Dear Ted, Never Change· Page 3

dhazer
Veteran Member

11 years ago

I am excited to see if we make the playoffs with our 8-8 record if lucky but hey if we make the playoffs why should we make any changes right.

Just Imagine this for the next 6-9 years. What a ride it will be 🙂 (PS, Zero should charge for this)

play2win
Senior Member

11 years ago

#22

4 excellent posts PFWT, Laser, Dodd and porky. That is exactly it.

Looks like we may contend in 2015. "May." Draft & Develop is as high a risk as jumping into FA. All these people screaming about teams overpaying. I'm sorry, if you win a SB with one of your high priced acquisitions making a major contribution, I can't see how that is not considered a great return on investment. That's value.

You can't win if you don't play. As it stands, we have not one player under contract who came in as a top FA talent. Not one. I see zero balance with our means of acquiring talent, and believe trusting solely in the draft to be more than a bit obstinate on Ted's part, and hurting our chances more than helping them.

Take a flyer on a top, proven talent! What the hell do we have to lose really? ...and don't say Jordy & Cobb! No one should be able to say that when we've had sloths like Brad Jones hanging around...

Dear Ted, please change~!

Yerko
Senior Member

11 years ago

#23

Linebacker - Inside especially, Outside secondarily, yeah, I agree, but Safety, no. A proven veteran is what we need. Neither Ward - gone now - nor Byrd are chronic injury problems. Drafting a Safety and starting him would help down the road if the guy was good, but for this year, we need to fill that hole with an experienced but still talented veteran.

Originally Posted by: texaspackerbacker

There is a good chance Ted can still fill that safety spot with a veteran presence...in his own style. Chris Clemons and Ryan Clark are still out there. Now, if he doesn't go and pick up one of these guys, I won't be mad but then I might start questioning what in the world he is doing.

These are two veteran guys who can come in with that veteran presence "at the right price" and put the Packers secondary in a better position. I'd prefer Chris Clemons over Ryan Clark but there seems to be a lot more interest for Clemons.

Porforis
Veteran Member

11 years ago

#24

Originally Posted by: play2win

Drafting versus FA signings carry different risks and rewards.

Drafting is LOW risk in terms of $$$. If you end up with a stinker, you don't play him and drafted enough other players that the next guy up has a chance to not stink it up. With the way the Packers draft at positions of need, you usually end up with at LEAST one player that's at the very least not a liability.
Drafting is HIGH risk in terms of not knowing how someone will perform at the pro level. If their performance is not up to par, is it because they suck or is it because they need more playing time?

FA signings are LOW risk in terms of knowing who you're getting. Of course people can still get injured or not fit in with the system or have his level of play drop off, but for the most part you have a general idea of what you're getting.
FA signings are HIGH risk in terms of $$$. If your higher-dollar FA signing results in a stinker, he's going to eat up a lot more $$$ than a comparably stinky draft pick.

Looking at things this way, I don't see much of a point in spending millions on a free agent unless your team is one or two veterans short of a legitimate super bowl run. In previous years I was disappointed with the lack of free agent signings when we were overloaded with talent on offense. Now that our defense still stinks and we've lost several WRs and we have continual O line issues, I'd say that two second-tier or one top-tier FA signing at the expense of a couple 2nd rounders and a couple late rounders worth of money does not benefit the team in the short or long term. We're just missing too many pieces to have the attitude of "If we only had a Safety...". If we get a top tier safety, he's still going to struggle if we can't get a pass rush and get gutted on the ground.

play2win
Senior Member

11 years ago

#25

Originally Posted by: Porforis

No question. Pass rush is key for any secondary. The thing is, both pass rushers and Safeties take time to develop. Rarely are they significant rookie contributors as both have different needs in development. Safeties require experience at the pro level to know what they are seeing. DL generally need a year or two to physically develop to the point where they are consistently effective. We now really have to hope Datone and Josh develop well to be key contributors this year. And, I'm not sure what we can expect at S.

Figure, what is Rodgers' window? How many years of that can we burn holding to just the draft, hoping to contend? I see 2 or 3 years gone already. We were poised to win it all in 2011 and 2012, both years just one or two key players away IMO, both 2011 and 2012 pass rush and Safety. Last year, the same.

There are/were vets to be had who could have stepped right in and immediately made this team better.

We need balance in our talent acquisition. Right now we have none.

PackFanWithTwins
Veteran Member

11 years ago

#26

Looking at things this way, I don't see much of a point in spending millions on a free agent unless your team is one or two veterans short of a legitimate super bowl run. In previous years I was disappointed with the lack of free agent signings when we were overloaded with talent on offense. Now that our defense still stinks and we've lost several WRs and we have continual O line issues, I'd say that two second-tier or one top-tier FA signing at the expense of a couple 2nd rounders and a couple late rounders worth of money does not benefit the team in the short or long term. We're just missing too many pieces to have the attitude of "If we only had a Safety...". If we get a top tier safety, he's still going to struggle if we can't get a pass rush and get gutted on the ground.

Originally Posted by: Porforis

Normally I agree, but our holes are not that great. There is no telling if players that fill our need will be available when we pick in the draft, and trying to draft NEED is far riskier than just drafting the best player regardless of position.

There is really no player left his year internally that justifies a salary to use up the space we have, that gives us the ability to improve the top of our depth in places of need, using front loaded contracts to protect the future cap space, while still allowing us to draft the best players regardless of position or need to develop for the future.

