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Offline Pack93z  
#16 Posted : Wednesday, July 24, 2013 8:09:52 AM(UTC)
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The only thing that bothers me yet is that it hasn't been exposed exactly what he is guilty of... IE.. give us the proof to formulate our own opinions on what really transpired here.

Based simply on the events.. it absolutely appears that Braun has been nothing more than a fraud.. but it may just be me, but I want the details of the events.. how far back does the evidence trail go. Whom knew what and when.

I hated the fact that the NFL buried the Spygate information.. and I will be equally disappointed if the facts here are not released. Transparency from the sports is needed more in these cases..
I think when there's enough will and aggression, there's no shortage of talent either.

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Offline dhpackr  
#17 Posted : Wednesday, July 24, 2013 8:24:02 AM(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: Pack93z Go to Quoted Post
The only thing that bothers me yet is that it hasn't been exposed exactly what he is guilty of... IE.. give us the proof to formulate our own opinions on what really transpired here.

Based simply on the events.. it absolutely appears that Braun has been nothing more than a fraud.. but it may just be me, but I want the details of the events.. how far back does the evidence trail go. Whom knew what and when.

I hated the fact that the NFL buried the Spygate information.. and I will be equally disappointed if the facts here are not released. Transparency from the sports is needed more in these cases..


I know Braun tested positive for elevated testosterone. He was tested when Milw. made the playoffs in 2011. It is mandatory to test players when they make the playoffs.

That test came back positive and he was suspended in the winter of 2012 b/f spring training. That was overturned b/c the sample was not 'handled correctly".

which also adds to my disgust in Braun. If you remember, he then attacked the integrity of the guy who handled the sample to protect his lies.

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Offline wpr  
#18 Posted : Wednesday, July 24, 2013 8:41:10 AM(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: dhpackr Go to Quoted Post
geez, well that sucks! I wish this happened b/f Prince left. We could have kept him instead. The thing that really sucks is that whole run to the NLCS is tainted. I hope they strip him of the MVP and give it to Kemp.

Our best season in 25 years is shot b/c he cheated. Not only that, he was so arrogant in his lies!

I can't boo a Brewer, but when he comes to bat, we as fans, can give him the silent treatment and not cheer him on.



I can not imagine they will take his mvp away. If they do they should take away the Bonds HR record and McGwire's too. Then who do you give it to? Sosa did it too.

It would not hurt my feelings if everyone who was caught had 0-0-0 behind their name for their whole baseball career. The problem becomes a bigger issue. What about the guys in the 70- 80's who took speed. Did that help them? I am sure it did. The 162 game season is such a grind. If they felt "up" in Aug and Sept while others were dragging their butts it is easy to say they had illegal help getting their hits or their strikeouts.
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Offline wpr  
#19 Posted : Wednesday, July 24, 2013 8:44:14 AM(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: dhpackr Go to Quoted Post
I know Braun tested positive for elevated testosterone. He was tested when Milw. made the playoffs in 2011. It is mandatory to test players when they make the playoffs.

That test came back positive and he was suspended in the winter of 2012 b/f spring training. That was overturned b/c the sample was not 'handled correctly".

which also adds to my disgust in Braun. If you remember, he then attacked the integrity of the guy who handled the sample to protect his lies.



It wasn't just testosterone. It was synthetic testosterone. And it was way above reasonable limits. I forget exactly the amount but I thought it was 500% above. It is used to mask the PED.

pack93, I guess it doesn't matter what the details are. Braun is not contesting them so he is basically admitting he is guilty.
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Offline Pack93z  
#20 Posted : Wednesday, July 24, 2013 8:54:55 AM(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: wpr Go to Quoted Post


pack93, I guess it doesn't matter what the details are. Braun is not contesting them so he is basically admitting he is guilty.


To me it does... why.. because if he carried out his statements last spring training with full knowledge that he was guilty all along, my opinion is 65 games is not enough. He didn't just say that he was innocent, he openly and defiantly challenged the integrity of others openly, the testing process and the game itself.

I see no reason that MLB doesn't release their findings in this.. let the facts present themselves. Asked for no less from day one.. and MLB has said that is what they were doing with this investigation. Well then.. present them so we the direct and indirect fund source of the game to know the facts.

