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Offline Zero2Cool  
#1 Posted : Saturday, November 1, 2008 7:46:19 PM(UTC)
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Quote:
[img_r]http://cmsimg.greenbaypressgazette.com/apps/pbcsi.dll/bilde?Site=U0&Date=20081101&Category=PKR07&ArtNo=81101055&Ref=AR&Profile=1058&MaxW=150&Border=0[/img_r]Simply put, 2006 was a bad year to have a prime pick in the first round of the NFL draft.

In many NFL drafts, selecting in the top 10 or even 15 gives a team its best shot at acquiring an elite player or at least a difference-maker. Its not easy, but the odds there are much better than anywhere else, including free agency.

But after 2 seasons, its apparent the pickins were slim indeed when the Green Bay Packers and their opponent Sunday, the Tennessee Titans, had the fifth and third picks, respectively, in the 06 draft.

Tennessee selected quarterback Vince Young, who after a promising start to his career has lost his starting job this season because of temperamental shortcomings. The Packers selected linebacker A.J. Hawk, a solid but not great player whose performance has slipped in 2008, presumably because of shoulder and groin injuries.

Most teams picking in the top half of that first round tell similar stories.

I thought there were maybe two or three players that were difference-makers and thats it, one NFL scout said. Usually theres eight to 12.

Ted Thompson, the Packers general manager, is not conceding that Hawk wont become an impact player, though the chances of that happening dont look promising nearly three years into Hawks career.

Hes been pretty good since he got here, Thompson said. Im not trying to debate you or anything, I just think hes a good player. He had a legitimate (groin) pull there that was keeping him from performing at a top level, and hes not going to complain about it. Im glad hes on our team.

But its hard to criticize Thompson for not finding an elite player with the highest-value pick hes had in his four drafts with the Packers. About the only player you can fault Thompson for not selecting instead of Hawk is defensive tackle Haloti Ngata, who went to Baltimore at No. 12 overall.

After consulting three NFL scouts who study college and pro players every year, its apparent the top half of the first round of the 06 draft had only four players considered anything close to impact performers: defensive end Mario Williams (No. 1 overall), halfback Reggie Bush (No. 2), quarterback Jay Cutler (No. 11) and Ngata (No. 12).

The first two were taken before Thompsons turn at No. 5, and the third, Cutler, played quarterback, a position Thompson addressed in the first round of the previous years draft when he selected Aaron Rodgers.

The top 15 picks in 06 rate similarly to 05, which also had four difference-maker-type players: halfback Ronnie Brown (No. 2), receiver Braylon Edwards (No. 3), defensive end DeMarcus Ware (No. 11) and linebacker Shawne Merriman (No. 12).

But both drafts are a disaster compared to 2004, which was flush with eight quality picks among the top 15 selections: quarterback Eli Manning (No. 1), receiver Larry Fitzgerald (No. 3), quarterback Philip Rivers (No. 4), safety Sean Taylor (No. 5), tight end Kellen Winslow Jr. (No. 6), quarterback Ben Roethlisberger (No. 11), receiver Lee Evans (No. 13) and defensive tackle Tommie Harris (No. 14).

There was at least an outside chance the Packers could have ended up with one of the impact players in 06 if the drama leading up to draft day had turned out differently. Houston had the No. 1 pick and opened contract talks with Bush and Williams the week before the draft. The Texans signed Williams the day before the draft, but if theyd gone with Bush instead, two of the scouts said New Orleans appeared ready to take Hawk at No. 2 overall. Tennessee still would have selected Young at No. 3, and the New York Jets probably still would have taken left tackle DBrickashaw Ferguson at No. 4.

That would have left Williams for the Packers at No. 5.

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Offline Rockmolder  
#2 Posted : Saturday, November 1, 2008 8:01:57 PM(UTC)
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Huh? I must be really biased towards our players or something, because I thought Hawk has been great so far, apart from maybe when he played with the injury. He might not be a Nitschke, but you can't possibly expect all your picks to turn out that way. He's a good LB, and has proven to me that he's worth the pick we spent on him.

I don't think Reggie Bush is Nr. 2 pick worthy tbh, I don't see how he's on the list of succeeded ones, and Hawk isn't. It's not like he's not doing anything, but so far he's been pretty much an expensive and slightly better Kevin Faulk.

