play2win
12 years ago

There's only 1 person to blame for this whole sham.

The guy who had a chance to get rid of both Hawk and Jones, but instead decided to resign them.

THAT MAN OF COURSE IS TED THOMPSON!!!

Time for Hawk, Jones and Ted Thompson to move on!!!

Hell I'm sayin' it right now, Ted Thompson cost The Packers 2 more SB rings because he had to resign his boys.

The only reason The Packers lost in the playoff the last 2 years was because A. J. Hawk and Brad Jones were on the field!!!

TIME FOR TED THOMPSON TO GO!!!!!

Originally Posted by: buckeyepackfan 



I know these comments to be complete sarcasm, but when will you get off your AJ Hawk Buckeye Homer Man Love? It's really quite sickening.

buckeye, you make it so that no one can have a reasonable conversation with you about AJ Hawk with these kinds of statements. I wish that weren't so, because I think you have way more to offer these discussions as a fan of the Packers.

Hawk was good in the middle 3 seasons ago. He was horrible in pass coverage in 2011 and 2012. That makes him a liability with faster, more athletic TEs to defend. No?
Dexter_Sinister
12 years ago

Indeed. To correct him, we already - got - the wind knocked out of us. For two years running.

AJ Hawk and Brad Jones are less good and more bad for the middle of our defense.

Hawk has been absolutely abysmal in pass coverage, making his other good attributes in calling our D and making tackles nearly null and void.

Brad Jones -should- be good in pass coverage being 6-3, but he is anything but good. Add to that some lack of instincts in the middle, or should I say, as a linebacker, and I'm still in shock that this player received a contract. Brad Jones was drafted as an edge pass rusher. He offered little more.

Our only hope is Bishop returning to form, and the possibility of one of Manning, Boddington or Mulumba outperforming Hawk and Jones, favorites of this organization.

Originally Posted by: play2win 



The only problem with your only hope is that Bishop is horrible in pass coverage. He was MUCH worse than Hawk.

In 2011 the only one worse on the team was Williams. Who was playing with one arm.

The Packers allowed the 4th lowest passer rating in the league in 2012. It was an improvement over 2011.

With Bishop in, our D will be more vulnerable to the pass up the middle. Like when Bishop was getting lit up against the Chargers.

The only problem I see with Hawk is that people don't like him. So they want him to suck.
I want to go out like my Grandpa did. Peacefully in his sleep.
Not screaming in terror like his passengers.
play2win
12 years ago

The only problem with your only hope is that Bishop is horrible in pass coverage. He was MUCH worse than Hawk.

In 2011 the only one worse on the team was Williams. Who was playing with one arm.

The Packers allowed the 4th lowest passer rating in the league in 2012. It was an improvement over 2011.

With Bishop in, our D will be more vulnerable to the pass up the middle. Like when Bishop was getting lit up against the Chargers.

The only problem I see with Hawk is that people don't like him. So they want him to suck.

Originally Posted by: Dexter_Sinister 



I disagree with your last statement. I like him just fine. He is a sound tackler and seems a great team leader calling our D. But, you have to ask yourself if he's lost something in coverage when you look at the games and look at his stats. If you don't, how is that objective?

As for Bishop, he played coverage pretty well in 2010, as did Hawk. Neither offered much of anything in coverage in 2011.
Dexter_Sinister
12 years ago

I disagree with your last statement. I like him just fine. He is a sound tackler and seems a great team leader calling our D. But, you have to ask yourself if he's lost something in coverage when you look at the games and look at his stats. If you don't, how is that objective?

Originally Posted by: play2win 



His passing coverage stats are immensely better than Bishops were in 2011.

I wouldn't say Hawk is great in coverage, but he isn't bad.

He also has one big thing that Bishop doesn't.

Availability.
I want to go out like my Grandpa did. Peacefully in his sleep.
Not screaming in terror like his passengers.
beast
12 years ago


If the Packers had a great ILB... I'm not sure if the fans wouldn't still be complaining about the ILB.

Also I do wonder if it's more based on scheme than anything, that where the weak point of the scheme is and so where offenses target. And while the ILBers do deserve some of the blame, I wonder if when other guys (S or OLB) screw up, if fans don't just blame the ILBers because they're goat for excuses and fans always wanting the back-up to play.
UserPostedImage
play2win
12 years ago
Immensely better? Wow. Maybe you should look them up.

http://www.rotoworld.com/player/nfl/4403/desmond-bishop 

http://www.rotoworld.com/player/nfl/3629/aj-hawk 

Hardly.

