steveishere
10 years ago
Thought this was kind of interesting. Marshawn Lynch on 20 carries forced 7 missed tackles while Lacy/Starks on 19 carries forced 10 missed tackles. The big difference to me was blocking on the edges and their LBs covered up when guys missed tackles while ours were getting blocked.
Mucky Tundra
10 years ago

Thought this was kind of interesting. Marshawn Lynch on 20 carries forced 7 missed tackles while Lacy/Starks on 19 carries forced 10 missed tackles. The big difference to me was blocking on the edges and their LBs covered up when guys missed tackles while ours were getting blocked.

Originally Posted by: steveishere 



Yeah the difference in LB was striking. On more than one occasion Lynch would cut back and having nothing but daylight in front of him. Lacy on the other hand, had to work for just about everything.
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musccy
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10 years ago

On top of that he makes terrible decisions in the run game. Everyone wants to bash raji. Look what happened without him. The problem is hawk being the best ILB on the field

Originally Posted by: cheeseheads123 



With Raji in the game we give up historic performances to A. Peterson and Kaepernick.

I agree to some extent with what Darkane said. The team needed a reality check like this to more effectively assess a bunch of new/inexperienced pieces across the defense. HOWEVER, if you don't have the tools you need, what can you do?

For the DLine we have...
- a 2014 UDFA who was average at the NCAA D2 level
- a 2013 5th rounder
- a veteran the Vikings didn't want to retain w/ 5 career NFL sacks in 5 years
- a 3rd year who showed a lot of promise as a rising star in 2013 (Daniels)
- a 2013 1st rounder with an underwhelming first season.

That's it. In a game won/lost in the trenches, that's what the Packers are going to bat with. If I'm a 2014 Packer opponent, I'm laughing as I do once of these... [aiee] Then when they see Hawk and Brad Jones ARE STILL starting at LB, they'll probably all go out and buy lottery tickets.
DoddPower
10 years ago

I truly am wondering what the hell was going on when Guion was tabbed as starter for this game. Guy didn't play until the last preseason game, missed a lot of the offseason stuff with an injury and he's declared starter for this game!? Why? I can only guess that it's because he's a vet and has more experience than Boyd.

Originally Posted by: Mucky Tundra 



Or maybe it just shows what they truly think of Boyd? Who knows.

steveishere
10 years ago

Or maybe it just shows what they truly think of Boyd? Who knows.

Originally Posted by: DoddPower 



Maybe but that still doesn't make sense because Boyd looked a hell of a lot better when he was in there. I'm leaning towards Dom being Dom and preferring the vet for no reason other than the fact that he's a vet.

It's getting old seeing younger guys only getting a shot due to injuries or superior play over several weeks before they actually overtake an underperforming vet. I wouldn't be surprised to see Guion stay the starter a few more weeks even if Boyd clearly outplays him game after game.
DoddPower
10 years ago

Maybe but that still doesn't make sense because Boyd looked a hell of a lot better when he was in there. I'm leaning towards Dom being Dom and preferring the vet for no reason other than the fact that he's a vet.

It's getting old seeing younger guys only getting a shot due to injuries or superior play over several weeks before they actually overtake an underperforming vet. I wouldn't be surprised to see Guion stay the starter a few more weeks even if Boyd clearly outplays him game after game.

Originally Posted by: steveishere 



Well, I'm certainly not going to defend Dom Capers. I think his time has passed for a season or two now. I just feel it's been time to gamble on someone else. It could bite the Packers in the ass (but how much worse could it truly get?), but it very well could improve the defense. I think it's a risk worth taking, at least in the off season, but I'm not getting paid by a NFL team, unfortunately. But does anyone actually believe there is not a coach out there that could at least do marginally better with the Packers defense over the past 2-3 seasons?
Mucky Tundra
10 years ago

Maybe but that still doesn't make sense because Boyd looked a hell of a lot better when he was in there. I'm leaning towards Dom being Dom and preferring the vet for no reason other than the fact that he's a vet.

It's getting old seeing younger guys only getting a shot due to injuries or superior play over several weeks before they actually overtake an underperforming vet. I wouldn't be surprised to see Guion stay the starter a few more weeks even if Boyd clearly outplays him game after game.

