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Offline play2win  
#16 Posted : Saturday, March 16, 2013 12:33:28 AM(UTC)
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I've seen a lot of backs run in this game through my lifetime. I don't know when I have ever seen so much talent so terribly misused. Count me in the camp where play calling and poor coaching seem more the root cause of our rushing woes.

Despite that, we still improved last season, with major injuries decimating both the line and the RBs. I think that is a testament to the talent, as they were handled, coached all by the same crew, calling the same kinds of plays.

Yeah, the blocking seemed horrific, but a lot of that was poor coaching, even worse play calling, and poor play by Saturday.

Games where we gave up on the run we lost. Games where we committed to it we generally won. That makes our problems seem more a coaching issue.

I think our RBs are good. I think we may have more talent than we may realize on the OL. Reports were Datko was first round talent had he not injured hi shoulder.

A mauler C could be some big medicine in this draft.

Edited by user Saturday, March 16, 2013 6:17:04 AM(UTC)  | Reason: Not specified

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yooperfan on 3/16/2013(UTC)
Offline Nonstopdrivel  
#17 Posted : Saturday, March 16, 2013 3:12:35 AM(UTC)
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I am firmly in the camp that that the Packers' offensive line is undertalented and that no running back -- not even Steven Jackson -- would look great behind it. I would far rather see Ted Thompson waste draft picks on offensive linemen until he finds someone who can manage to stay healthy before worrying about the running back. If this team rolls into camp with nothing more than Bryan Bulaga, Derek Sherrod (who reporters say is still limping), Marshall Newhouse, and Don Barclay at the tackle positions, I say Thompson is gambling with his job security.

That being said, the more I watch film (huzzah for NFL Game Rewind!), the more I am convinced that a lot of the offensive line woes we are seeing leaguewide are a product of the offensive schemes themselves. Basically, offensive linemen are simply being asked to do too much with the modern high-flying aerial attacks and the bodies in the trenches haven't adapted yet. I don't think it's a coincidence that a lot of the top offensive line prospects this year look more like oversized tight ends than traditional porkbellies, and indeed, many of them are converted tight ends. I think that is the wave of the future in the short term.

On the other hand, I also believe that the trend of pass-heavy offenses like the Packers, Patriots, Lions, and Saints is slowly peaking and may already be starting to reverse. Back in the late 1990s and early 2000s, certain coaches like Bill Belichick and a little later, Mike McCarthy, realized that they had maximized the potential of the running game, which had not improved in efficiency in decades. They realized that the only way to increase offensive output was to mine the untapped riches of the passing game, and that is what they did. (I am ignoring recent rule changes here, since the schematic changes preceded the rule changes.) The coaches who jumped on this bandwagon the earliest benefited the most. Coaches who have tried to scramble on recently, like Mike Tice, have discovered that the wave is already passing them by.

Ever the visionary, Belichick realizes that the tide is turning and he is getting ahead of it. He has made some noticeable changes to his offensive scheme lately. Coaches like Jim Harbaugh and Pete Carroll have been even bolder. McCarthy has been slower to adapt this time around, and it's hurting the team. He is hardheaded and perhaps a bit idealistic. Year after year he trots out the same basic scheme and won't adjust until Aaron Rodgers is punch drunk around Week 10 or so. Then he begrudgingly makes changes and suddenly Rodgers is able to stay upright again.

Until the Packers make some needed schematic changes, the line is going to look worse than it probably is. It's overstressed and overtaxed. Rodgers also doesn't do it any favors with his insistence on looking for the deep man instead of the dumpoff at the marker. McCarthy needs to find a way to flood the middle lanes with receivers; it was ridiculous how many games the middle of the field was entirely empty with all eligible receivers along the sidelines.

When the offense can more consistently convert on third downs, a running back may start to look more effective.
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thanks Post received 3 applause.
yooperfan on 3/16/2013(UTC), PackFanWithTwins on 3/16/2013(UTC), nerdmann on 3/16/2013(UTC)
Offline Nonstopdrivel  
#18 Posted : Saturday, March 16, 2013 3:13:16 AM(UTC)
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By the way, here is a fun trivia question:

With respect to his own peers, who had statistically the greatest rushing season of all time?
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Offline JustinAVA182  
#19 Posted : Saturday, March 16, 2013 3:27:47 AM(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: Nonstopdrivel Go to Quoted Post
By the way, here is a fun trivia question:

With respect to his own peers, who had statistically the greatest rushing season of all time?


