Zero2Cool
10 years ago
You can click Source for more on this subject.


With Captain Comeback, we like to look at the close finishes the NFL provides every week, and also do a good share of proving when the facts are being distorted by battles over semantics.

The much-publicized ending in the Green Bay at Seattle game from Monday Night Football is a classic example of both. It was one of the most exciting finishes ever, and the ending has been spoiled by controversy from the moment it happened as people fight over what the words “control”, “possession”, and “catch” mean in NFL terms.

The ending has hit mainstream news outside of the realm of sports, and many sources – most of which are not even qualified to make the statement – refer to it as the “worst call in NFL history.” That might be true if your knowledge of NFL history starts in 2012.

Enough already. The biggest travesty in the NFL this week comes from all the fans and media that have let a perfect storm of events shape the biggest overreaction ever to a call that was right, and a touchdown that was legitimate.

When you take your emotions out of it, and only study the facts, then there is no denying the replacement referees got the ending right, and the NFL’s statement was correct in upholding the call.



Analyzing the Touchdown

Want the short or long version? You know you are getting the long anyway, but if you need a summary, then here it goes.

The short version: Golden Tate had the first control of the ball, catching it with his left hand, which never loses control of the ball throughout the entire process of the play. His two feet hit the ground to establish possession before M.D. Jennings establishes possession. Tate’s butt hits the ground, and at this point, he still has control, possession and is in the end zone for a good touchdown. Tate pushed off for an uncalled offensive pass interference that would have ended the game, but this is irrelevant when history shows no referee in football will make such a call on a Hail Mary. Seattle’s win is legit.

The long version will now go through the whole catch, and the key is to look at a frame-by-frame analysis.

While slow-motion replays are sexier for TV, you have to take a frame-by-frame approach to get evidence of what really happens. No matter how many replays you watch from whatever angles you find, it is the exact frames at the key moments that will tell you what really happened, and why this is a touchdown.

First, everyone can agree that this was a pass in the end zone, with both players always inbounds, and the ball never hits the ground. That means it has to be either ruled a touchdown or an interception. That is not up for debate by anyone.

Next, we need to define control, possession and a catch, as these have been mixed up quite a bit this week. Possession only occurs when a catch is completed, and having control is a key element of making a catch.

The following is from the NFL’s statement on what defines a catch as stated in Rule 8, Section 1.

“A forward pass is complete (by the offense) or intercepted (by the defense) if a player, who is inbounds:

(a) secures control of the ball in his hands or arms prior to the ball touching the ground; and

(b) touches the ground inbounds with both feet or with any part of his body other than his hands; and

(c) maintains control of the ball long enough, after (a) and (b) have been fulfilled, to enable him to perform any act common to the game (i.e., maintaining control long enough to pitch it, pass it, advance with it, or avoid or ward off an opponent, etc.).”

If the player is going to the ground like they were in this play, then control must be maintained throughout the process for the catch to count. That did happen, and all the wrestling for the ball that took place was irrelevant as the touchdown was already good.

The following is the NFL’s rule for a simultaneous catch, as there apparently is no rule for simultaneous possession, which many have tried to talk about for this play.

Rule 8, Section 1, Article 3, Item 5 states:

“Simultaneous Catch. If a pass is caught simultaneously by two eligible opponents, and both players retain it, the ball belongs to the passers. It is not a simultaneous catch if a player gains control first and an opponent subsequently gains joint control. If the ball is muffed after simultaneous touching by two such players, all the players of the passing team become eligible to catch the loose ball.”

Technically, there probably never is a true simultaneous catch in the NFL, as someone will always touch the ball first (size of ball and hands dictate as much), as Tate did here. Hell, this call was probably still way closer than Bret Hart and Lex Luger simultaneously going over the top rope in the 1994 Royal Rumble. Now if you want to talk about a rip-off that you had to pay for…

Source  wrote:


UserPostedImage
OlHoss1884
10 years ago
Except thatit was clear on the replay (and to the official closer to the play who initially made the call) that it was not simultaneous possession and that Jennings was on the ground in the end zone with possession before Tate wrestled his hands around it. The initial call on the field was interception and touchback, which was overruled on the field by an official who was farther away with a poorer angle on the play. The replay made it clear that the initial call was correct...it was NOT all that close. Let's not forget the clearly blown offensive pass interference non-call as well. THAT was so bad the league even admitted it.