To be honest, I haven't heared alot from Ngata. He might be doing well. There was no way that Mario Williams was gonna drop to us anyway, so we didn't even have the chance to pick him, you can rule that one out imo. Cutler, like the journalist said, is a QB, wich we didn't need. We took the right pick there if you ask me.

EDIT : Ok, re-read it abit better, looks like I missed the last segment. Ye, it would've been good if we could've gotten Williams, but at that point, we had a KGB who was playing as good as ever and Kampman on the other side. I don't think we really needed a DE.

So who would we have taken then? Huff? He hasn't done a thing. Vernon Davis? He's a huge underachiever. Or Ernie Sims instead of Hawk?... I still think we did the right thing, and this turned out good for us.
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Offline CaliforniaCheez  
#3 Posted : Saturday, November 1, 2008 8:18:34 PM(UTC)
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What is the writer's point??

He wants to find fault with Thompson but can't yet? Is he ignoring Hawks nagging injuries?

That was a good draft. Hawk, Colledge, Jennings, Spitz, and Jolly are all starters. 5 starters in a draft is very good.

Moll and Blackmon are still on the roster.

Only Cory Rodgers is out of the NFL. 7th rounder Dave Tollefson is solid in the rotation with the Giants. Ingle Martin is on the Chiefs roster. Tyrone Culver is active with the Dolphins. Abdul Hodge on the Bengals roster.

That is a good draft!!

Hawk isn't a Pro Bowl player Boo Hoo. Not a good premise for an article.
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Offline Zero2Cool  
#4 Posted : Saturday, November 1, 2008 8:20:15 PM(UTC)
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I think he was more so gauging the top picks of '06 including ours.

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Offline dhazer  
#5 Posted : Saturday, November 1, 2008 8:43:58 PM(UTC)
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Thats the one year Ted Thompson didn't draft like his usual self. He didn't draft best available player. To me the best player in that draft was Cutler, ya ya i know we had Rodgers from the year before but big deal i mean cmon we are becoming the detroit lions with all the wrs we draft. Hawk hasn't played up to a top 5 pick in my opinion, hes an average lb no where near the likes of urlacher or briggs. Well i hope next year is different in tired of the average players we get with our 1st picks. Also next years draft is going to be a very deep draft. As far as the one post that said 5 starters from one draft is good well duh he got rid of all the other players he didnt draft who is going to start lol, he dosen't do anything in the free agent market.

But all in all the writer is right it was a very weak draft.
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Offline beast  
#6 Posted : Saturday, November 1, 2008 9:15:45 PM(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: " Go to Quoted Post
To be honest, I haven't heared alot from Ngata. He might be doing well.


He's a DL in a 3-4 (which you usually don't hear about 3-4 DL unless there making noise off the field, they're horrible or great).

I think he would make a pretty good DT in a 4-3.


Originally Posted by: " Go to Quoted Post
So who would we have taken then? Huff? He hasn't done a thing. Vernon Davis? He's a huge underachiever. Or Ernie Sims instead of Hawk?... I still think we did the right thing, and this turned out good for us.


Haloti Ngata

There is Antonio Cromartie, but I think Cromartie is over rated because the Chargers at least did have a good pass rush. Don't get me wrong, I think Cromartie is very talented in what he can do, just think his cover skills are over rated.

Their were a couple of good MLB but I don't think Barnett wanted to move to OLB and the MLB were taken in the first four picks in the second round.

Greg Jennings would of been worth a top 5 :grin:

Maurice Jones-Drew isn't bad could be better if he got the chance to start.
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Offline beast  
#7 Posted : Saturday, November 1, 2008 9:23:39 PM(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: " Go to Quoted Post
i mean cmon we are becoming the detroit lions with all the wrs we draft.


No were not. Our top pick WRs are still in the NFL after 3 years. (Other than one career injury which can't be control)

Originally Posted by: " Go to Quoted Post
Hawk hasn't played up to a top 5 pick in my opinion


he's played better than the other guys picked in the first round after him other than maybe one. Also add in the system isn't made for big plays. Hawk has been great in the system. How many other OLB his size can play in the nickel defense? Heck the team doesn't even run dime anymore because of him and Barnett.

