Zero2Cool
5 years ago
Boohoo.

Despite less success than their counterparts in Green Bay, Payton and Brees escape the exact criticism leveled against the Packers even as the same excuses apply for each. Mike McCarthy could never have managed it. Slogging through seven-win seasons three straight years and four out of five, New Orleans Saints head coach Sean Payton somehow stayed beyond reproach. Micky Loomis can’t manage the cap. The defense can’t get it together. Even as rivals gain steam and make trips to the Super Bowl , neither Payton nor Brees took any heat from the local or national media, the fanbase, or the NFL audience at large.

This never would have happened in Green Bay and the reason is simple: expectations. Saints  fans are used to losing. Payton, along with Brees, revived a dormant franchise, and did it on the backs of the greatest tragedy in New Orleans in a century. They would always be met with a hero’s welcome.

Mike McCarthy meanwhile, rebuilt a Hall of Fame quarterback’s career, lifted another into dominance, and returned the Lombardi Trophy to Titletown. The difference is that’s a baseline expectation in Green Bay. Cheesehead Nation looks at the Patriots  and wonders “Why isn’t that us? We have the best quarterback in the game, maybe the best ever. Why don’t we go to the Super Bowl every year?”

Those expectations ultimately ended McCarthy’s tenure in Green Bay, one that came with far less failure and significantly less shame than Payton’s. This was only the second losing season in McCarthy’s tenure when Aaron Rodgers  started more than half of the season’s games. The Saints have four since winning the Super Bowl a year before Green Bay.

McCarthy never lost a season of coaching for failing to control his coaches and players amid a bounty scandal, targeting opposing players with payment for violent plays. On the other hand, he presided over more winning seasons, more division titles, playoff appearances, conference championship games and No. 1 offenses by DVOA than Payton.

Yet one is employed, and the other isn’t.
The reasons for that are myriad, not simply tied to one’s record vs. the other. McCarthy’s record, for example, compares favorably with coaches considered among the best in the game, guys like Payton and Andy Reid.

McCarthy failed to address the failings of his defensive coaching staff, though Payton did the same. Reid once named an offensive line coach to be his defensive coordinator and it failed as spectacularly as one might expect.
It’s true McCarthy failed to adapt and evolve his offensive system the way those coaches did, but until the last two years, it didn’t really matter. The last full season Rodgers  played healthy, the Packers  went to the NFC Championship  Game, where they succumbed to injuries and a talent deficiencies.

Nearly every excuse that can be made for Payton can be made for McCarthy except for one fundamental difference: expectation. McCarthy lost the locker room and his quarterback, but an essential reason for that loss stems from the notion the Packers consistently underachieved relative to the talent of Rodgers. There’s something telling in that about the difference in perspective of Rodgers vs. Brees.

Rodgers’ abilities are so virtuoso, so sui generis that he’s expected to lift his team in ways Brees isn’t. And any coach who can’t get him there is a failure, nevermind the reasonable criticisms about Ted Thompson’s unwillingness to sign free agents or his recent failures in the draft.

In fact, the Saints, who were patient with Payton, only saw their patience pay off because the team made a historic draft run to revitalize the program. If Green Bay watched Damarious Randall  turn into Marshon Lattimore  and Ty Montgomery  into Alvin Kamara , McCarthy would almost certainly still be employed.

But that reason that didn’t happen is because of expectations. It’s different in Green Bay, where anything short of a Super Bowl is considered a failure by the fans and the media. The Packers are a national brand, a public team, helmed by the most skilled quarterback to ever lace up cleats. Why aren’t they playing for titles every year like the GOAT Tom Brady  (such as one believes in such claims)?

No one compares the Saints to the Patriots, or Brees’ failings in to the playoffs’ to Rodgers. Two heart-breaking losses in a row? How quaint. Rodgers has four playoff losses on the final play of the game (three in overtime) and has a defense that can barely step onto the field without allowing 30 points in January.
Much like McCarthy and Payton, the failings of Brees never seem to tarnish his legacy the same way some love to skewer Rodgers. Brees is a humble leader, nevermind if he pushes fake supplements in a pyramid scheme . Did you see how cute his baby was at the Super Bowl with the head phones? Daaaw.

Rodgers is a selfish diva, deserving of the scorn. Or at least such is the narrative. This too is the burden of expectation. No one accuses the Saints or Payton of wasting Brees’ prime, and few people point out the streak of losing seasons they put together, or the interceptions, or the playoff losses.

Imagine how different the Brees legacy might have been had Brett Favre  not thrown that unthinkable interception for the Vikings . No Super Bowl for the Saints, and one of the greatest statistical quarterbacks ever would be mentioned along with Dan Marino as great quarterbacks who never managed to win a title.

But they did win, in a city starving for a victory. He would never have to win another game and he’d go down as a Bayou hero. Brees doesn’t bear the weight of expectation in the same way.

