Welcome to your Green Bay Packers Online Community!

Since 2006, PackersHome has been providing a unique experience for fans.
Your participation is greatly anticipated!
Login or Register.
5 Pages<12345>
Options
View
Go to last post Go to first unread
Offline Gravedigga  
#31 Posted : Sunday, July 5, 2009 4:21:15 AM(UTC)
Gravedigga

Rank: Fresh Cheesehead

Posts: 945
Joined: 8/16/2008(UTC)


Originally Posted by: " Go to Quoted Post
This is all I have to say about this issue.

Before the first George Bush imposed economic sanctions on Iraq, the number one epidemiological problem in Iraq was obesity. By the time we invaded Iraq the second time, the number one epidemiological problem in Iraq was starvation. Estimates range as high as 600,000 children starved to death as a direct result of the sanctions.

I've read estimates that Saddam Hussein's thugs killed as many as 35,000 to 50,000 Iraqis in the 35+ years they were in power. Sounds like a lot at first glance.

Until you consider the fact that in a mere six years since we invaded, legions more Iraqis have died (estimates range widely, from the tens of thousands to the hundreds of thousands). Thousands of doctors, lawyers, engineers, university professors, scientists, and religious leaders have been slaughtered or forced to flee. The brain drain has been frightful. Hospitals remain in critical condition. Water purification systems remain in shambles. Much of the country still doesn't have power for more than a few hours a day. The highways, formerly some of the best in the Middle East, are a wreck.

And that doesn't even count the thousands of troops we've lost over there.

We often forget that Iraq was formerly a liberal secular state. Now it's swiftly becoming, for all practical purposes, a fundamentalist Islamic theocracy. Between my first and second deployments I was shocked at the level of deterioration I saw. Before we invaded Iraq, a woman could walk the streets of Baghdad alone in blue jeans without fear. Now she must walk around in full hijaab with a male escort to avoid being targeted by Islamic fundamentalists.

So I ask you: Who really unleashed terror in Iraq?

Whether in ousting Saddam Hussein we did what had to be done is a matter for debate, but to say we are leaving Iraq a better place is just laughable. Saddam Hussein may have been an evil man, but he understood intuitively something we can't seem to figure out: The country of Iraq is an unnatural entity that can only be held together through sheer threat of force. The Iraqis are not an individualistic culture like ours; they are a collectivist tribal culture. They don't want democracy; they never have; and they probably never will. So why don't we just let them have the kind of government they want and solve our own mounting problems at home?



wow, +1 for that
--------------------------------------------
UserPostedImage


A wise man once said
---------------------------------------------
You are weak, pathetic and immature..............I would have d
Offline Formo  
#32 Posted : Sunday, July 5, 2009 11:47:04 AM(UTC)
Formo

Rank: All Pro

Posts: 5,555
Joined: 8/12/2008(UTC)

Applause Given: 215
Applause Received: 152

Originally Posted by: " Go to Quoted Post
So please tell me the plan to make sure there is NEVER a repeat of Hussein. There is no plan. Because that would be impossible. And if that is the reason we are still over there, then we will be there forever.

And I like how you guys always try to turn this into democrat vs republicans. Its impossible to discuss politics with anyone, because no one can ever be objective. I once asked a friend who he was voting for and he said "John Kerry" After asking him why, he simply said, "Because I'm a democrat."

I always found it amuzing how people who have no official ties to either party, decide that they are either one or the other, and will vote that way no matter what. And whenever something goes wrong, its always the OTHER parties fault.


I'm sorry.

I must have missed the memo where I'm not supposed to vote for the guy who stands closer to my opinions/values.

I totally misfired on that one.. =/
UserPostedImage
Thanks to TheViking88 for the sig!!
Offline Rockmolder  
#33 Posted : Sunday, July 5, 2009 11:51:28 AM(UTC)
Rockmolder

Rank: Super Bowl MVP

FleaFlicker Fantasy Football - Bronze: 2010

Netherlands
Posts: 6,359
Joined: 9/14/2008(UTC)

Applause Given: 147
Applause Received: 237

Originally Posted by: " Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: " Go to Quoted Post
So please tell me the plan to make sure there is NEVER a repeat of Hussein. There is no plan. Because that would be impossible. And if that is the reason we are still over there, then we will be there forever.

