Zero2Cool
4 years ago

GREEN BAY, Wis. – Moving from right tackle to left tackle, like Green Bay Packers offensive lineman Billy Turner did the past three games, isn’t as easy as riding a bike or falling out of bed.

“How I refer to this is something that I heard Packers legend Josh Sitton say a few years ago in Miami, and that is, ‘It’s like wiping your ass with your opposite hand.’ And if you’ve ever tried that, I’m sure you know,” Turner said on Thursday.

Turner is one of the unsung heroes of the Packers’ 6-2 start. After an underwhelming first season in Green Bay as the starting right guard, Turner was shifted out to right tackle to replace longtime starter Bryan Bulaga. He was excellent at a position that is practically as important as the left tackle in terms of taming top pass rushers.

When four-time All-Pro left tackle David Bakhtiari suffered a chest injury at Tampa Bay, Turner started the last three games at left tackle. At least he had the practice week to prepare. Last week at San Francisco, after fill-in right tackle Rick Wagner aggravated a knee injury, Turner had the 12-minute halftime to get ready for his move back to right tackle.

Continue Reading @ Sports Illustrated 

Sports Illustrated wrote:



I don't really pay much attention to the OL, but I haven't heard Turner's name too much so I think he's doing well?
nerdmann
4 years ago
Almost like maybe Bakhtiari is a luxury. Could we get by without his cap hit?
“Winning is not a sometime thing, it is an all the time thing. You don't do things right once in a while…you do them right all the time.”
Cheesey
4 years ago

Almost like maybe Bakhtiari is a luxury. Could we get by without his cap hit?

Originally Posted by: nerdmann 



That’s a big maybe.
I’d still rather have Bakhtiari in that position.

And as far as the Josh Sitton comment about “wiping your ass with the opposite hand” reference, he is SO right! When I had surgery on my right shoulder and had to use my left hand for that, and seemingly easy things like brushing my teeth, it was like I never did those things in my life!

wpr
  • wpr
  • Preferred Member
4 years ago

Almost like maybe Bakhtiari is a luxury. Could we get by without his cap hit?

Originally Posted by: nerdmann 



NO!!

I am glad Turner is doing better than last year. (He really couldn't do worse.)

I was listening to a Packers podcast a few days ago that spoke about this. While Turner has done fairly well he really hasn't faced any DE/Edge who would be considered remotely elite. Do you want Turner or Bak facing the big boys like Mack, the Bosa brothers or Donaldson? I take Bak every time.

A week or two ago PFF charged Turner with giving up a sack to a guy who only had one sack on the year. That one. Even though he hasn't given up many sacks or pressures in the past few weeks, he has been losing the head to head battle on a regular basis. The thing that has saved Aaron is he was rolling to the right or he got rid of the ball quickly.
Zero2Cool
4 years ago

I was listening to a Packers podcast a few days ago that spoke about this. While Turner has done fairly well he really hasn't faced any DE/Edge who would be considered remotely elite. Do you want Turner or Bak facing the big boys like Mack, the Bosa brothers or Donaldson? I take Bak every time.

Originally Posted by: wpr 



Pay a guy $22 million a year to get steamrolled by Mack, Bosa brothers or Donaldson or pay someone $5 million a year. Spend wisely. 🧐
wpr
  • wpr
  • Preferred Member
4 years ago

Pay a guy $22 million a year to get steamrolled by Mack, Bosa brothers or Donaldson or pay someone $5 million a year. Spend wisely. 🧐

Originally Posted by: Zero2Cool 



Bak did not get steamrolled by anyone.

According to PFF Bak is 89. (90 is elite.) with 0 sacks allowed.
Last year 79.5 with 2 sacks.
In 2018 he was 88.9 4 sacks
2017 87.7 1 sack. It shows his penalties but they too are very few. QB pressures are behind the paywall.

Turner- 65.8/2
2019- 64.8/6
2018- 64.4/3
2017- 41.5/1

When I first saw how well Turner was doing my reaction was let Bak walk. When I realized Turner was facing lesser competition, I decided I would like to see he working against the better players before I anoint him heir to the LT position.
Zero2Cool
4 years ago

Bak did not get steamrolled by anyone.

