball, and a philosophy that's instilled from the top to the bottom of the organization. How to play the game, how to be a good teammate, how to foster a winning environment, etc. "

Certainly not everyone embraces this concept. More times than not they are traded when they don't. Even when they are quality players. Colby Rasmus was one of the more recent players. They didn't get much for him but the players helped win the WS. A few years before that Scott Rolen was getting a little bucky and wouldn't listen so he found himself playing elsewhere too.

It is kind of like when people say someone is "Packer People". It is just a saying. No one is perfect. Everyone has issues. To assume that an entire organization of people are faultless is silly.

I was reading a SI story earlier this year. They talked about
"The Cardinal Way". They went on to say the Rookie level players along with the A, AA and AA players are all taught the same things. Pitchers don't change their mechanics 3 or 4 times before they get to the majors. Fielders have to hit the correct cutoff man. Batters all are expected to do the right thing in the game game situations. IE: hit to the right side when it is warranted. Try and get the sac fly if that is what is called for. Take pitches. Be a smart base runner. They don't reinvent the game with every manager or coach. What is wrong with that? Why doesn't every team do that? Many organizations say they do but watching players you see they don't.

They even hand the players a binder with things they expect from the players. But then Greg Jennings would probably say they are being brainwashed.
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Offline IronMan  
#8 Posted : Monday, November 25, 2013 2:05:08 PM(UTC)
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Gotta love MLB. Get busted for PEDs? Not a problem, here's $50 million.

Yeah, lets reward the cheaters. No integrity.
Offline wpr  
#9 Posted : Monday, November 25, 2013 2:32:04 PM(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: IronMan Go to Quoted Post
Gotta love MLB. Get busted for PEDs? Not a problem, here's $50 million.

Yeah, lets reward the cheaters. No integrity.


I am all in favor of banning all cheaters for life. That goes for kicking spitball pitchers like Gaylord Perry out of the Hall of Fame. Besides his PED use, Sammy Sosa got caught with a corked bat. He should never be allowed to join the others. In the 70's and 80's cocaine was in vogue. Those players should not be in there. In the earlier days there was a lot of cheating going on. Besides being a royal SOB Ty Cobb cheated every chance he got. Throw the bastard out.

In the NFL Chester Marco admits to being high all the time. He should be removed from the Packers Hall.

Take down a few plaques and let the bare walls show.
"You don't hurt 'em if you don't hit 'em." Chesty Puller



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Offline DakotaT  
#10 Posted : Monday, November 25, 2013 7:58:23 PM(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: IronMan Go to Quoted Post
Gotta love MLB. Get busted for PEDs? Not a problem, here's $50 million.

Yeah, lets reward the cheaters. No integrity.


Kind of like our last Republican nominee - cheat on your taxes for years and you get to run for the Presidency of the United States of America. No integrity.
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