And I like how you guys always try to turn this into democrat vs republicans. Its impossible to discuss politics with anyone, because no one can ever be objective. I once asked a friend who he was voting for and he said "John Kerry" After asking him why, he simply said, "Because I'm a democrat."

I always found it amuzing how people who have no official ties to either party, decide that they are either one or the other, and will vote that way no matter what. And whenever something goes wrong, its always the OTHER parties fault.


I'm sorry.

I must have missed the memo where I'm not supposed to vote for the guy who stands closer to my opinions/values.

I totally misfired on that one.. =/


The point is, you should. People shouldn't get tied up to one party, just because they liked what one guy said. I mean, republicans from 50 years ago look nothing like republicans from now, yet, the republicans will still receive votes from that same person, most likely his entire life long. It's all based on pretty much nothing.

I find it funny that everyone votes republican and democrat every single time, though? Are there no other parties who stand closer to the values of the people over there? It's usually a 3-way tie with quite a few smaller parties over here. Not saying that that is better, just wondering.
UserPostedImage
Offline Formo  
#34 Posted : Sunday, July 5, 2009 12:01:16 PM(UTC)
Formo

Rank: All Pro

Posts: 5,555
Joined: 8/12/2008(UTC)

Applause Given: 215
Applause Received: 152

Originally Posted by: " Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: " Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: " Go to Quoted Post
So please tell me the plan to make sure there is NEVER a repeat of Hussein. There is no plan. Because that would be impossible. And if that is the reason we are still over there, then we will be there forever.

And I like how you guys always try to turn this into democrat vs republicans. Its impossible to discuss politics with anyone, because no one can ever be objective. I once asked a friend who he was voting for and he said "John Kerry" After asking him why, he simply said, "Because I'm a democrat."

I always found it amuzing how people who have no official ties to either party, decide that they are either one or the other, and will vote that way no matter what. And whenever something goes wrong, its always the OTHER parties fault.


I'm sorry.

I must have missed the memo where I'm not supposed to vote for the guy who stands closer to my opinions/values.

I totally misfired on that one.. =/


The point is, you should. People shouldn't get tied up to one party, just because they liked what one guy said. I mean, republicans from 50 years ago look nothing like republicans from now, yet, the republicans will still receive votes from that same person, most likely his entire life long. It's all based on pretty much nothing.

I find it funny that everyone votes republican and democrat every single time, though? Are there no other parties who stand closer to the values of the people over there? It's usually a 3-way tie with quite a few smaller parties over here. Not saying that that is better, just wondering.


I vote for whomever I vote for because his/her values match up with my own more so than the other guy/gal. Nothing more, and nothing less. Most of the time, it's Repubs.

The reason it's mostly either Repubs vs. Demos is because those are the two main parties. Yes, there are Indies, among others.. But for one reason or another (I'm guessing it's a combination of many reasons) it tends to swing to either the Red party or the Blue one.

NOTE: This past Presidential election was the first I've ever voted for a President. The last one (Kerry vs. Bush) I was a completely different person, and wanted nothing to do with voting. Don't ask, long story.. lol
UserPostedImage
Thanks to TheViking88 for the sig!!
Offline djcubez  
#35 Posted : Sunday, July 5, 2009 2:13:26 PM(UTC)
djcubez

Rank: 2nd Round Draft Pick

Posts: 1,750
Joined: 8/7/2008(UTC)
Location: Milwaukee

Applause Given: 8
Applause Received: 13

Originally Posted by: " Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: " Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: " Go to Quoted Post
So please tell me the plan to make sure there is NEVER a repeat of Hussein. There is no plan. Because that would be impossible. And if that is the reason we are still over there, then we will be there forever.

And I like how you guys always try to turn this into democrat vs republicans. Its impossible to discuss politics with anyone, because no one can ever be objective. I once asked a friend who he was voting for and he said "John Kerry" After asking him why, he simply said, "Because I'm a democrat."

