psico
11 years ago
IF true (which I highly doubt), it is a fundamental shift in philosophy to what made the Packers superbowl champions. Personnell is the big question mark, along with scheme.
sschind
11 years ago

Yeah, yeah - you're the clown that thinks a person can live like a king on $1,200 a month. 🙄 I say Matthews is the guy that should be taking a pay cut. What do we get about 12 games a year out of him. Tramon can just play out the contract he has and hopefully Hayward will be ready to take over by then.

Originally Posted by: DakotaT 



They just gave Matthews his contract last year right? They aren't going to be redoing it this soon.

As far as Williams goes I think it comes down to whether or not the Packers want to keep him after this year. If they do then they can easily come up with some sort of extension that will give him his 7.5 million his year and still ease the cap hit. If they have no interest in resigning him after this season they might as well cut him loose now and use the 7.5 million on someone they want to have around.

You have said (at least I think it was you) that Williams has no incentive to renegotiate or restructure or basically do anything that would help the Packers cap wise. If he plays this year he is guaranteed 7.5 million dollars so why would he do anything to change that. The thing is the 7.5 million is only guaranteed if the Packers keep him. I could easily see them parting ways with him a year earlier if they don't have plans on keeping him around after this year. Let them cut his ass and see if he can get 7.5 million from someone else.

The thing is he may be worth the 7.5 million but if there is a chance that they can get him to reduce the cap hit you can be damned sure they will try. My suggestion would be to sign him to a three year extension/restructure. Pay him a million in salary this season and a roster bonus of .5 million at some point and convert the remaining 6 million into a SB (he gets a check for 6 million immediately and doesn't have to wait for game checks (that should be an incentive right there) the only thing would be if they can agree on an acceptable salary for the remaining 3 years keeping in mind he will have a cap hit of 1.5 million for each of the next three years from the signing bonus. By my calculation that would reduce his cap hit this year by 4 or 4.5 million. Easily enough to keep a couple of our lower tier guys if we want.
DakotaT
11 years ago



The thing is he may be worth the 7.5 million but if there is a chance that they can get him to reduce the cap hit you can be damned sure they will try.

Originally Posted by: sschind 



I just think you're playing with fire when you do shit like that. Why fuck with these guy's heads like that. The guy tackles like a woman, but he still covers pretty well and he came up big for us in the past. If we cut him, he won't be out of work very long. It really isn't about Tramon, it's about the faith we have in Hampton - and of course if we can resign Shields.
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sschind
11 years ago

I just think you're playing with fire when you do shit like that. Why fuck with these guy's heads like that. The guy tackles like a woman, but he still covers pretty well and he came up big for us in the past. If we cut him, he won't be out of work very long. It really isn't about Tramon, it's about the faith we have in Hampton - and of course if we can resign Shields.

Originally Posted by: DakotaT 



now the fucking with a guys head thing is a legit argument but if he is getting all he has coming to him, in this case the 7.5 million in salary he is due (please check the very last part of my previous post, I made an edit while you were replying and I think you missed my suggestion for a possible deal) I don't see how it is bad for him. Obviously if he thinks he can cash in on a bigger deal after next year he may not want to go for it and see what comes from the FA market next year. Also your point about not wanting to keep him around after next year anyway is also valid and obviously if they are not interested him past this year my suggestion is moot. On the other hand, if it all comes together, like I said, I fail to see why you wouldn't give it a try.

nerdmann
11 years ago

IF true (which I highly doubt), it is a fundamental shift in philosophy to what made the Packers superbowl champions. Personnell is the big question mark, along with scheme.

Originally Posted by: psico 



To me, health is a bigger factor than personnel, and even at this point, scheme.
“Winning is not a sometime thing, it is an all the time thing. You don't do things right once in a while…you do them right all the time.”
nerdmann
11 years ago

now the fucking with a guys head thing is a legit argument but if he is getting all he has coming to him, in this case the 7.5 million in salary he is due (please check the very last part of my previous post, I made an edit while you were replying and I think you missed my suggestion for a possible deal) I don't see how it is bad for him. Obviously if he thinks he can cash in on a bigger deal after next year he may not want to go for it and see what comes from the FA market next year. Also your point about not wanting to keep him around after next year anyway is also valid and obviously if they are not interested him past this year my suggestion is moot. On the other hand, if it all comes together, like I said, I fail to see why you wouldn't give it a try.

Originally Posted by: sschind 



Pay your guys. If someday, a free agent did happen by, he'd look at how Ted treats his guys. Generally, Ted treats his guys well. Veterans get respect and his guys get paid, usually before the contracts are up.

Tramon had a bad nerve injury in his shoulder and he gutted it out, because we needed him. He's a little older now, but he's healthy too. He manned up this past year, imo. I don't mind paying him his contract, not only for his own sake, but for the message that it sends.
“Winning is not a sometime thing, it is an all the time thing. You don't do things right once in a while…you do them right all the time.”
texaspackerbacker
11 years ago
What I'm seeing here is a lot of the same short-sightedness and lack of imagination that causes some people to whine that we can't afford good players.

Tramon Williams has maybe 3-4 decent years left - decent, not great. A decent NFL Corner has value. Give him a $8 million bonus and a 4 year deal for $1, 2, 3, and 5 million each year - he probably would not see the 4th year, maybe not the 3rd if he deteriorates. Instead of $9.5 million, he counts $3 million against the cap. Could he do better elsewhere? I doubt it - certainly not for a championship caliber team.