OJ? Think
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Offline JustinAVA182  
#20 Posted : Saturday, March 16, 2013 3:31:30 AM(UTC)
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NO! nvm I change my answer!! Bo Jackson tecmo bowl hands down.
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Offline Nonstopdrivel  
#21 Posted : Saturday, March 16, 2013 3:33:03 AM(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: JustinAVA182 Go to Quoted Post
OJ? Think


Not even close.
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Offline texaspackerbacker  
#22 Posted : Saturday, March 16, 2013 7:07:33 AM(UTC)
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I'm fairly sure the Packers are not gonna draft either a center or RB, not before the 5th or 6th round anyway. The O Line will be OK with what we have. Great college centers often don't do great in the NFL. The big keys are Sherrod coming in healthy and playing like a first round pick and Bulaga getting over whatever his problem was even before his season-ending injury. If that happens, Harris, Green, maybe Starks, and maybe even Grant will look pretty good. Yeah, maybe Saine too.
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Offline play2win  
#23 Posted : Saturday, March 16, 2013 8:34:18 AM(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: texaspackerbacker Go to Quoted Post
I'm fairly sure the Packers are not gonna draft either a center or RB, not before the 5th or 6th round anyway. The O Line will be OK with what we have. Great college centers often don't do great in the NFL. The big keys are Sherrod coming in healthy and playing like a first round pick and Bulaga getting over whatever his problem was even before his season-ending injury. If that happens, Harris, Green, maybe Starks, and maybe even Grant will look pretty good. Yeah, maybe Saine too.


I agree with the general sense of this. I don't know that we have to pin our hopes on Sherrod though, and don't really think we should. He sounds like a Flanagan long shot to return healthy enough to contribute. What was that? Like, a 4 or 5 year window with him?

However, I do think Newhouse could show improvement this year, and I have a sense Andrew Datko may be a player in all of this. He was first round talent with a bum shoulder when we drafted him the end of the 2012 draft. He's had a full year to recover and train at a pro level. This may prove to have been an awesome selection by Ted after all is said and done.

I think we'll draft a C. I think we have to, and I wouldn't mind if they nab one of the best of the draft in the first 3 rounds.
Offline macbob  
#24 Posted : Saturday, March 16, 2013 9:32:12 AM(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: Nonstopdrivel Go to Quoted Post
By the way, here is a fun trivia question:

With respect to his own peers, who had statistically the greatest rushing season of all time?


What criteria are you using?

If rushing yards; OJ, 1973 had 2003 yards; 2nd was Green Bay's John Brockington, with 1144, a difference of over 800 yards. No one else was even close to creating that kind of differential.

NOTE: 1973 was a 14 game season, not the current 16 game season.

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Offline Nonstopdrivel  
#25 Posted : Sunday, March 17, 2013 12:19:04 PM(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: macbob Go to Quoted Post
What criteria are you using?


Rushing efficiency, as opposed to cumulative statistics. I haven't glanced at the numbers, but I am guessing Simpson had a lot more reps than Brockington.
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Offline macbob  
#26 Posted : Monday, March 18, 2013 5:18:46 PM(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: Nonstopdrivel Go to Quoted Post
Rushing efficiency, as opposed to cumulative statistics. I haven't glanced at the numbers, but I am guessing Simpson had a lot more reps than Brockington.


Strange. I posted a response yesterday, but now it's no longer in the thread. Not sure what happened to it.

Anyway, in 1973 OJ rushed 332 times for 2003 yards, and John Brockington rushed 265 times for 1144 yards, a difference of 67 carries for 889 yards (12.8 yards per carry).

So, I'm curious on how you are defining rushing efficiency and also curious as to who you say the answer to your trivia question is, if it's not OJ.
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Offline texaspackerbacker  
#27 Posted : Monday, March 18, 2013 5:39:20 PM(UTC)
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A wild guess: Bobby Douglass, the Bear QB, not the Packer LB. Perhaps you mean his "peers" were QBs. He rushed for 988 yards in 1972 - a 14 game season.
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Offline macbob  
#28 Posted : Monday, March 18, 2013 6:03:12 PM(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: texaspackerbacker Go to Quoted Post
A wild guess: Bobby Douglass, the Bear QB, not the Packer LB. Perhaps you mean his "peers" were QBs. He rushed for 988 yards in 1972 - a 14 game season.


lol...then how about William "Refrigerator" Perry, with two rushing TDs in 1985? I don't think any other DL had any that year...

Bobby Douglass' numbers (968?) are impressive, but Vick ran for more yards (1039) on fewer carries in 2006.
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Offline macbob  
#29 Posted : Tuesday, March 19, 2013 6:06:50 AM(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: Nonstopdrivel Go to Quoted Post
Rushing efficiency, as opposed to cumulative statistics. I haven't glanced at the numbers, but I am guessing Simpson had a lot more reps than Brockington.


Am I correct in my assumption that you're working on a CRBR (Complete Running Back Rating) similar to the CQBR you posted earlier?
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