I always found it amuzing how people who have no official ties to either party, decide that they are either one or the other, and will vote that way no matter what. And whenever something goes wrong, its always the OTHER parties fault.


I'm sorry.

I must have missed the memo where I'm not supposed to vote for the guy who stands closer to my opinions/values.

I totally misfired on that one.. =/


The point is, you should. People shouldn't get tied up to one party, just because they liked what one guy said. I mean, republicans from 50 years ago look nothing like republicans from now, yet, the republicans will still receive votes from that same person, most likely his entire life long. It's all based on pretty much nothing.

I find it funny that everyone votes republican and democrat every single time, though? Are there no other parties who stand closer to the values of the people over there? It's usually a 3-way tie with quite a few smaller parties over here. Not saying that that is better, just wondering.


I'll tell you why. In the 2000 election I knew someone who voted for Nader because he matched up the most with his political views. We got George W. Bush that day. He says to this day even though he feels good about voting for Nader, he should have used his vote on Gore because Nader was never gonna win in the first place. There's too much money tied to both Republicans and Democrats for independants to be elected.
Check out my music webpage - Click Here
Offline 4PackGirl  
#36 Posted : Sunday, July 5, 2009 3:23:54 PM(UTC)
4PackGirl

Rank: 1st Round Draft Pick

Posts: 2,252
Joined: 12/17/2006(UTC)
Location: illinois

Applause Given2: 150
Applause Received: 122

Originally Posted by: " Go to Quoted Post
This is all I have to say about this issue.

Before the first George Bush imposed economic sanctions on Iraq, the number one epidemiological problem in Iraq was obesity. By the time we invaded Iraq the second time, the number one epidemiological problem in Iraq was starvation. Estimates range as high as 600,000 children starved to death as a direct result of the sanctions.

I've read estimates that Saddam Hussein's thugs killed as many as 35,000 to 50,000 Iraqis in the 35+ years they were in power. Sounds like a lot at first glance.

Until you consider the fact that in a mere six years since we invaded, legions more Iraqis have died (estimates range widely, from the tens of thousands to the hundreds of thousands). Thousands of doctors, lawyers, engineers, university professors, scientists, and religious leaders have been slaughtered or forced to flee. The brain drain has been frightful. Hospitals remain in critical condition. Water purification systems remain in shambles. Much of the country still doesn't have power for more than a few hours a day. The highways, formerly some of the best in the Middle East, are a wreck.

And that doesn't even count the thousands of troops we've lost over there.

We often forget that Iraq was formerly a liberal secular state. Now it's swiftly becoming, for all practical purposes, a fundamentalist Islamic theocracy. Between my first and second deployments I was shocked at the level of deterioration I saw. Before we invaded Iraq, a woman could walk the streets of Baghdad alone in blue jeans without fear. Now she must walk around in full hijaab with a male escort to avoid being targeted by Islamic fundamentalists.

So I ask you: Who really unleashed terror in Iraq?

Whether in ousting Saddam Hussein we did what had to be done is a matter for debate, but to say we are leaving Iraq a better place is just laughable. Saddam Hussein may have been an evil man, but he understood intuitively something we can't seem to figure out: The country of Iraq is an unnatural entity that can only be held together through sheer threat of force. The Iraqis are not an individualistic culture like ours; they are a collectivist tribal culture. They don't want democracy; they never have; and they probably never will. So why don't we just let them have the kind of government they want and solve our own mounting problems at home?


these words were written by someone who has actually BEEN there, with no political motivation, no money lining his pockets, no nothing...just the honest truth. i trust these words far & above any politician.
UserPostedImage
Offline MassPackersFan  
#37 Posted : Sunday, July 5, 2009 4:21:43 PM(UTC)
MassPackersFan

Rank: 1st Round Draft Pick

Posts: 2,923
Joined: 9/16/2007(UTC)

Applause Given: 1
Applause Received: 7

I have a lot of respect for anyone serving. My sister is in Afghanistan right now (coming home in 2 days!). I have even more respect, on an entirely different level, for those who serve with their eyes as open as nonstops's are. Duty and honor do not require ignorance.
UserPostedImage
Offline Cheesey  
#38 Posted : Sunday, July 5, 2009 4:43:01 PM(UTC)
Cheesey