In fairness, they both had good 2010 seasons in coverage. And they both suffered from zero pass rush from the DL since.

My concerns with both players is a loss of speed. Bishop won't be faster after tearing his Achilles, and Hawk won't be faster in his 9th season. I hope both can improve this year.
Dexter_Sinister
12 years ago

Immensely better? Wow. Maybe you should look them up.

http://www.rotoworld.com/player/nfl/4403/desmond-bishop 

http://www.rotoworld.com/player/nfl/3629/aj-hawk 

Hardly.

In fairness, they both had good 2010 seasons in coverage. And they both suffered from zero pass rush from the DL since.

My concerns with both players is a loss of speed. Bishop won't be faster after tearing his Achilles, and Hawk won't be faster in his 9th season. I hope both can improve this year.

Originally Posted by: play2win 



I forgot to put in "in 2011"

Hawk was a lot better than Bishop in 2011. In passer rating allowed.

Bishop has always been slow. His pro day he ran a 4.8 in the 40.
I want to go out like my Grandpa did. Peacefully in his sleep.
Not screaming in terror like his passengers.
DoddPower
12 years ago

The little I have seen or heard about Manning seems like he is kinda a soft finesse player - a less experienced Brad Jones.

Originally Posted by: texaspackerbacker 



You obviously haven't watched much of T. Manning in college. I always considered him more of a slower thumper type player. Big hitter. Kind of like a Desmond Bishop, honestly. That's not necessarily a bad thing either, but I wouldn't call him a "finesse" player. At least not in college.

play2win
12 years ago
Kind of interesting ranking of the top 10 inside LBs in the NFL from one year ago:

http://www.sportingnews.com/nfl/story/2012-05-28/nfl-rankings-linebackers-patrick-willis-ray-lewis-brian-urlacher-brian-cushing 

Hopefully Bish can come back strong this year.

I tried staying away from this topic, as the Hawk discussion always seems to break down into a bunch of rant and hate dialogue that usually ends in a divisive circular set of Hawk and Thompson cracks. Mostly negative reactionary statements.

If AJ Hawk hadn't been drafted #5 overall, the topic wouldn't carry so much weight. Like all players who rely on speed at their positions as a measure of success, Hawk is looking more and more to be playing on borrowed time. It happened to Woodson. It happened to Urlacher. It will happen to Hawk. That is not a knock against him, just the nature of the game.

As a fan, I am really hoping an improved DL helps both his play and Bishop's. It should. I'm also hopeful both players can come back faster, with more speed this season to stay with those receivers over the middle. That would be rare for that to actually happen. Youth at the position just may overtake one or both of these players this season.

I question whether or not we have the talent now to supplant either of Bishop or Hawk. We read a lot about what guys like Manning, Boddington, Mulumba et al have done in college, and know very little about how they will play at the NFL level.
buckeyepackfan
12 years ago

I know these comments to be complete sarcasm, but when will you get off your AJ Hawk Buckeye Homer Man Love? It's really quite sickening.

buckeye, you make it so that no one can have a reasonable conversation with you about AJ Hawk with these kinds of statements. I wish that weren't so, because I think you have way more to offer these discussions as a fan of the Packers.

Hawk was good in the middle 3 seasons ago. He was horrible in pass coverage in 2011 and 2012. That makes him a liability with faster, more athletic TEs to defend. No?

Originally Posted by: play2win 



You're completely wrong!!! No sarcasm here!!!

After 5years of hawk sucks, and 1 year of Jones is mediocre, I have been convinced.

Ted Thompson has really screwed the pooch, at the ILB position, costing The Packers who knows how many championships!!!

What's the old saying? Anyone can win 1!!!

It's becoming quite obvious that Ted Thompsons draft and develope phiosophy is not working!!!

It's becoming quite obvious that The Packers coaching staff gets outcoached in big games.

It has become quite obvious to me that changes need to be made, and need to be made NOW not later!!


!. Get rid of hawk and Jones NOW so their replacements have a whole pre-season to get ready

2.Serve notice to McCarthy and staff, enough is enough, get the job done, or get out of Green Bay.

3. Ted Thompson, quit wasting The Packers money on resigning inferior players, and get your shit together and start drafting players with talent, getting tired of all the 1st rnd busts!!!


3.
I was addicted to The Hokey Pokey, but I turned myself around!
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