The world needs ditch diggers too Danny!!!

sschind
Senior Member

11 years ago

#27

there are 11 starters on offense and 11 on defense and at the very least a team should look to replace the worst starter of the 11 each and every year. Sometimes that is not possible (contract reasons or maybe your worst guy is a project that you don't want to give up on) so you look to replace the next worse. Whatever number the guys is, worst, 2nd worst, 3rd worst, the lower tier guys need to be replaced. I think you can look at any offensive and defensive roster in the NFL and think that it is possible to get a better player in at least one of the positions. I also don't think it is realistic to expect more than 2 starters out of draft every year. Sometimes you get lucky and hit on more but to expect it is unreasonable. So, if you want to replace more than the absolute minimum (one player on each side) you have to look at free agency. Now that doesn't mean the replacement for the worst guy has to be the best guy. Replacing a #11 guy with a #6 or 7 guy is an improvement but in that case I would say you should strive to replace the #10 guy with a #5 or #6 guys as well. Replacing the #11 guy with a #10 guy is not really much of an improvement.

Wade
Veteran Member

11 years ago

#28

If -- and the operative word here is *if* -- Thompson signs two free agents that are this year's equivalent in quality what Woodson and Pickett were in 2006, I could care less whether he signs them two days after FA starts or 2 days before the draft. I could care less whether he picks up in the first wave or not. But I do care if he ends up doing as little as he did in pre-draft FA in 2005, 2007, 2008, 2009, 2010, 2011, 2012, AND 2013.

Face it, you Thompson apologists. Actions speak louder than words. One year in 9 where you pick up two quality players is not "active in March/April free-agency". One year in 9 means either "you aren't committed enough" or "you aren't willing to take enough risks". And if it is either of those, then you damn well better be the best draft-and-develop GM in the modern era in most of those other 8 years.

Thompson is, IMO, an above-average evaluator of draft talent. He is *NOT* IMO good enough to warrant being content with batting .111 pre-draft.

And do not be conformed to this world, but be transformed by the renewing of your mind, that you may prove what is that good and acceptable and perfect will of God.
Romans 12:2 (NKJV)

Wade
Veteran Member

11 years ago

#29

That's a good point.

Seems Ted will resign his guys that have proven to him they are worth a 2nd or 3rd contract before going outside the organization.

Shields is back, Lattimore is tendered.

There's 15 other Packer UFA's to sort through.

The fact that hardly any were mentioned in the 1st day probably means Ted's wait and see attitude is going to save the organizations some money.

Sure hopes he brings back EDS next then works on Jolly, Pickett and Raji(2 of the 3), let's not forget about Flynn, Quarless and Neal, and if there is money left over I would love to see James Jones and James Starks back.

Then there is the task of extending Jordy and Randall Cobb.

Just my opinion, but it seems that other teams UFA's are overvalued by the fans while The Packers UFA's are undervalued.

Only day 2 of Free Agency still time for Ted to surprise everyone with an outside signing.

Originally Posted by: buckfan1956

I'm only going to speak to the defensive side.

Shields, Lattimore, Jolly, Pickett, Raji,and Neal -- these were all on the team last year. The team that, in mine and a lot of people's opinion, flat-out sucked. The team that I have heard absolutely no one say was high enough quality. If you sign no one in FA on defense then you MUST hit draft home runs to improve next year's defense. Not just find more defensive players that you can "develop", not just find some draftees who can "start," but you need to find draftees that can be *better* starters than are already on the team.

One such starter just about any GM can probably get. Ask for two, and it can happen. Need three, and you better damn be the best drafter in history.

Personally, I'd rather "gamble" on someone who at least has already demonstrated not just potential but actual high-level NFL performance than "gamble" on my own ability to be better at getting those draft-and-develop types after having demonstrated the latter through such picks as Justin Harrell, Mike Neal, B J Raji, Jerrod McMillian, Davon House, etc.

Maybe some of us overvalue other teams UFAs. No doubt. But at least those UFAs have NFL track records. Which not a single draftee or potential draftee ever does. And IMO if you look at TT's track record as a drafter, I think one can find plenty of support for the proposition that many fans also overvalue the extent of TT's draft-day superiority over all of other NFL GMs who play in the UFA market more than he does.

And do not be conformed to this world, but be transformed by the renewing of your mind, that you may prove what is that good and acceptable and perfect will of God.
Romans 12:2 (NKJV)

Wade
Veteran Member

11 years ago

#30

I agree. And you would think we would have learned something from last year. Bad running game. Everyone screaming about Stephen Jackson. Ted Thompson doesn't budge. Drafts Lacy. Becomes OROY. Running game solved. Fans happy. Just another day for TT.

Now, bad defense. (Not the first year for that though). Fans clamoring to sign old, injured, expensive Free Agents. Ted Thompson doesn't budge. Man, I am excited for the draft!!!

Originally Posted by: QCHuskerFan

Of course last year also wasn't the first year where the team went into free agency where people wanted a better running game. Last year was the year Ted Thompson hit the home run with Lacy, but it wasn't the first time people wanted him giving more attention than he did.

(I wasn't one of those people -- as always, I was ranting about the OL rather than RB -- but I do think using the Lacy example is a dangerous one.)

And do not be conformed to this world, but be transformed by the renewing of your mind, that you may prove what is that good and acceptable and perfect will of God.
Romans 12:2 (NKJV)

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