Rank: Most Valuable Player

Posts: 8,552
Joined: 7/28/2008(UTC)

Applause Given: 159
Applause Received: 326

I have a friend that was over there that told a completely different story. He told me how every day he had Iraqie people come up to him and thank him for being part of the group that got rid of Saddam. Truth is, if you didn't bow down to Saddam, your life was a living hell. You didn't DARE to oppose him. Look at the city he wiped out of his OWN PEOPLE for just that reason.
Saddam's inner circle had ALL the money, while "his" people suffered. Thats factual.
UserPostedImage
Offline Nonstopdrivel  
#39 Posted : Sunday, July 5, 2009 4:44:39 PM(UTC)
Nonstopdrivel

Rank: Hall of Famer

United States
Posts: 11,689
Joined: 9/14/2008(UTC)
Location: Germany

Applause Given: 364
Applause Received: 263

Originally Posted by: " Go to Quoted Post
There's too much money tied to both Republicans and Democrats for independants to be elected.


It's this precise attitude that dooms the campaigns of independents time after time. If the public at large would stop assuming third-party candidates don't have a chance and start voting for them, they would have a chance. Abraham Lincoln was for all practical purposes a third-party candidate, though the Whig Party had actually suffered its fatal stroke in the previous election. It was just on life support by the time Lincoln ran as a Republican.

But if the Republican Party could win the presidency in only its second election, there's no reason why another party could not rise today -- if Americans would give it a fighting chance.
UserPostedImage
Offline Cheesey  
#40 Posted : Sunday, July 5, 2009 5:00:37 PM(UTC)
Cheesey

Rank: Most Valuable Player

Posts: 8,552
Joined: 7/28/2008(UTC)

Applause Given: 159
Applause Received: 326

Thats the problem. The two "big wig" parties can afford millions of dollars to campaign, where an independant has no way to get their message out. In the "old days" there wasn't millions of dollars, TV, radio, all the high priced ways of getting your word out. If you can't afford that now, you have NO chance to win. An independant had pretty much an equal chance back then, as it wasn't driven by who had the deepest pockets. It was alot more level playing field. That doesn't exist today.
UserPostedImage
Offline Rockmolder  
#41 Posted : Sunday, July 5, 2009 6:00:06 PM(UTC)
Rockmolder

Rank: Super Bowl MVP

FleaFlicker Fantasy Football - Bronze: 2010

Netherlands
Posts: 6,359
Joined: 9/14/2008(UTC)

Applause Given: 147
Applause Received: 237

It still amazes me how election campaigns over there run through commercial networks and one big media circus. It appears to be more of a political circus and publicity tour than having good points for the most part.

I mean, you can try to give these small parties a fighting chance, but that has to start with the media, I'm afraid. (Again, I applogize for the patriotism in my post) We have these debates between 8 political parties, ranging from Christian Conservatives, to the Labor Party, to an extremely right-wing Freedom Party. Even a nearly communistic one. It all runs through television channels owned by the state. Every party gets the same amount of time on the air and in no way are parties favored over one another.

Thing is, if the media will keep it down to two parties and if the elections keep being based on who has the biggest cheque and who can give the best show, the small parties will never have a fighting chance. And I don't think they will anytime soon.
UserPostedImage
Offline Zero2Cool  
#42 Posted : Sunday, July 5, 2009 7:27:15 PM(UTC)
Zero2Cool

Rank: Legend

Yahoo! Fantasy Football - Gold: 2009FleaFlicker Fantasy Football - Silver: 2010Yahoo! NCAA March Madness - Silver: 2011ESPN NCAA March Madness - Bronze: 2010Yahoo! NCAA March Madness - Bronze: 2013

United States
Posts: 25,614
Joined: 10/13/2006(UTC)
Location: Green Bay, WI

Applause Given: 1,832
Applause Received: 1,978

Please let us not take this thread too far off the original post, please?