In such a public game in which we openly talk about their contracts, events in the ball players lives.. then why not show us the ugly side of the game. How the cheats cheated... or what exactly what they are guilty of.

Could it also prove not to be as damning to Braun.. possibly but doubtful. But the next time I see him play ball in Miller Park.. I certainly want to know the facts of his guilt.
I think when there's enough will and aggression, there's no shortage of talent either.

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Offline Pack93z  
#21 Posted : Wednesday, July 24, 2013 9:11:19 AM(UTC)
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Of course.. "Sources"... I am tired of nameless sources.. MLB.. if you want to minimize the damages.. then truly get out in front of this and release the documents and announce the rest of the suspensions.. otherwise the jokers in the media are going to continue with the nameless "sources".


JSOnline wrote:
ESPN's T.J. Quinn has tweeted that "sources tell OTL (Outside the Lines) Braun relationship with Bosch began in summer '11 months before testing positive. RB was on PED regimen for high-end clients."

Quinn, of course, is referring to Brewers leftfielder Ryan Braun and former Biogenesis clinic operator Tony Bosch, who apparently provided overwhelming evidence to Major League Baseball that Braun bought performance-enhancing drugs from him.

Faced with that evidence, Braun on Monday accepted a season-ending suspension that covered the final 65 games of the season. That announcement came with a vague apology by Braun acknowledging he made "mistakes" but did not mention PED use.

So, OTL's sources tell them that Braun began his relationship with Bosch in the summer of 2011. It was in October of that year, at the start of the playoffs, that Braun tested positive for elevated levels of synthetic testosterone. He had that drug test overturned on appeal on a chain-of-custody issue that MLB considered a technicality.

While stopping short of saying the evidence showed Braun bought synthetic testosterone from Bosch, Quinn supplied a copy of a Biogenesis document that he says sources indicate was written by Bosch for "PEDs for clients like Braun and A-Rod." A-Rod, of course, is New York Yankees third baseman Alex Rodriguez. And the specific PEDs referred to here are testosterone troches.

Testosterone troches are lozenges that you can place under your tongue to induce synthetic testosterone into your system. The document produced by OTL goes to the detail of saying they were "mint or cherry-flavored."

Troches are but one way to elevate your testosterone levels without receiving an injection. You can also apply synthetic testosterone topically with creams and gels applied to your skin. With these methods, the synthetic testosterone can cycle in and out of your body quickly, meaning a drug test likely would have to be taken very soon to be detected.



Oh by the way.. on Rodgers being tied into this.. just more fodder for the media to toy with... albeit it seems that Rodgers misjudged the word of his friend.
I think when there's enough will and aggression, there's no shortage of talent either.

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Offline wpr  
#22 Posted : Wednesday, July 24, 2013 9:11:27 AM(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: Pack93z Go to Quoted Post
To me it does... why.. because if he carried out his statements last spring training with full knowledge that he was guilty all along, my opinion is 65 games is not enough. He didn't just say that he was innocent, he openly and defiantly challenged the integrity of others openly, the testing process and the game itself.

I see no reason that MLB doesn't release their findings in this.. let the facts present themselves. Asked for no less from day one.. and MLB has said that is what they were doing with this investigation. Well then.. present them so we the direct and indirect fund source of the game to know the facts.

In such a public game in which we openly talk about their contracts, events in the ball players lives.. then why not show us the ugly side of the game. How the cheats cheated... or what exactly what they are guilty of.

Could it also prove not to be as damning to Braun.. possibly but doubtful. But the next time I see him play ball in Miller Park.. I certainly want to know the facts of his guilt.


I understand. In this country we tend to expect our judicial system to be opaque.

I think MLB was set to give him more than 65 games but the legal hassle would have drawn it out longer so they opted for a plea bargain arraignment. He does 65 games and drops his defense. They don't bust him for more.

A 1 1/2 suspension or even a lifetime ban would not help the Brewers at all other than to recover some of the money they have tied up.
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Offline Pack93z  
#23 Posted : Wednesday, July 24, 2013 9:19:16 AM(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: wpr Go to Quoted Post
I understand. In this country we tend to expect our judicial system to be opaque.