Originally Posted by: " Go to Quoted Post
hes an average lb no where near the likes of urlacher or briggs.


That's completely not true. Unless your talking about hype alone.
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Offline Rockmolder  
#8 Posted : Saturday, November 1, 2008 9:25:42 PM(UTC)
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I guess I can agree on that Ngata pick. Haven't heared alot from him, but ye, a DT would've been nice. But like said before, Ted Thompson didn't draft the best player availabe, he drafted on what we needed at that time. Plus, AJ Hawk was considered the safest pick of the top 10.

Cromartie wasn't put down as a top 10 pick if I recall correctly, hence he was drafted 19th. Both Greg Jennings obviously weren't even close to a top 5 pick, as you stated yourself.

It's all pretty easy talking now though, 2,5 years after that draft.
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Offline porky88  
#9 Posted : Saturday, November 1, 2008 9:55:50 PM(UTC)
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This draft has been outstanding for the Packers. Hawk, Jennings, Colledge, and Spitz have all been starters since their rookie year. Blackmon and Jolly have contributed too with Jolly being a starter now.

Yes, Hawk might not be a Pro Bowl player right now. I think he will be some day, but I admit it's taking longer than expected, but Greg Jennings is. That more than makes up for Hawk being you know a solid starter instead of the Pro Bowler. So we got the Pro Bowler or soon to be Pro Bowler in round 2 instead of round 1.

I've always been one to look at an entire draft than just one pick. If you looked at Ron Wolf's first rounds only, you'd think he was a bad GM. Rounds 2-7, gives you a different story.

Simply put, the Packers 2006 draft has been great so far.
Offline dhazer  
#10 Posted : Saturday, November 1, 2008 11:14:51 PM(UTC)
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[quote="beast"]
Originally Posted by: " Go to Quoted Post
i mean cmon we are becoming the detroit lions with all the wrs we draft.


No were not. Our top pick WRs are still in the NFL after 3 years. (Other than one career injury which can't be control)


Originally Posted by: " Go to Quoted Post
Hawk hasn't played up to a top 5 pick in my opinion


he's played better than the other guys picked in the first round after him other than maybe one. Also add in the system isn't made for big plays. Hawk has been great in the system. How many other OLB his size can play in the nickel defense? Heck the team doesn't even run dime anymore because of him and Barnett.

Originally Posted by: " Go to Quoted Post
hes an average lb no where near the likes of urlacher or briggs.


That's completely not true. Unless your talking about hype alone.



I just checked Ted Thompson has drafted 8 wrs since 2005 including 2 last year even though many on here said we had the best wr corp. so 2 me thats 2 wasted picks.

people forget Jay Cutler was in the 2006 draft he could have been in green bay
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Offline beast  
#11 Posted : Sunday, November 2, 2008 6:28:20 AM(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: " Go to Quoted Post
I just checked Ted Thompson has drafted 8 wrs since 2005 including 2 last year even though many on here said we had the best wr corp. so 2 me thats 2 wasted picks.

people forget Jay Cutler was in the 2006 draft he could have been in green bay



Name a GM that hasn't wasted picks and you have found the hands down best GM ever in any sport or any time maybe any world.

I don't forget but why would any team take two 1st round QBs back to back years?

Heck according to the Colts GM the reason Rodgers fell so far was because of the cost it would of taken to sign a 1st round QB. No body wanted to pay it at that time.

I did think Cutler was the best QB before the draft and he seems to be now. (he's the only one of the top starting)

I was calling for the Packers to draft Trent Edwards. He was ether being sacked because a horrible horrible OL or making plays and he was always fighting to make a plsy even with a DL on him.
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Offline buckeyepackfan  
#12 Posted : Sunday, November 2, 2008 10:28:33 AM(UTC)
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Dhazer....without you on this forum there would be about half the posts that are here.

I respect your opinion on most things, laugh quite a bit when the obvious confrontations take place.

I am not a big fan of TT, but he hasn't been all bad. I have yet seen a post from you saying Ted Thompson made a good move, there has to be one somewhere you agreed on.