Originally Posted by: steveishere 



It's slightly baffling how this team operates: we throw UDFA and rookies into the fire at some positions but at others they get completely buried.
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steveishere
10 years ago
HHCD has already defended as many passes as MD Jennings did all last season so there's also that lol.
DoddPower
10 years ago

HHCD has already defended as many passes as MD Jennings did all last season so there's also that lol.

Originally Posted by: steveishere 



He missed some tackles, but overall, I thought it was a decent showing for the rookie's first game. The kid has upside, but it will take some time. I'm glad he got some experience in Seattle.
Mucky Tundra
10 years ago

HHCD has already defended as many passes as MD Jennings did all last season so there's also that lol.

Originally Posted by: steveishere 



Yeah he definitely took his rookie lumps but you can see an NFL starter in him.
Under Construction!
steveishere
10 years ago

Well, I'm certainly not going to defend Dom Capers. I think his time has passed for a season or two now. I just feel it's been time to gamble on someone else. It could bite the Packers in the ass (but how much worse could it truly get?), but it very well could improve the defense. I think it's a risk worth taking, at least in the off season, but I'm not getting paid by a NFL team, unfortunately. But does anyone actually believe there is not a coach out there that could at least do marginally better with the Packers defense over the past 2-3 seasons?

Originally Posted by: DoddPower 



I think we have a lot of really talented players on this D still. Dom's schemes are just crap. Every team has areas of weakness at some positions but good D coordinators cover up those weaknesses. Any of Dom's teams weaknesses just simply get exposed to an embarrassing degree.

If you think about 2010 we had all-pro type play out of 2 lineman (Jenkins,Raji) 1 LB (Bishop) and 1 DB (Tramon). We had hall-of-fame type of play out of 1 pass rusher (Matthews) and 2 DBs (Woodson, Collins). It really honestly should not take that level of talent to have a good defense, that's a ridiculous standard to me.

We have a strong secondary and a strong stable of pass rushers on defense. There may not be enough talent to expect to run out a top 5 defense but there is certainly IMO enough talent that an embarrassing display like last night is inexcusable.
steveishere
10 years ago

He missed some tackles, but overall, I thought it was a decent showing for the rookie's first game. The kid has upside, but it will take some time. I'm glad he got some experience in Seattle.

Originally Posted by: DoddPower 



I just thought it was nice to see a QB throw a ball up down field and have the Safety get to it in time.
musccy
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10 years ago

I think we have a lot of really talented players on this D still. Dom's schemes are just crap.

Originally Posted by: steveishere 



Who are the talented players you see? I'm not trying to sound like a snarky smart ass, I'm genuinely curious who you view as the talented players? Maybe I'm overlooking how D Jones performed on the line, or Guion's upside.

Personally I feel decent about the secondary, CM3, and I was encouraged by Peppers, but beyond that the front 7 scares the hell out of me going forward in 2014.
voiceofreason
10 years ago
Dom should have been gone 2 years ago. Tired of seeing his blank expression during games as he fails to make adjustments and the defense actually gets worse in the second half.

blank
steveishere
10 years ago

Who are the talented players you see? I'm not trying to sound like a snarky smart ass, I'm genuinely curious who you view as the talented players? Maybe I'm overlooking how D Jones performed on the line, or Guion's upside.

Personally I feel decent about the secondary, CM3, and I was encouraged by Peppers, but beyond that the front 7 scares the hell out of me going forward in 2014.

Originally Posted by: musccy 



3 good CBs and 1 (House) who might be good but we don't know right now. Our S really didn't get tested too much but they are at least way better than last year. We have good pass rush off the edges with Matthews/Peppers and Perry subbing in. We have a disruptive guy on the interior in Daniels. Boyd and Datone are still unknown at this point but they at least looked solid to me, they shouldn't be on the bench as much as they are. Guion is not good and won't be good but he should be the rotational guy not the guy playing the most snaps on the line.

