wpr
  • wpr
  • Preferred Member Topic Starter
a month ago
Eligible for the Hall of Fame.

There is so much gambling money in baseball. It's time to let the boys come home.

ESPN 

In a historic, sweeping decision, baseball commissioner Rob Manfred on Tuesday removed Pete Rose, "Shoeless" Joe Jackson and other deceased players from Major League Baseball's permanently ineligible list.

The all-time hit king and Jackson -- both longtime baseball pariahs stained by gambling, seen by MLB as the game's mortal sin -- are now presumably eligible for election into the Baseball Hall of Fame in Cooperstown, New York.

Manfred ruled that MLB's punishment of banned individuals ends upon their deaths.

"Obviously, a person no longer with us cannot represent a threat to the integrity of the game," Manfred wrote in a letter to attorney Jeffrey M. Lenkov, who petitioned for Rose's removal from the list Jan. 8. "Moreover, it is hard to conceive of a penalty that has more deterrent effect than one that lasts a lifetime with no reprieve.

"Therefore, I have concluded that permanent ineligibility ends upon the passing of the disciplined individual, and Mr. Rose will be removed from the permanently ineligible list."

Manfred's decision ends the ban that Rose accepted from then-Commissioner A. Bartlett Giamatti in August 1989, following an MLB investigation that determined the 17-time All-Star had bet on games while managing the Cincinnati Reds.

Jackson and seven other Chicago White Sox were banned from playing professional baseball in 1921 by MLB's first commissioner, Kenesaw Mountain Landis, for fixing the 1919 World Series.

Based on current rules for players who last played more than 15 years ago, it appears the earliest Rose and Jackson could be enshrined is summer 2028 if they are elected.

Manfred's ruling removes a total of 16 deceased players and one deceased owner from MLB's banned list, a group that includes Jackson's teammates, ace pitcher Eddie Cicotte and third baseman George "Buck" Weaver. The so-called "Black Sox Scandal" is one of the darkest chapters in baseball history, the subject of books and the 1988 film, "Eight Men Out."

In 1991, shortly before Rose's first year of Hall of Fame eligibility, the Hall's board decided any player on MLB's permanently ineligible list would also be ineligible for election. It became known as "the Pete Rose rule."

Rose believed his banishment would be lifted after a year or two, but it became a lifetime sentence. For "Shoeless" Joe Jackson, who died in 1951, the ban became an eternal sentence, until Tuesday.

Jackson was considered for decades by voters, but Pete Rose's name has never appeared on a Hall of Fame ballot. He died in September at age 83.

Nearly a decade ago, Lenkov began a campaign to get Rose reinstated. On Dec. 17, Pete Rose's eldest daughter, Fawn, and Lenkov appealed to Manfred and MLB chief communications officer Pat Courtney during an hourlong meeting at MLB's midtown Manhattan headquarters.

"This has been a long journey," Lenkov said. "On behalf of the family, they are very proud and pleased and know that their father would have been overjoyed at this decision today."

Jane Forbes Clark, chairman of the board of the Hall of Fame, said Manfred's decision will allow Rose, Jackson and others to be considered by the Historical Overview Committee, which will "develop the ballot of eight names for the Classic Baseball Era Committee ... to vote on when it meets next in December 2027."

Lenkov said he and Rose's family intend to petition the Hall of Fame for induction as soon as possible.

"My next step is to respectfully confer with the Hall and discuss ... Pete's induction into the Hall of Fame," Lenkov said. The attorney said he and Rose's family will attend Pete Rose Night on Wednesday at Cincinnati's Great American Ball Park.

"Reds Nation will not only be able to celebrate Pete's legacy, but now optimistically be able to look forward to the possibility that Pete will join other baseball immortals," Lenkov said. "Pete Rose would have for sure been overjoyed at the outpouring of support from all."

Rose and Jackson's candidacies presumably will be decided by the Hall's 16-member Classic Baseball Era Committee, which considers players whose careers ended more than 15 years ago. The committee isn't scheduled to meet again until December 2027. Rose and Jackson would need 12 of 16 votes to win induction.

Jackson had a career batting average of .356, the fourth highest in MLB history. After his death, Jackson's fans, including state legislators in South Carolina, launched numerous public and petition-writing campaigns arguing that Jackson deserved a plaque in the Hall of Fame. Despite accepting $5,000 in gamblers' cash to throw the 1919 World Series, Jackson batted .375, didn't make an error and hit the series' only home run.

Across the decades and among millions of baseball fans, especially in Cincinnati where Rose was born and played most of his career, the clamor over the pugnacious, stubborn legend's banishment from baseball and the Hall became louder, angrier and increasingly impatient.

Few players in baseball history had more remarkable careers than Pete Rose. He was an exuberant competitor who played the game with sharp-elbowed abandon and relentless hustle. Rose, whose lifetime batting average was .303, is Major League Baseball's career leader in hits (4,256), games played (3,562), at-bats (14,053), singles (3,215) and outs (10,328). He won the World Series three times -- twice with the Reds and once with the Philadelphia Phillies.