That's the kind of thing I mean when I say creative capology ain't that difficult.

As for Matthews, he is a game changing talent. There is absolutely zero reason to expect recurrence of the hand injury (the hamstring worries me more). The deal as I recall it, is not that unfriendly to the cap. If we can get decent enough performance from the DE in front of him and/or the opposite OLB, so he can't be double teamed so much, he should be well worth what he is paid.

We should easily be able to keep Shields and anybody else worth keeping, re-sign Sitton, Lang, Nelson, and Cobb when the time comes, and still have plenty of ability to get at least a top flight Safety - Byrd or T.J. Ward - and maybe more.
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play2win
11 years ago
I'm wondering if Dom Capers didn't walk into Ted's office and demand some better talent? I mean, the guy has had fans calling for his head for years now, and he has had to try to run his D since 2011 with inferior talent at a number of key positions. We'll see just how much of a player we are in FA… I'm not going to hold my breath, but I would be very happy to see them land one or two top talents where we need them before the draft. A Safety and a LB, or a S and a DL. Something!

Add to that, the health of this team has been abysmal, like stink on shit. We have not been able to field a team of our best players because they are constantly in the training room or on the sidelines, inactive. Man, do I want to see this change as well!

Two very different aspects of our Packers folly for three years running, the personnel staff and the training staff, and I hope it stops with the crash of our 2013 season. Time to add top talent via Free Agency, and for God's sake, keep their players healthy.

As a fan, I've been so completely disappointed by these two major blunders (personnel & health). I feel we missed the boat on stacking SBs during these last 3 years mostly because we didn't add players at key positions of need. I also felt letting Cullen Jenkins walk after 2010 was a grave error. I knew it when all the offseason posturing was taking place, practically right after our SB win. As a GM, you can't let impact players like that walk to another team. Add to that, taking a hard stand against use of FA seems a bit pig headed, especially when your team has real needs on D while your O is poised for success. Hey, what happened to making a trade? I know that can be difficult with the cap, but certainly not impossible.

The major point is we were sitting right there, ready offensively to win another championship, but defensively we needed players who could step in immediately and contribute at an NFL level. We didn't have time to wait for youth to develop. Not when Collins went down. Not when Bishop went down. Not when Jenkins walked. All of that happened in 2011. Oddly enough, it is 2014 and we are still trying to find talent to fill those positions.

Add to that, the health of this team was an issue in 2010. What was done in these last 3 seasons to correct that? Nothing.
+1
El3ment12
11 years ago
Byrd is going to get a shit ton of money. There's so few elite safteys in this league.

I heard on NFL network that we might pick up a lot of guys to fit around Caper's scheme. Although Ted hasn't done a bad job at all in drafting. It seemed every other damn play another injury happened to our defense!
sschind
11 years ago

What I'm seeing here is a lot of the same short-sightedness and lack of imagination that causes some people to whine that we can't afford good players.

Tramon Williams has maybe 3-4 decent years left - decent, not great. A decent NFL Corner has value. Give him a $8 million bonus and a 4 year deal for $1, 2, 3, and 5 million each year - he probably would not see the 4th year, maybe not the 3rd if he deteriorates. Instead of $9.5 million, he counts $3 million against the cap. Could he do better elsewhere? I doubt it - certainly not for a championship caliber team.

That's the kind of thing I mean when I say creative capology ain't that difficult.

As for Matthews, he is a game changing talent. There is absolutely zero reason to expect recurrence of the hand injury (the hamstring worries me more). The deal as I recall it, is not that unfriendly to the cap. If we can get decent enough performance from the DE in front of him and/or the opposite OLB, so he can't be double teamed so much, he should be well worth what he is paid.

We should easily be able to keep Shields and anybody else worth keeping, re-sign Sitton, Lang, Nelson, and Cobb when the time comes, and still have plenty of ability to get at least a top flight Safety - Byrd or T.J. Ward - and maybe more.

Originally Posted by: texaspackerbacker 



You have to remember that 2 million of Williams cap hit this year is from the signing bonus on his last contract. That has been paid and I don't know if it can be wiped off the books cap wise by including it in a new deal. I think that will count no matter what. You say an 8 million dollar bonus for 4 years. That is an additional 2 million per year hit. If you have to count his existing 2 million SB his cap hit would be 5 million not 3. Still a savings of 4.5 million. The point is and this is where you and I agree, there is a big chunk of money to be saved in the salary cap. The best thing is he will still get paid. He will get every single dime that was promised to him on his last contract and even more. Using TPBs numbers if you convert 7.5 million 2014 base salary to bonus and add .5 million plus give him an additional million in salary in 2014. that is an additional 1.5 million he makes. Plus he gets a check for quite a few million dollars right now and doesn't have to wait for it to be dished out as game checks. That's a lot of money to be able to invest immediately. Heck, with a sound investment it might net him an extra half a million.

Like I said before, the only way this doesn't work for Williams is if he thinks he can get his full 7.5 million this year and then sign a deal next year that gives him several more million dollars guaranteed. Lets use TPBs numbers of 1, 2 , 3, 5 million base and assume this would be OK with him. If he thinks he can get that and additional few million guaranteed he may very well pass on a restructure. I don't know what kind of contract a guy his age with his talent could expect to get after this season. He could expect next season.


As for your last paragraph I agree with that also. but the ability to do that hinges largely on what we look like under the 2015 cap and beyond as well.
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