My point isn't that we should have the best D in the league with these guys but we should be able to perform a hell of a lot better than they did last night and have in the past. Dom is simply not getting the best out of the talent that is available.
musccy
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10 years ago

3 good CBs and 1 (House) who might be good but we don't know right now. Our S really didn't get tested too much but they are at least way better than last year. We have good pass rush off the edges with Matthews/Peppers and Perry subbing in. We have a disruptive guy on the interior in Daniels. Boyd and Datone are still unknown at this point but they at least looked solid to me, they shouldn't be on the bench as much as they are. Guion is not good and won't be good but he should be the rotational guy not the guy playing the most snaps on the line.

My point isn't that we should have the best D in the league with these guys but we should be able to perform a hell of a lot better than they did last night and have in the past. Dom is simply not getting the best out of the talent that is available.

Originally Posted by: steveishere 



As I alluded to before, I feel OK about the secondary as well. Still way too early to tell on the S, but I have confidence in the CBs coverage and even tackling abilities.

Daniels was pretty bad last night, and as you even said there are a lot of ?s at DLine still and throughout the LBs.

I'm not excusing Dom by any stretch, but I also really question the talent up front.

Cheesey
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10 years ago
Yeah, you can only play with the guys you have on your team. If they aren't getting it done, what can the D-coach do?
The D needs someone other then just CM3 to play hard and nasty.
I didn't see anything form "Orange Julius" to make me feel like he's the answer opposite CM3.
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steveishere
10 years ago

Yeah, you can only play with the guys you have on your team. If they aren't getting it done, what can the D-coach do?
The D needs someone other then just CM3 to play hard and nasty.
I didn't see anything form "Orange Julius" to make me feel like he's the answer opposite CM3.

Originally Posted by: Cheesey 



Some guys play better with the guys on their team than others regardless of who the guys are. It's pretty apparent at this point which group Capers fits in. Even if you take the players out of the equation and look at formations and play calls it's pretty apparent Capers is being out coached on a pretty regular basis by any decent OC. We're out there in dime and nickle when the other team is running it down our throat and being caught completely off guard by anything but standard plays/formations. Also throw in that vets who play poorly are basically immune from losing their jobs to any younger players. Dom's time has passed, I'm not sure if he'd even be able to land a job by next year if we released him right now.
Wade
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10 years ago

Thought this was kind of interesting. Marshawn Lynch on 20 carries forced 7 missed tackles while Lacy/Starks on 19 carries forced 10 missed tackles. The big difference to me was blocking on the edges and their LBs covered up when guys missed tackles while ours were getting blocked.

Originally Posted by: steveishere 



You sure it wasn't "Marshawn Lynch forced 7 missed tackles per play while Lacy/Starks forced 10 total", though?

I swear I saw Brad Jones alone miss more than 7 tackles. But maybe he only missed 1 or 2. He was just too far away from where he was supposed to be for what he did to be close enough to be considered a "tackle attempt."


And do not be conformed to this world, but be transformed by the renewing of your mind, that you may prove what is that good and acceptable and perfect will of God.
Romans 12:2 (NKJV)
Wade
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10 years ago
Oh, yes, and if the defense has to resort to a schoolyard gimmick like the "Amoeba" defense, what does that say about things?

It was sorta cute to see...once.

I'm not a huge Capers fan. But that a long time coach like Capers feels that it is necessary to resort to smoke and mirrors to stop a team tells me something about the quality of the defensive personnel he's working with. And that another long time coach like McCarthy seems to agree on the necessity of such gimmicks in a "new look," tells me something about the attitude of the leadership of the team that I don't like.

Call me a whiner if you wish.

But this kind of performance should be completely, utterly, totally, swear-in-front-of-your-grandma unacceptable.

I saw more strive-to-dominate from the Wayne Fontes Lions and the Mike Tice Vikings than in the three quarters of the game I got to see last night.

Mike McCarthy: "We won't sit here and dwell on it." (from the PH Tweeter) WTF is that shit? This is not a performance they need to "put in the past and move on from." This is a performance that needs to be lit up with spotlights and stripped utterly naked.

I'm glad I'm having a colonoscopy next week. That's a few hours I won't have to burn about this game between now and the Jets.

And I'm glad they're playing the Jets next week. All I can say it had better be a (large) double-digit win.




And do not be conformed to this world, but be transformed by the renewing of your mind, that you may prove what is that good and acceptable and perfect will of God.
Romans 12:2 (NKJV)
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