According to PFF Bak is 89. (90 is elite.) with 0 sacks allowed.
Last year 79.5 with 2 sacks.
In 2018 he was 88.9 4 sacks
2017 87.7 1 sack. It shows his penalties but they too are very few. QB pressures are behind the paywall.

Turner- 65.8/2
2019- 64.8/6
2018- 64.4/3
2017- 41.5/1

When I first saw how well Turner was doing my reaction was let Bak walk. When I realized Turner was facing lesser competition, I decided I would like to see he working against the better players before I anoint him heir to the LT position.

Originally Posted by: wpr 



Do those grades exclude when the OL gets ran backwards into the QB or RB causing a play to crumble? Maybe they missed both 49ers games and the Chargers game? PFF? I say, pfft.
KRK
  • KRK
  • Veteran Member
4 years ago

Do those grades exclude when the OL gets ran backwards into the QB or RB causing a play to crumble? Maybe they missed both 49ers games and the Chargers game? PFF? I say, pfft.

Originally Posted by: Zero2Cool 

Fair point...however, you have not seen Turner against Bosa, or other elite DE's. Should/if Turner perform against them, then we could begin the discussion, but at this point, let's be happy we have a good back-up (or 2 with Jenkins)


In Luce tua Videmus Lucem KRK
wpr
  • wpr
  • Preferred Member
4 years ago

Do those grades exclude when the OL gets ran backwards into the QB or RB causing a play to crumble? Maybe they missed both 49ers games and the Chargers game? PFF? I say, pfft.

Originally Posted by: Zero2Cool 



You will have to discuss with PFF how they come up with their grades. I am sure the poor play that occasionally occurs to Bak is taken into consideration otherwise he would have a 100 or at least a 99.9 obviously he doesn't so he is not prefect but pretty damn near.

As for RB errors, that's on him. Some sacks are attributed to Aaron. Some to the line or a TE, WR or RB. The same holds true for incomplete passes. Some of the time is the QB and other times the WR. Still there are times when it's nobody's fault because the defender made a great play.

Look I don't buy into everything that PFF says but it is a starting point for a discussion. If you have access to a better metric bring it on.
Zero2Cool
4 years ago

You will have to discuss with PFF how they come up with their grades. I am sure the poor play that occasionally occurs to Bak is taken into consideration otherwise he would have a 100 or at least a 99.9 obviously he doesn't so he is not prefect but pretty damn near.

As for RB errors, that's on him. Some sacks are attributed to Aaron. Some to the line or a TE, WR or RB. The same holds true for incomplete passes. Some of the time is the QB and other times the WR. Still there are times when it's nobody's fault because the defender made a great play.

Look I don't buy into everything that PFF says but it is a starting point for a discussion. If you have access to a better metric bring it on.

Originally Posted by: wpr 



Nah, I don't really know OL worth a damn. I just noticed when the Packers play a tough defense and get punched in the face, they have no answer. And they say it starts in the trenches. So, why pay a guy that much money if you're still gonna get rolled up over?

The Packers cap for 2021 is something like $4 million below the projected cap, per Spotrac. 40% of that cap is tied up with Rodgers, Z. Smith and Davante. Maybe they can get cute with those contracts and open up some space? I think they need to add another free agent or two to get us over the hump and when you're paying 50% of your cap to five guys, that just really doesn't give you many options.