Like with the Majkowski call in 1989 I think it ultimately had more to do with an amazing play at the nd of the game where they looked for an excuse to grant a break to the home team. I do not think, in the end, it made a ton of difference because I don't think anyone was going to keep SF from winning the NFC, whether the gamewas played there or in GB, but it will still go downas one of the more egregious officiating blunders of all time.
"The difference between genius and stupidity is that genius has its limits" --Albert Einstein
Dexter_Sinister
10 years ago
Except the Ref said he blew the call.

The call was so bad, 138 people lost their jobs.
I want to go out like my Grandpa did. Peacefully in his sleep.
Not screaming in terror like his passengers.
Zero2Cool
10 years ago

Except the Ref said he blew the call.

The call was so bad, 138 people lost their jobs.

Originally Posted by: Dexter_Sinister 



Lance Easley has stood by the call, as quoted here - link .

And 138 lost their job, but 138 got their job back.

Edit, "Replacement referee Wayne Elliott, who initially defended the call of a touchdown by Seahawks receiver Golden Tate, reluctantly admitted during an interview with Cris Collinsworth and James Brown on this week’s Inside the NFL that the call “probably” should have been an interception."
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PackerTraxx
10 years ago
Plain and simple...BS.
Why is Jerry Kramer not in the Hall of Fame?
buckeyepackfan
10 years ago

Plain and simple...BS.

Originally Posted by: PackerTraxx 



=d> =d> =d> =d> =d>

Just one of many bad calls in that game, and across the league.

That call finally made The NFL realize they better get real refs back or The game itself was going to start suffering.

The replacement refs are the reason I never refer back to the 1st 3 games of the 2012 season to make any kind of comparisons.


IT WAS NOT REAL FOOTBALL!!!!

Most didn't have a clue on the rules and none could keep up with the fast pace of the game.

All that being said, The Packers had their chances to still be at home for the playoffs, the cards just didn't fall their way at the end of the year.
I was addicted to The Hokey Pokey, but I turned myself around!
DarkaneRules
10 years ago
The moral of this story is to leave nothing to chance.
Circular Arguments: They are a heck of an annoyance
wpr
  • wpr
  • Preferred Member
10 years ago
Scott Kacsmar can try and piss on my leg but no matter what he says he won't convince me that it is raining.

The call was wrong. It has been affirmed and reaffirmed many times.

