I think Beast is right about Graham's limited mental receiving abilities, which would reduce his ability to be productive in our O. And his egocentric attitude will never help a lockerroom, though it might harm one.

i like richard rodgers but if anybody wants to compare him to jimmy graham at this point of his young career is nuts !!

not even in the same league yet !!

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But the Ferrari creates opportunities for his teammates by drawing more attention from the defense. Our offense has not been the same since Finley went down. Even some of you stat boys can figure that out, can't you?

BTW, did you really think we didn't know which player was the truck?

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And never will be. Elite athleticism is a gift from God, it can't be learned. That is what Uffda keeps trying to get across to some of these fellas, but there is no penetrating iron heads.

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and there was no pent rating his iron head that he wasn't always right... you'd prove a statement of his wrong and he'd change the debate claiming he never said what he said. ..

And he's not here so can we please stop bringing him up?

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And that's a bad thing? Packers have done much better without Finley....

2007: NFC Championship
2008: Draft Finley
2010: Finley goes to the IR, disappears and they win the Super Bowl
2013: Finley's last year
2014: NFC Championship

I know it's not all about Finley, but I think one has to admit it seems strange, that the team had it's best success over the last 8 years, in the 3 years that Finley has seen the least amount of games.

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That athleticism is what makes Janis such a valuable member of the receiving corps. Any day now, he'll actually make a catch in a game!

Graham is overrated and overpaid because he put up high fantasy stats getting 140 targets a year from Drew Brees. For all that athleticism he hasn't really ever been a huge run after catch guy, that's because he runs crappy routes and doesn't get much separation. Athleticism does not equal talent.

Graham is overrated, yes.
Graham is better than R. Rodgers, we can't lie.
Graham would make our offense a lot better because our biggest problem is near the red zone and Graham is a specialist in that area. He can certainly catch touchdowns.

Having said that would I trade Graham for Rogers today? Difficult question and I think I would say no.

Seattle has no idea how to use Graham and Russell Wilson has zero chemistry with him, furthermore they do have some other good TEs so the trade made no sense it was a huge mistake.

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Sure at first glance this might seem the case; but the Queen of the Imperial Court looks hot, ‘til you delve a litter deeper and find it’s a guy in drag...This is a mind opening exercise and something to keep in mind when opining on any player’s value.

Baseball players are principally paid and evaluated by WAR; and so are most football players though no such official stats exists; but every now and then a GM goofs.

Z2C is wrong: Graham is only the chassis of a Ferrari, look under the hood🤣. The question of how good a player is based on one thing: how many can do what he does. If Graham gets 2000 yards on 150 targets from Brees, but everyone else gets 2001 or more; then he’s actually the worst there is; if everyone else gets 300 yards or less, then he’s a superstar. This is the foundation of WAR. Think about this: if Abby, Janis, Pinkard, etc could all do what Cobb did, Cobb would not even have been offered a min. contract.

W/ a broken down Shockey the 2 years before Graham became a supposed stud, NO’s offense was [very slightly] statistically better than they were the last 4 years w/ Graham. Using WAR, this indicates Graham is no better than a broken down Shockey and R.Rodgers is better than a broken down Shockey. [ya, that’s a slippery slope😝; but not all logically invalid arguments are wrong]

This seems outrageous to you because you are allowing one tiny stat to bias/corrupt 100% of your thinking. CM3 may end up with 15 sacks-Who cares?! That’s 15 good plays out of 1000. I and GB will be judging Clay on how he did on 1000 plays, not 15. In 2014, Graham had 124 Targets, 86 catches for 889 yards in 775 snaps. How many catches and yards would Rodgers get w/ 124 Brees targets? I’ll bet its close. Your opinion of Graham was clearly 100% formed by his play during those 86 catches. But on 2 of those 86 he fumbled and LOST the ball. For 38 other plays the ball was thrown to him and he didn’t catch it, so that’s 38 more failures that need to be balanced against the 84 positive plays. An what did he do the other 651 snaps? Did he block? Did he run his routes w/ the same gusto knowing he wasn’t getting the ball? Did he have zero, 100, 200 or 650 more bad plays to weigh against those 84 successful ones? Saints ran 1100 plays, what was he doing the other 325 snaps when he wasn’t on the field: did he call over young TE Hill and counsel him and explain defenses and reads? He had 2 penalties that didn’t count in the 775; that’s 2 more bad plays to balance against the 84 good ones.

Here’s something else: the games last 3 hrs x 16 weeks or 48 hours. But, throughout the year maybe 1200 hours are spent preparing for those 48 hours. Of those other 1152 hours, is he doing things to make the team better, the same or worse? Is he doing things to make other players better the same or worse?

Now we don’t have solid info on 99% of this. Heck, even good catches might have been bad plays if the wrong route was run sabotaging a better play that otherwise would have occurred. We don’t know nor will we know anything concrete, for example, about Sean Richardson’s neck injury. But if GB releases him with an injury settlement, we should kinda assume the neck injury is really bad. New Orleans was due to pay Graham 8M this year and took a 9M cap hit to trade him; that should give you an idea of what the Saints thought about Graham: this indicates they don’t think he’s all that special, that his WAR is not that high, that on 124 Brees targets most can get 86 catches and 889 yards. It also provides insight into how the Saints feel of Graham’s other 1152 hours and his performance during the 1016 snaps that were not catches.