It’s not that another playoff defeat should have cost Payton his job, or that McCarthy deserved to keep his. Clearly the rubicon had been crossed with McCarthy. It was time to move on. Payton, on the other hand, remains one of the top offensive minds in the league, something that cannot be said for McCarthy despite the proven success.

But it’s fair to wonder if the positions had been flipped — if McCarthy comes to New Orleans and Payton to the Packers in 2006 — would the legacies have played out differently? If McCarthy leads the Saints with Brees to a Super Bowl, is he still the toast of Bourbon Street? If he gets that title and never evolves, never grows, never changes, does anyone care locally or nationally?

They never had a defense. The front office screwed them over. The division got better around them. The referees botched a huge call in a playoff game. An unthinkable miracle play cost them a chance at a Super Bowl. Which team am I talking about?

Though it’s fair to point to lack of talent, a myopathy of vision, and a complacent mindset, it’s likely none of those things would have gotten McCarthy fired in New Orleans. The attitude in Green Bay is different, and perhaps rightfully so. Payton failed more and it’s cost him less because the stakes aren’t the same.
But perception is reality in pro sports. This is a culture Matt LaFleur enters, hopefully with eyes wide open about what it means. If fans and media perceive the Packers to be “wasting” Aaron Rodgers, the double-standard for Brees and Payton is irrelevant to Green Bay. Pointing out this hypocrisy doesn’t win games. There simply is more pressure. The why’s and how’s of it are irrelevant.

At this point, it doesn’t matter. Yes, the Packers do have more pressure and the Saints have been let off easier when it comes to criticism. Yes, Rodgers is better than Brees and should be held to a higher standard. And the only way to “fix” it is simple: start winning again.




Continue Reading @ Peter_Bukowski 

Peter_Bukowski wrote:


UserPostedImage
KRK
  • KRK
  • Veteran Member
5 years ago
Z2C, totally agree. No critical analysis in the article regarding:[list][*]Allowing the scheme to become stale[/list] [list][*]Making adjustments to the coaching staff versus sticking with the same old same old[/list][list][*]Sound game and clock management versus inept clock management[/list][list][*]Accountability vs. a general lack of accountabilty[/list]
In Luce tua Videmus Lucem KRK
macbob
5 years ago
Having suffered through the 70s and 80s Packers, the expectations weren't lower (even though we were bottom dwelling in the NFL for the vast majority of those decades). The expectations were that the coaches would turn things around and return Green Bay to the top of the league.

If anything, the article is making the case that Sean Payton should have been fired, too.

Why should the Packers organization and fans tolerate below-.500 performance for the last three years (2016-2018)? McCarthy wasn't sufficiently correcting the problems leading to the below-.500 performance and he got fired.

Zero said it best: Boohoo.
rabidgopher04
5 years ago
If it wasn’t for Vince Lombardi would expectations even be as high as they are?

50+ years ago the Packers were so dominant, especially as the league was really growing, and it seems to still have a lasting effect.
Amazing Bacon Delivery  Service! Never be without good bacon again.
buckeyepackfan
5 years ago
Expectations!.
Always unrealistic from some in The Packer Nation.

The Saints had 2 , 7-9 seasons back to back.
They didn't panick and fire everyone.

Last weekends game only proves that it isn't always the better team who wins.

The Saints have now endured 2 heartbreaking playoff losses in a row.
One by a huge mistake by a rookie(rookies make mistakes see Micah Hyde vs 49rs, Ha Ha vs Seattle, Randall vs Arizona), the other by a blatant no call from the refs.

I wonder if The Saints are going to blow up their coaching staff?

Expectations!

2016 Packers beat The Giants at home then The Cowboys on the road.
They then headed to Atlanta with a beat up O-line, Jordy Nelson playing with broken ribs and a defense that featured their #5 corner as their shutdown guy due to injuries!

Packers get blown out!

Sometime the healthier team wins the game, not the team with more talent.
Not acceptable by The fans!
Expectations.

Now after 2 injury proned losing seasons The Packers have blown it all up.
I'm just wondering what the expectations are for 2019 .
I'm sure of one thing if the Packers are not preparing for The Super Bowl at this time next year there will be many who will think it was another wasted year.

Expectations!
I was addicted to The Hokey Pokey, but I turned myself around!
Zero2Cool
5 years ago

Expectations!.
Always unrealistic from some in The Packer Nation.

The Saints had 2 , 7-9 seasons back to back.
They didn't panick and fire everyone.

Expectations!

Originally Posted by: buckeyepackfan 



I think it was three, and I think they fired some of their coaching staff after the 2nd or 3rd 7 - 9 season.
UserPostedImage
KRK
  • KRK
  • Veteran Member
5 years ago
Cookie Pitchman Z2C is correct once again: [list]
  • Dan Campbell Asst Head Coached joined in 2015[/list][list][*]Dennis Allen DC joined in 2015[/list][list][*]Mike Westhoff Sp. Teams Joined in 2017[/list]

  • In Luce tua Videmus Lucem KRK
    gbguy20
    5 years ago
    edit: nvm trying to keep life light & positive today
    BAD EMAIL because the address couldn ot be found, or is unable to receive mail.
    buckeyepackfan
    5 years ago

    I think it was three, and I think they fired some of their coaching staff after the 2nd or 3rd 7 - 9 season.