I think MLB was set to give him more than 65 games but the legal hassle would have drawn it out longer so they opted for a plea bargain arraignment. He does 65 games and drops his defense. They don't bust him for more.

A 1 1/2 suspension or even a lifetime ban would not help the Brewers at all other than to recover some of the money they have tied up.


Not worried about the Brewers overall.. I am really only concerned with Braun. Personally, I would have to believe there are more athletes bending the allowed rules verse not. Just with the attitude Braun displayed after the overturned appeal while possibly knowing he was dirty... that there is even worse than Clemens, Mcgwire and Palmeiro denials.

Basically.. he has a lot more statements of apology to go to right the mistakes.. at bear minimum. First is the tester he basically ran over.. and that should be publicly as well as privately. Then we should be talking about financial considerations in damages.

But again.. let us see those documents and proof so we can make those judgments for ourselves and stop having to read the drivel from the likes of ESPN and unnamed sources.
I think when there's enough will and aggression, there's no shortage of talent either.

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Offline texaspackerbacker  
#24 Posted : Wednesday, July 24, 2013 9:58:38 AM(UTC)
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What I've seen no mention of, and it kinda bothers me, is that there were at least 20, I've heard as many as 32 names implicated, some apparently with stronger evidence for doing worse things than Braun - Alex Rodriguez at the top of that list. But for some odd reason, maybe the fact that he is from a small market instead of New York City or whatever, he gets the penalty. Now I will allow for the possibility that they are just taking their time to get around to all of them, but they better NOT just leave it as is.

The other thing that seems pretty shitty is so many people piling on to Braun. I suppose not all Packer fans are automatically Brewer fans too, but come on! He is one of our own; He is paying the price for some kind of wrongdoing; Yeah, it's relatively light NOT COMPARED TO OTHER PEOPLE, but compared to what it might have been - THAT'S A GOOD THING for Brewer fans; for Wisconsin sports fans in general.

Also, there seems to be an automatic assumption that the thing he was not punished for last season is the thing he is now being punished for - and therefore he lied. Maybe ....... but if innocent until proven guilty applies basically half the sports world and a good share of the rest of the world - a lot of pretty bad people who go unpunished or get off lightly by accepting a deal for less when the evidence is shaky, then why is OUR star player thrown under the bus?

I say again, let him serve his time in peace, and then come back and finish out a great career in Milwaukee - and be damn thankful he isn't just another elitist asshole who feels the need to skip out to the east coast or west coast or where the hell ever.
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Offline dhpackr  
#25 Posted : Wednesday, July 24, 2013 10:01:13 AM(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: Pack93z Go to Quoted Post
Just with the attitude Braun displayed after the overturned appeal while possibly knowing he was dirty... that there is even worse than Clemens, Mcgwire and Palmeiro denials.

Basically.. he has a lot more statements of apology to go to right the mistakes.. at bear minimum. First is the tester he basically ran over.. and that should be publicly as well as privately. Then we should be talking about financial considerations in damages.

But again.. let us see those documents and proof so we can make those judgments for ourselves and stop having to read the drivel from the likes of ESPN and unnamed sources.


I hate to have to write it, but your concerns happened. He knew he was dirty, won a weak appeal, then made some f'd up statements concerning how his piss was handled.

You're right, the guy he blamed for handling his urine, should sue Braun in court.

Just keep in mind also, you want to see documents for a failed drug test. Think about that for a moment....

To me, this is a person's medical records...Can that be made public? Not sure that is possible.

So if you meet me Have some courtesy, Have some sympathy, and some taste
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Offline Pack93z  
#26 Posted : Wednesday, July 24, 2013 10:14:04 AM(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: dhpackr Go to Quoted Post


Just keep in mind also, you want to see documents for a failed drug test. Think about that for a moment....

To me, this is a person's medical records...Can that be made public? Not sure that is possible.



No I don't want to see the results of a failed drug test.. that has been made public already, although it should not have been made public prior to the appeal. I agree there.

What I want to see is the proof they obtained from the Biogensis investigation.. what exactly was uncovered there as it pertains to Ryan Braun. If he was a client from the middle of 2011 like "reported" or was it prior to that. Did they have records of deliveries to Braun. The slam dunk I want to see is that they sent him PED's, have a UPS/Delivery record of it.

