musccy
12 years ago


D-line gets pushed around, ilb's are going to look bad because they can't get into position to make the plays.

Originally Posted by: buckeyepackfan 


This is what worries me. Raji has moments, but Pickett is going to be done soon, and the rest of our line depth chart is 4-3 DEs or stumpy underweight tackles. Jones and Walden proved to be a big liability, especially in this game, but with 3 lbs coming back next year I'm less worried about that position (sort of, maybe, I think?). I just don't know that this team has the athleticism, physicality, and beef in the front 3 that it needs to run an effective 3-4.
Rockmolder
12 years ago
How long ago was it that the Wildcat was going to take over the league and was the most unstoppable play ever seen by mankind? The thing Tebow would be perfect to run and change the way the NFL played offense?

We need to reload? We need better ILBs? We have to turn this whole defense around?....

There's no perfect team and the 49ers are no exception to that. Everyone's in quite the apocaliptic mood here. Every team has to improve every year. We drafted guys like Perry, Hayward, Worthy, Daniels, McMillian... These are all rookies. All guys who should progress from season one to two. Especially the pass rushers on that list.

We need better ILBs? How many teams are build deep enough to take two ILBs to injured reserve and still have that level of play from someone who's listed, and has only played, OLB?

There's enough talent being added. And we're certainly not over the hill on offense.

Was this a horrible showing? Yes. Have Capers defenses historically gone downhill and have they been figured out after his first two years as a DC? Yes. But we're not going to go 6-10 next year and we're not "rebuilding" or anything.

Having another body at nose tackle would be nice. Not having Walden on the field against an option passer would be nice. Having a new DC would be nice. We're not as far off as everyone here is making us out to be, though.
+1
Rockmolder
12 years ago

This is what worries me. Raji has moments, but Pickett is going to be done soon, and the rest of our line depth chart is 4-3 DEs or stumpy underweight tackles. Jones and Walden proved to be a big liability, especially in this game, but with 3 lbs coming back next year I'm less worried about that position (sort of, maybe, I think?). I just don't know that this team has the athleticism, physicality, and beef in the front 3 that it needs to run an effective 3-4.

Originally Posted by: musccy 



The only potential 4-3 DE we have on our team is Nick Perry. Maybe Walden of Moses.

If you're referring to Neal, Wilson and Daniels... They're UT tweeners. There are enough DCs, including Capers, who like to have some movability and pass rushing ability from their 3-4 DEs.

I know what you're getting at, though. And having seen how Peterson ran all over us, how we got run over yesterday... I'd like another big body, as well. Worthy was a step in the right direction, as far as body type goes.

Where will we find one, though? Guys like that are expensive and don't hit FA very often. Maybe draft a guy like Kawann Short?
Cal2GreenBay
12 years ago

How long ago was it that the Wildcat was going to take over the league and was the most unstoppable play ever seen by mankind? The thing Tebow would be perfect to run and change the way the NFL played offense?

We need to reload? We need better ILBs? We have to turn this whole defense around?....

There's no perfect team and the 49ers are no exception to that. Everyone's in quite the apocaliptic mood here. Every team has to improve every year. We drafted guys like Perry, Hayward, Worthy, Daniels, McMillian... These are all rookies. All guys who should progress from season one to two. Especially the pass rushers on that list.

We need better ILBs? How many teams are build deep enough to take two ILBs to injured reserve and still have that level of play from someone who's listed, and has only played, OLB?

There's enough talent being added. And we're certainly not over the hill on offense.

Was this a horrible showing? Yes. Have Capers defenses historically gone downhill and have they been figured out after his first two years as a DC? Yes. But we're not going to go 6-10 next year and we're not "rebuilding" or anything.

Having another body at nose tackle would be nice. Not having Walden on the field against an option passer would be nice. Having a new DC would be nice. We're not as far off as everyone here is making us out to be, though.

Originally Posted by: Rockmolder 



NFL dot com 

"...Woodson admitted a need to learn and adjust
forward because this mold of quarterback -- Kaepernick, Robert Griffin III, Cam Newton, Russell Wilson -- is here to stay..."

This is not a fad. The wildcat was about running backs who might be able to throw.
This is a new type of quarterback that is not going away.

You think we are not far off. I am saying we will always be almost there until we address how to stop this new dynamic quarterback in the NFL. Not apocalyptic. Being realistic.
blank
Cal2GreenBay
12 years ago
Another way to look at this, is that in the early 90s the niners were a finesse, pass happy team and could pretty much out score the rest of the league. Then along came the Dallas cowboys with Troy Aikman and that massive offensive line who kicked their ass for 3 straight years.
The niners had to draft Bryant young and beef up their dlineman to compete. High priced FAs followed.
The 49ers had to sell out 12 years of salary cap hell afterward but that is neither here nor there.

The point is, the packers are no longer top dogs and will not be able to beat a more physical team without some real changes.
The Giants messed us up pretty good and the niners as well.

Add to that a dynamic new style QB on top of their superior physicality and you can see we are not far off. But we are not going to best them without change or RELOAD.

Also people who thought Tebow was the revolution were smoking something, He was always a project and still is.