    Originally Posted by: Zero2Cool 



    Coaches get fired or leave every year, replacing 3 is not blowing it up,
    There is the front office to consider.

    The whole article is about expectations!

    Zero, you know as well as anyone, having played the game that sometimes winning just isn't in the cards.

    I expect The Packers will once again be in the playoffs next year, but am not going to be real dissapointed if they don't make it or get bounced in the 1st or 2nd round.

    Most think Ted and Mike was the problem, now they are gone with most of the staff, I would really like to hear what others expectations are for 2019.
    I was addicted to The Hokey Pokey, but I turned myself around!
    DoddPower
    5 years ago

    I would really like to hear what others expectations are for 2019.

    Originally Posted by: buckeyepackfan 



    Super Bowl. No reason to blow things up if the Packers were willing to settle for less. They could have kept things the way they were for that.

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    beast (20-Nov) : We brought in a former Packers OL coach to help evaluate OL as a scout
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    beast (20-Nov) : More knowledge, just like bring in the Jets head coach
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    packerfanoutwest (19-Nov) : Jets are a mess......
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    Zero2Cool (19-Nov) : When you cycle the weeks, the total over remains for season. But you get your W/L for that selected week. Confusing.
    packerfanoutwest (19-Nov) : the total and percentage are the same as the previous weeks
    packerfanoutwest (19-Nov) : the total and percentage are the same as the previous weeks
    packerfanoutwest (19-Nov) : the totals are accurate..nrvrtmind
    Zero2Cool (19-Nov) : I don't follow what you are saying. The totals are not the same as last week.
    packerfanoutwest (19-Nov) : ok so then wht are the totals the same as last week?
    Zero2Cool (19-Nov) : NFL Pick'em is auto updated when NFL Scores tab is clicked
    Martha Careful (19-Nov) : The offense was OK. Let's not forget the Bear defense is very very good.
    packerfanoutwest (19-Nov) : Who updates the leaderboard on NFLPickem?
    beast (19-Nov) : Has the Packers offense been worse since the former Jets coach joined the Packers?
    Zero2Cool (19-Nov) : Offense gets his ass in gear, this could be good.
    Zero2Cool (19-Nov) : Backup QB helped with three wins. Special Teams contributed to three wins.
    bboystyle (18-Nov) : Lions played outside thats why. They scored 16 and 17 in the only 2 outside games this year
    Zero2Cool (18-Nov) : The rest of the NFL is catching up to Packers ... kicking is an issue throughout league
    packerfanoutwest (18-Nov) : Packers DL Kenny Clark: We knew 'we were going to block' Bears' game-winning field goal attempt
    Zero2Cool (18-Nov) : Lions seem to be throttling everyone, but only (only) got 24 lol maybe the rain is why
    Zero2Cool (18-Nov) : Packers vs Lions game doesn't seem so bad.
    beast (18-Nov) : Dennis Green "They are what we thought they were, and we let them off the hook!"
    Martha Careful (17-Nov) : comment of the day Z2Cool "Bears better than we want to admit. Packers worse than we think. It's facts."
    Mucky Tundra (17-Nov) : my worst case scenario: Bears fix their oline and get a coach like Johnson from the Lions and his scheme
    Zero2Cool (17-Nov) : Bears get OL fixed amd we might have a problem
    buckeyepackfan (17-Nov) : Pretty sure they already have scouting reports on guys who aren't even starting for their college team. The future is now for me.
    buckeyepackfan (17-Nov) : I tend to let Gute and Co. Worry about the future.
    beast (17-Nov) : That's great news and Packers need to keep upgrading their OL, DL and DBs this off-season, so missing one guy doesn't kill them
    beast (17-Nov) : That's great news and Packers need to keep upgrading their OL, DL and DBs this off-season, so missing one guy doesn't kill them
    buckeyepackfan (17-Nov) : Jaire and Evans Williams are both ACTIVE! Good news.
    Martha Careful (17-Nov) : The badgers really need to change the whole offensive scheme. No draws no screens plus the quarterback is marginal
    Cheesey (17-Nov) : If the Badgers had a decent QB, they would have won. The guy can't hit a wide open receiver
    Martha Careful (17-Nov) : chop block
    Martha Careful (17-Nov) : there was a very questionable job Block call that upon viewing replay was very borderline
    beast (17-Nov) : How so? (I didn't watch)
    Zero2Cool (17-Nov) : Badgers got hosed vs Oregon
    packerfanoutwest (16-Nov) : damn,he hasn't played since week 2
    Mucky Tundra (15-Nov) : poor guy can't catch a break
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