At that point.. Braun has no more rope whatsoever. I want the I's dotted and the T's crossed.. and at that point, I will share your complete and utter disgust for the man. Sorry if I don't trust MLB completely.. all I want to see is the complete and unbiased truth of fact. Not opinion or unnamed source.

Additionally.. if all this is true.. then MLB should never have offered up a positive statement that Braun "accepted" his guilt. No... no he didn't until he had no choice. Basically the union made it clear.. if you are guilty, they will not defend you.. by the way, it is about time the union took that stance. Hopefully more unions do the same.
I think when there's enough will and aggression, there's no shortage of talent either.

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Offline Zero2Cool  
#27 Posted : Thursday, July 25, 2013 5:38:16 AM(UTC)
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Ryan Braun claims that if we knew the truth, we'd understand. Why not just tell everyone the truth? Is the truth more embarrassing than being called a cheater, or worse, a liar? I'm of the belief that sports should use PED's to help with injuries and do so with proper education. PED's are a GOOD thing when used in moderation. That's the dark cloud no one wants to see through. It can help you recover from injury quicker and more effectively. So did Ryan bruise his vagina and use PED's to repair a tear?

I can't think of anything I'd rather be labeled as that are worse than a cheater or liar.

Braun's 2012 numbers prove 2011 wasn't some PED inflated season.

As for this topic ... Braun definitely owes Rodgers an explanation of some kind.

Aaron Rodgers tweets
  • MLB and cable sports tried to sully the reputation of an innocent man. Picked the wrong guy to mess with. Truth will set u free #exonerated

  • When its guilty until proven innocent, all u need are the facts. #howsthecrowmlb

  • I'll let my buddy take it from here. All u idiots talking about technicality open up for some crow too.

  • ...let the people hear the truth. Should get interesting. #exonerated #shhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh



I also believe Ryan Braun winning his appeal really pissed the MLB off and look no further into the wording of his suspension. 15 games for appealing the positive test? MLB hasn't specifically stated what Braun did wrong either. It's like someone being thrown in jail for "break the law". I also wouldn't be surprised of Rodgers tweets and how strong they were, and coming from the NFL MVP and recent Super Bowl MVP that the "egg on face" MLB felt was quite thick.

You remember the arbitrator in the Braun appeal? MLB fires longtime arbitrator Shyam Das, a post he'd held since 1999.


The more facts I read about this, the more it feels like Braun grew tired of the whole ordeal and didn't want his family, friends or teammates to be distracted by the whole 'will he or won't he' saga.

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Offline Pack93z  
#28 Posted : Thursday, July 25, 2013 7:24:53 AM(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: Zero2Cool Go to Quoted Post


The more facts I read about this, the more it feels like Braun grew tired of the whole ordeal and didn't want his family, friends or teammates to be distracted by the whole 'will he or won't he' saga.



This is precisely why I want the facts laid out for the public.. to end any gray area to the issue. Let us the fans, the ultimate driving force of the game, to actually know the truth.. fully. And then let us decide how to cheer, boo or disown him.

Just lay it out there.. and end it.

I also realize, as apparently the press cannot, is that Braun, MLB, and the players association might be withholding this information until all players have been dealt with in the Biogenesis issue has been dealt with.

I will be extremely disappointed if they don't release it full in the end.
I think when there's enough will and aggression, there's no shortage of talent either.

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Offline wpr  
#29 Posted : Thursday, July 25, 2013 7:34:57 AM(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: Pack93z Go to Quoted Post
This is precisely why I want the facts laid out for the public.. to end any gray area to the issue. Let us the fans, the ultimate driving force of the game, to actually know the truth.. fully. And then let us decide how to cheer, boo or disown him.

Just lay it out there.. and end it.

I also realize, as apparently the press cannot, is that Braun, MLB, and the players association might be withholding this information until all players have been dealt with in the Biogenesis issue has been dealt with.

I will be extremely disappointed if they don't release it full in the end.


I have been wondering if the Freedom of Information Act would apply at all. I decided it did not.
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Offline Pack93z  
#30 Posted : Thursday, July 25, 2013 11:15:34 AM(UTC)
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I think when there's enough will and aggression, there's no shortage of talent either.

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