Kaepernick is a real pocket passer who can flat out run. There's a difference.
We need to change with the times or always remain second tier, from now on.
blank
Rockmolder
12 years ago

NFL dot com 

"...Woodson admitted a need to learn and adjust
forward because this mold of quarterback -- Kaepernick, Robert Griffin III, Cam Newton, Russell Wilson -- is here to stay..."

This is not a fad. The wildcat was about running backs who might be able to throw.
This is a new type of quarterback that is not going away.

You think we are not far off. I am saying we will always be almost there until we address how to stop this new dynamic quarterback in the NFL. Not apocalyptic. Being realistic.

Originally Posted by: Cal2GreenBay 



It's not going away. And neither is the Wildcat. Thing is, it won't be this effective for that long, either. Of course you need to adjust to this, but everyone's acting like it'd be impossible to remain competetive with our defense, because somehow we could never be able to stop this kind of offense.

The WCO couldn't be stopped, the run and shoot couldn't be stopped, the Wildcat couldn't be stopped and most of those offense could, at the very least, be slowed down eventually.

Having a mobile quarterback and an offense with some option elements is nice, but I don't know if it's the holy grail that everyone seems to think it is right now. Let's see what happens when teams starting to play a bit more contrain. Get these guys figured out a bit, just like defenses figured out Vick again after his amazing 2010 season in Philly.
K_Buz
12 years ago
I guess I don't understand this whole read-option fad. The wishbone isn't used as an offense because it is too easily defended in the NFL. What makes this different? We have had these types of QB's in the past as well...McNabb, McNair, Vick, Newton. They come in the league, have a impact first year and their running numbers decline. Then the hits start taking their toll and they realize that they have to become more pocket passers. NFL defenses will figure this out sooner rather than later.
musccy
12 years ago

It's not going away. And neither is the Wildcat. Thing is, it won't be this effective for that long, either. Of course you need to adjust to this, but everyone's acting like it'd be impossible to remain competetive with our defense, because somehow we could never be able to stop this kind of offense.

The WCO couldn't be stopped, the run and shoot couldn't be stopped, the Wildcat couldn't be stopped and most of those offense could, at the very least, be slowed down eventually.

Having a mobile quarterback and an offense with some option elements is nice, but I don't know if it's the holy grail that everyone seems to think it is right now. Let's see what happens when teams starting to play a bit more contrain. Get these guys figured out a bit, just like defenses figured out Vick again after his amazing 2010 season in Philly.

Originally Posted by: Rockmolder 



Although I agree with the basic premise, comparing vick to rg3, wilson, or kapernick isn't the same. Vick has never been accurate, and I feel like kapernick is closest to vick with respect to accuracy and he still gashed the living hell out of the Pack.

If you're accurate and fast as hell, you'll be hard to contend with no matter what.
Cal2GreenBay
12 years ago

It's not going away. And neither is the Wildcat. Thing is, it won't be this effective for that long, either. Of course you need to adjust to this, but everyone's acting like it'd be impossible to remain competetive with our defense, because somehow we could never be able to stop this kind of offense.

The WCO couldn't be stopped, the run and shoot couldn't be stopped, the Wildcat couldn't be stopped and most of those offense could, at the very least, be slowed down eventually.

Having a mobile quarterback and an offense with some option elements is nice, but I don't know if it's the holy grail that everyone seems to think it is right now. Let's see what happens when teams starting to play a bit more contrain. Get these guys figured out a bit, just like defenses figured out Vick again after his amazing 2010 season in Philly.

Originally Posted by: Rockmolder 



Vick is and was a horrible QB. Vick was supposed to be the guy to redefine the NFL position, but he was never a cerebral one. Watch Russell Wilson, Kaepernick and rg3. They are different than Vick and cleary more cerebral with almost as much athleticism.

The point is dual. Not just the new dynamic pocket passing QB, but the team was physically dominant against the packers like the cowboys were to the niners in the 90s.
We will always lose as a finesse team against a powerful line like that.

Gameplan against that all you want, but they will keep winning until this team gets stronger,
Woodson said that too,
blank
Rockmolder
12 years ago

Although I agree with the basic premise, comparing vick to rg3, wilson, or kapernick isn't the same. Vick has never been accurate, and I feel like kapernick is closest to vick with respect to accuracy and he still gashed the living hell out of the Pack.

If you're accurate and fast as hell, you'll be hard to contend with no matter what.

Originally Posted by: musccy 



Obviously, you're right.

I'm not trying to say that Vick = RG3/Wilsom. I'm trying to say that, defenses can figure this thing out.

Everyone knew that the 49ers were building quite the offensive line under Singletary and it's paying dividends now. And like I said, we need a big body player to complement our D-line.

It's just that, everyone's acting like this isn't stoppable. Like we're behind for having a QB who's not a 4.4 guy. QBs who can run and pass are not a fad, they're ridiculous weapons. The option, however, is a fad. And one that should get figured out sooner, rather than later.

Capers tried to do something by playing his psycho package which he hasn't used a whole lot throughout the season, but it didn't help. Players lost contain, the secondary didn't cover. It was just a mess.

I'm convinced, though, that a package that contrains two TEs, a FB, a RB and one WR is a package you can stop in this day and age. Especially when you manage to get a quick lead on the 49ers.
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