Rose often said -- and stat experts agree -- that he won more regular-season games (1,972) than any major league baseball player or professional athlete in history. He also won three batting titles, two Gold Glove Awards, the Most Valuable Player Award and the Rookie of the Year Award.

In 2015, shortly after Manfred succeeded Bud Selig as commissioner, Rose applied for reinstatement with MLB. Manfred met with Rose, who first told the commissioner he had stopped gambling but then admitted he still wagered legally on sports, including baseball, in his adopted hometown of Las Vegas.

Manfred rejected Rose's bid for reinstatement after concluding he had failed to "reconfigure his life," a requirement for reinstatement set by Giamatti. Allowing Rose back into baseball was an "unacceptable risk of a future violation ... and thus to the integrity of our sport," Manfred declared on Dec. 14, 2015.

Rose often complained that the ban prevented him from working with young hitters in minor league ballparks. On Feb. 5, 2020, Rose's representatives filed another reinstatement petition, arguing that the commissioner's decision to level no punishment against the World Series champion Houston Astros players for electronic sign stealing was unfair to Rose. "There cannot be one set of rules for Mr. Rose," the 20-page petition argued, "and another for everyone else."

But Manfred, who did not meet again with Rose, chose not to rule on that second appeal prior to Rose's death on Sept. 30, 2024.



There's more to the story if you want to read it.

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Zero2Cool
a month ago
Field of Dreams probably tainted my view, but Jackson should have been in after a waiting period. Not post death.

What I know of Pete Rose, he violated gambling rules, but it seemed like he broke the spirit of the rule, not the intent of the rule.

I don't think either shaved points or anything, but I guess if you let one crack in the armor, people will speculate.
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bboystyle
a month ago
Now let Bonds and Mcgwire in. They both are HoF even after the steroid
wpr
  • wpr
  • Preferred Member Topic Starter
a month ago

Now let Bonds and Mcgwire in. They both are HoF even after the steroid

Originally Posted by: bboystyle 


Clemens too.
The trend would be after they are dead.
UserPostedImage
a month ago

Now let Bonds and Mcgwire in. They both are HoF even after the steroid

Originally Posted by: bboystyle 

Bonds Yes...spectacular even before steroid use. McGwire and Sosa, no.

Further, I know there's a ton of nostalgia and goodwill for Pete Rose, but I am not amongst the people who thinks he should be in the Hall of Fame . To the contrary he should not.

Rose violated both in spirit and by the letter the rules against gambling.

Some might say, “well he only gambled on his team to win.” That in and of itself destroys the integrity of the game. An example might be, let's say he had bet on a game and one of his starters got off to a rocky start. In a normal situation you would let the guy work it out over an extra inning or two more than if you just yank him at early trouble. However with money on the game, Rose would either go to another starter or his bullpen much more quickly. Further, if Rose knew he was going to bet on a game, let's say Game 2 during a series, he might not use his better relievers on game one and save them for when he was going to bet on the game, hosing the people who may have bet on that first game.

Regardless his actions impugned the integrity of the game and he should not be in the Hall of Fame.

Dead flies putrefy the perfumer’s ointment, And cause it to give off a foul odor;
So does a little folly to one respected for wisdom and honor.




Go Packers!!!!
dfosterf
a month ago
They are cutting a pass to the Menendez brothers for blowing away their parents, so why not?
a month ago

They are cutting a pass to the Menendez brothers for blowing away their parents, so why not?

Originally Posted by: dfosterf 

O tempora, o mores

Go Packers!!!!
Zero2Cool
a month ago

Rose violated both in spirit and by the letter the rules against gambling.

Some might say, “well he only gambled on his team to win.” That in and of itself destroys the integrity of the game. An example might be, let's say he had bet on a game and one of his starters got off to a rocky start. In a normal situation you would let the guy work it out over an extra inning or two more than if you just yank him at early trouble. However with money on the game, Rose would either go to another starter or his bullpen much more quickly.

Further, if Rose knew he was going to bet on a game, let's say Game 2 during a series, he might not use his better relievers on game one and save them for when he was going to bet on the game, hosing the people who may have bet on that first game.

Originally Posted by: Martha Careful 



The first scenario I do not think is something at all. You play the game to win, regardless of what lights a fire under your ass. However, the second point is basically "insider trading" in my eyes and wrong.
UserPostedImage
a month ago

The first scenario I do not think is something at all. You play the game to win, regardless of what lights a fire under your ass. However, the second point is basically "insider trading" in my eyes and wrong.

Originally Posted by: Zero2Cool 

In both cases, the integrity of the game is impugned. When the way you manage a game changes because you have money on it, that's bad.

He does not deserve to be in.

Go Packers!!!!
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