His long winded analogy does not show his brilliance only his ignorance and i am ok with that.
UserPostedImage
wpr
  • wpr
  • Preferred Member
10 years ago
Out of curiosity I did a quick check of Scott Kacsmar. he is from Pittsburgh . I am sure he was not the least bit upset that GB beat the Steelers in the SB. I am sure he holds no ill will toward the Packers.
UserPostedImage
steveishere
10 years ago
Fan Shout
Zero2Cool (3h) : Chase Young to sign $13M contract with Saints
Zero2Cool (3h) : Yosh to Panthers what noooo. Wait he didn't do crap
wpr (18-Mar) : I say that he is technically HER BIL as he married her sister. I checked it out, he's considered my BIL as well. Sad.
Mucky Tundra (18-Mar) : wpr, I assume its your BIL via marriage to your wife? If so, I can figure out where the smarts in the family went ;)
wpr (18-Mar) : Mucky my B-I-L is Bare Stupid. I could write a book.
Mucky Tundra (18-Mar) : As a teenager in Rockford IL I would get heckled by adults in public for wearing GB gear
Mucky Tundra (18-Mar) : if you think the online ones are bad, try *living amongst* them
Mucky Tundra (18-Mar) : Never doubt wprs loyalty. Poor guy is surrounded by Bears fans in Northern IL
wpr (17-Mar) : pass Martha. Thanks for the invite though.
Martha Careful (17-Mar) : blog * as the same ugly Illinois colors were adopted by the Baer
Martha Careful (17-Mar) : WPR, perhaps you should be joining the Bears fans blog has the same ugly Illinois colors were adopted by the Bears
Mucky Tundra (17-Mar) : Ah a fellow U of Illinois hater. I can respect that though I imagine it's for different reasons
Zero2Cool (17-Mar) : BTW. I didn't catch the game. I just hate Illinois.
Mucky Tundra (17-Mar) : They're your Big Ten Chumps and you will like it!
Zero2Cool (17-Mar) : No, not for the record. Referee's handled that BS. Orange team was trash ass
Mucky Tundra (17-Mar) : *Your* Big Ten Chumps for the record
Zero2Cool (17-Mar) : No, not Big Ten Champs. IL is big ten CHUMPS
wpr (17-Mar) : Big Ten Champs
wpr (17-Mar) : !!!
wpr (17-Mar) : INI
wpr (17-Mar) : ILL
Martha Careful (17-Mar) : Wisconsin with an outstanding on in the men’s Big Ten basketball tournament. Let’s hope it continues in the NCAAs
Zero2Cool (17-Mar) : Almost like taking QB in 2020 even if you don't need one is good move.
Mucky Tundra (16-Mar) : 2021 QB Draft class looking like a real clunker
Mucky Tundra (16-Mar) : A conditional 6th rounder? I remember Bears fans arguing they'd get a day 2 pick at worst lol
dfosterf (16-Mar) : So I got the no extension part right and the have to wait on the CW physical wrong
Zero2Cool (16-Mar) : Bears are trading Justin Fields for a 2025 6th-round pick that goes to a 4th-round pick based on playtime, per sources.
Zero2Cool (16-Mar) : Former Packer Jarrett Bush opens Wisconsin’s first blow dry bar in Green Bay
dfosterf (16-Mar) : If the Bears are not doing a deal with Washington, they also cannot trade Fields until Williams physical with them. All hail Caleb Williams!
dfosterf (16-Mar) : The talent is undeniable, but the (advertised) haul is obscene.
dfosterf (16-Mar) : If the Bears are cutting a deal with the Commanders, in either scenario, cannot happen until williams passes a Commanders physical
dfosterf (16-Mar) : My guess is no to the Fields extension, but yes to the trade back with the Commanders.
dhazer (15-Mar) : I think the Bears do a Love extension and they will trade out of the 1st pick and take the haul
Martha Careful (15-Mar) : that might make sense
Zero2Cool (15-Mar) : Justin Fields to Steelers?
Zero2Cool (15-Mar) : Kenny Pickett. Eagles. Done.
Zero2Cool (15-Mar) : They can claim best two WR tandem.
Mucky Tundra (15-Mar) : Aaron Donald retiring
dhazer (15-Mar) : Campbell signing with 49ers
dhazer (15-Mar) : I love how the Bear Fans are now claiming they have the best skill players in the NFC North lol
Zero2Cool (15-Mar) : Vikings made a move to get a 2nd first round pick
Mucky Tundra (15-Mar) : That's a not a bad deal for the Bears
Zero2Cool (15-Mar) : Bears have traded for WR Keenan Allen sending Chargers a fourth rounder.
Martha Careful (15-Mar) : *signs
Martha Careful (14-Mar) : MLB Devon White science with the Eagles
Mucky Tundra (14-Mar) : But that was before FA started
Mucky Tundra (14-Mar) : Dhaze, I thought Kurls would be their #1 target when I read that he was an Amos comp (jack of all trades guy)
dhazer (14-Mar) : I would like to see the Packers target 2 more FA still available Kamren Curl Safety and Chase Young edge
Martha Careful (14-Mar) : wow...didn't see that coming
Zero2Cool (14-Mar) : AJ Dillon re-signing with Packers.
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