UserPostedImage
Click here and find the LATEST Packers News!
Offline zombieslayer  
#43 Posted : Monday, July 6, 2009 4:30:54 PM(UTC)
zombieslayer

Rank: Most Valuable Player

Posts: 9,919
Joined: 8/7/2008(UTC)
Location: San Francisco

Applause Given: 778
Applause Received: 495

Well, I see we've steered a little bit from the original post, but after reading the original post, I kind of want to nuke England for what they did to our Founding Fathers.
My man Donald Driver
UserPostedImage

(thanks to Pack93z for the pic)

2010 will be seen as the beginning of the new Packers dynasty. Ted Thompson Mike McCarthy Aaron Rodgers
Offline Pack93z  
#44 Posted : Monday, July 6, 2009 5:13:42 PM(UTC)
Pack93z

Rank: Hall of Famer

PackersHome NFL Pick'em - Bronze: 2012

United States
Posts: 12,736
Joined: 3/16/2007(UTC)
Location: North Central Wisconsin

Applause Given: 380
Applause Received: 1,017

Freedom is never free.. and how quickly some forget.

Caught up with a childhood friend this weekend.. he is on leave currently.. knew he joined the corps after high school.. I guess I didn't know he was still pulling his fatigues on.

Anyway.. we got to speaking about life and the past 20 years... a couple hours and many beers later he started talking about his last 3 tours over there.. you forget how many wounds unseen our brothers and sisters carry around. Some forget the price they pay to keep our freedom in tact..

Every crooked silver spooned asshole, every non God fearing jackass that commits a senseless crime, every money grabbing politician outta spend a couple hours having a real conversation with a grunt that has done a couple of stints at ground zero.. if that doesn't change their damn tune there is no hope for their soul.. None.

Every time I start to lose faith in the human race in general, someone walks into my life for a spell and gives me hope again. I can honestly say I would give up my right leg to keep men and women of his ilk safe in harm's way..


For Those Who Fought For It, Freedom Has A Flavor The Protected Will Never Know
I think when there's enough will and aggression, there's no shortage of talent either.

UserPostedImage
Offline dfosterf  
#45 Posted : Monday, July 6, 2009 5:40:04 PM(UTC)
dfosterf

Rank: All Pro

United States
Posts: 5,868
Joined: 8/19/2008(UTC)

Applause Given: 168
Applause Received: 365

Originally Posted by: " Go to Quoted Post
Well, I see we've steered a little bit from the original post, but after reading the original post, I kind of want to nuke England for what they did to our Founding Fathers.


Ya, let's nuke England !


I forget what beef (if any) I have with England, but I say light 'em if you got 'em...


(See 4th of July thread for further explanation)


:cheers:

PLUS...

We go ahead and go thermonuclear on our buds...

It will cut WAY BACK on the b.s. U.S. pin-cushion European smack-talk, not to mention the middle eastern despot/U.N. crap we've been taking all these years...

I'm just sayin'


LOL
UserPostedImage
damn skippy I'm an owner. I currently own a full .00001924537805515393 % of the Green Bay Packers.



Rss Feed 
Users browsing this topic
Guest
5 Pages<12345>
Forum Jump  
You cannot post new topics in this forum.
You cannot reply to topics in this forum.
You cannot delete your posts in this forum.
You cannot edit your posts in this forum.
You cannot create polls in this forum.
You cannot vote in polls in this forum.

Notification

Icon
Error



Recent Topics
9h / Random Babble / DakotaT

10h / Green Bay Packers Talk / dfosterf

12h / Green Bay Packers Talk / DakotaT

14h / Green Bay Packers Talk / musccy

18h / Fantasy Sports Talk / Zero2Cool

20h / Green Bay Packers Talk / Wade

22h / Green Bay Packers Talk / Dulak

22h / Green Bay Packers Talk / Mucky Tundra

22-Jul / Green Bay Packers Talk / beast

22-Jul / Random Babble / dhazer

22-Jul / Green Bay Packers Talk / Tezzy

21-Jul / Around The NFL / musccy

21-Jul / Green Bay Packers Talk / beast

21-Jul / Random Babble / wpr

20-Jul / Green Bay Packers Talk / beast


Tweeter

Copyright © 2006-2014 PackersHome.com™. All Rights Reserved.