I like ProFootballFocus in the context that they grade everyone so you can at least see someone compares to someone else.
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Zero2Cool (27-Jan) : Packers coach Matt LaFleur hires Luke Getsy as senior assistant, extends Rich Bisaccia's deal
Zero2Cool (27-Jan) : Chiefs again huh? I guess another Super Bowl I'll be finding something else to do.
Mucky Tundra (27-Jan) : Chiefs Eagles...again...sigh
dfosterf (27-Jan) : Happy Birthday Dave!
Mucky Tundra (27-Jan) : happy birthday dhazer
TheKanataThrilla (26-Jan) : Exactly buck...Washington came up with the ball. It is just a shitty coincidence one week later
buckeyepackfan (26-Jan) : I forgot, they corrected the call a week later. Lol btw HAPPY BIRTHDAY dhazer!
buckeyepackfan (26-Jan) : That brings up the question, why wasn't Nixon down by contact? I think that was the point Kanata was making.
buckeyepackfan (26-Jan) : Turnovers rule, win the turnover battle, win the game.
packerfanoutwest (26-Jan) : well, he was
TheKanataThrilla (26-Jan) : Eagles down by contact on the fumble....fuck you NFL
Mucky Tundra (26-Jan) : I think this games over
beast (26-Jan) : Eagles sure get a lot of fumbles on kickoffs
Mucky Tundra (26-Jan) : This game looks too big for Washington
packerfanoutwest (26-Jan) : that being said, The Ravens are the Browns
packerfanoutwest (26-Jan) : Browns, Dolphins have longest AFC Championship droughts
packerfanoutwest (26-Jan) : As of today, Cowboys have longest NFC Championship drought,
beast (26-Jan) : Someone pointed out, with Raiders hiring Carroll, the division games between Carroll and Jim Harbaugh are back on (who can whine more games)
beast (26-Jan) : I'm confused, Pete Carroll and Brian Schottenheimer? When Todd Monken, Joe Brady, Kellen Moore, Kliff Kingsbury and Zac Robinson are availab
Zero2Cool (25-Jan) : Any reason I'm catching a shot here about my intelligence?
Martha Careful (25-Jan) : thank you Mucky for sticking up for me
Martha Careful (25-Jan) : some of those people are smarter than you zero. However Pete Carroll is not
Mucky Tundra (24-Jan) : Rude!
beast (24-Jan) : Martha? 😋
Zero2Cool (24-Jan) : Raiders hired someone from the elderly home.
dfosterf (24-Jan) : I'm going with a combination of the two.
beast (24-Jan) : Either the Cowboys have no idea what they're doing, or they're targeting their former OC, currently the Eagles OC
Zero2Cool (23-Jan) : Fake news. Cowboys say no
Zero2Cool (23-Jan) : Mystery candidate in the Cowboys head coaching search believed to be Packers ST Coordinator Rich Bisaccia.
beast (23-Jan) : Also why do both NYC teams have absolutely horrible OL for over a decade?
beast (23-Jan) : I wonder why the Jets always hire defensive coaches to be head coach
Zero2Cool (22-Jan) : Still HC positions available out there. I wonder if Hafley pops up for one
Zero2Cool (22-Jan) : Trent Baalke is out as the Jaguars GM.
dfosterf (22-Jan) : Jeff Hafley would have been a better choice, fortunately they don't know that. Someone will figure that out next off season
Zero2Cool (22-Jan) : Aaron Glenn Planning To Take Jets HC Job
dfosterf (22-Jan) : Martha- C'est mon boulot! 😁
Zero2Cool (22-Jan) : Thank you
wpr (22-Jan) : Z, glad you are feeling better.
wpr (22-Jan) : My son and D-I-L work for UM. It's a way to pick on them.
Zero2Cool (22-Jan) : Thank you. I rarely get sick, and even more rarely sick to the point I can't work.
wpr (22-Jan) : Beast- back to yesterday, I CAN say OSU your have been Michigan IF the odds of making the playoffs were more urgent.
dfosterf (22-Jan) : Glad to hear you are feeling a bit better.
Zero2Cool (22-Jan) : I've been near death ill last several days, finally feel less dead and site issues.
Zero2Cool (22-Jan) : It is a big deal. This host is having issues. It's frustrating.
Martha Careful (22-Jan) : just kidding...it was down
Martha Careful (22-Jan) : you were blocked yesterday, due to a a recalcitrant demeanor yesterday in the penalty box for a recalcitrant demeanor
dfosterf (22-Jan) : Was that site shutdown on your end or mine? No big deal, just curious
beast (21-Jan) : That way teams like Indiana and SMU don't make the conference championships by simply avoiding all the other good teams in their own confere
beast (21-Jan) : Also, with these "Super Conferences" instead of a single conference champion, have 4 teams make a Conference playoffs.
beast (21-Jan) : Also in college football, is a bye week a good or bad thing?
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