Now back to the subject, I usually don't come out and disagree with you, but your are completely wrong about AJ Hawk.

The guy is what Packer Footbal is all about. What did he do as soon as he was drafted?, he moved to Green Bay, married his fiance and became part of the community.

Until this year he has never missed playing time, and I do believe has been 1st or 2nd in tackles his first two years, if not he has been in the top 5.
When he had the groin injury, the first report was that it was feared he was going to miss the rest of the season, but there he was playing the very next week.

Now he has been slowed the last two weeks, but is now said to be recovered. Let's see if he shows up against TN., my bet is that he will.

I have watched AJ Hawk since he was a freshman at OSU.

All he is is A FOOTBALL PLAYER, some seem to think a player doesn't arrive until they have made the Pro Bowl, IMHO that has become a popularity contest, mostly media driven.(see last years roster, 7-8 Vikings, 10 cowboys, or was it more?)

Now you can state your opinion all you want, but when you are completley wrong about a player, like you are about AJ Hawk, I cannot let it go without a response.

Carry on dhazer......your jaded point of view is a breath of fresh air, at times, on this forum. :icon_smile: :icon_smile: :icon_smile:
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Offline dhazer  
#13 Posted : Sunday, November 2, 2008 11:36:17 AM(UTC)
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Ok i will give you one good move Ted Thompson has done. (picks up the phone to call 911 for alot of posters) Ted Thompson moved Brett out of green bay. yes i said that lol. I don't think we were superbowl contenders even if Brett was here this year and this way we struggle this year without alot of high expectations ( ok its just me that don't have them) and this way The Kid can try and prove himself. Omfg People are going to die I praised Ted Thompson and the kid in one post. But in all hindsight that was probably his best move and if it turns out we fail for a few years in a row it will be his head. But noone knows the future so who knows. This way another teams fans can learn and watch the legend in Brett and if he gets them to the playoffs he should be praised. I don't like how Ted Thompson drafts look at his last 3 #1 picks they are all injured oh wait one is coming back. Now with that guy gone to NY maybe Ted Thompson will change his strategy and go after FA and how he drafts.
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Offline buckeyepackfan  
#14 Posted : Sunday, November 2, 2008 11:43:22 AM(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: " Go to Quoted Post
Ok i will give you one good move Ted Thompson has done. (picks up the phone to call 911 for alot of posters) Ted Thompson moved Brett out of green bay. yes i said that lol. I don't think we were superbowl contenders even if Brett was here this year and this way we struggle this year without alot of high expectations ( ok its just me that don't have them) and this way The Kid can try and prove himself. Omfg People are going to die I praised Ted Thompson and the kid in one post. But in all hindsight that was probably his best move and if it turns out we fail for a few years in a row it will be his head. But noone knows the future so who knows. This way another teams fans can learn and watch the legend in Brett and if he gets them to the playoffs he should be praised. I don't like how Ted Thompson drafts look at his last 3 #1 picks they are all injured oh wait one is coming back. Now with that guy gone to NY maybe Ted Thompson will change his strategy and go after FA and how he drafts.


Very good. :icon_smile:
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Offline Zero2Cool  
#15 Posted : Sunday, November 2, 2008 12:46:47 PM(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: " Go to Quoted Post
Ok i will give you one good move Ted Thompson has done. (picks up the phone to call 911 for alot of posters) Ted Thompson moved Brett out of green bay. yes i said that lol. I don't think we were superbowl contenders even if Brett was here this year and this way we struggle this year without alot of high expectations ( ok its just me that don't have them) and this way The Kid can try and prove himself. Omfg People are going to die I praised Ted Thompson and the kid in one post. But in all hindsight that was probably his best move and if it turns out we fail for a few years in a row it will be his head. But noone knows the future so who knows. This way another teams fans can learn and watch the legend in Brett and if he gets them to the playoffs he should be praised. I don't like how Ted Thompson drafts look at his last 3 #1 picks they are all injured oh wait one is coming back. Now with that guy gone to NY maybe Ted Thompson will change his strategy and go after FA and how he drafts.


I disagree. I think the Packers were Super Bowl contenders with Brett and are less likely contenders with Aaron Rodgers.

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