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Poll Question : Both statements are false. But which is a *worse* error?
Choice Votes Statistics
  "All terrorists are Muslims."
3
50 %
  "All Muslims are terrorists."
3
50 %
  Total 6 100%
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Offline texaspackerbacker  
#31 Posted : Friday, May 31, 2013 4:53:31 AM(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: wpr Go to Quoted Post
As do people from every single religion.



Every organized use of arms is a political solution. Almost never does one army move without the consent or the approval of their leadership. (Both national and religious leaders) Even when the use of arms springs up from the masses (Like French and Russian Revolutions) it is still politically based.

How can the French, English or Italians “take back” that which they never possessed previously? Jesus does not look for mankind to enforce by force of arms.

John 18:36
Jesus answered, My kingdom is not of this world: if my kingdom were of this world, then would my servants fight, that I should not be delivered to the Jews: but now is my kingdom not from hence.




The Crusades like all wars had atrocities committed on both sides. The Europeans were particularly cruel at times. I do not approve of their actions. See John 18:36 above.



Everyone is responsible for their actions. I doubt the percent of Muslim males in the West is any higher than it is for others who participate in these actives. I was actually speaking about these items as they make their way into THEIR countries. But they do not like it where ever it may be found. Based on your argument does this mean you are for it?



Never did I say I excuse them or anyone for any action. I simply pointed out a few of the reasons they hate Westerners.



I do not defend any of their anti-Semitic actions. Actually Semitic is a misnomer. It means “Son of Shem”. Nearly the entire region is a decedent of Shem. I merely stated that no matter what the problem is, they blame Israel.



When it comes to religious beliefs I am probably more conservative than you are. Women should have long hair and not wear pants. Men should have moderately short hair. Neither should dress provocatively. I do not wear shorts in public. My shirts have sleeves. I do not drink or smoke. I try to not curse (Although this site has pushed me to the limits at times.) or take the Lord’s name in vain. We use to worship 3 times a week. As our congregation grew older we have changed it to twice a week. I think most if not all organized religion is manmade and does not serve the Lord. I do not believe in a Trinity.



See above I do not support their actions. I simply pointed out where their hate comes from.



The West set their colonies free not because they were kind. They did so only when they had to. It became too difficult to maintain any of these empires by force of arms.



My old minister once said something I found profound. Hell was not created for man. It was created for Lucifer and his fallen angels. Only a small number of men will end up in hell. He is our advocate and died for all of our sins. If there is ANY redeemable attribute in ANY person he will find a way to exonerate them. His blood is THAT precious.



I have no guilt in any of my statements. Then or now. I went back and corrected how I posted Wade’s comments. My last comment was that it is not wrong for people to be more observant than they were in the past. It doesn’t matter what the color of the skin of the people around them.


First Point, yeah there are bad acts committed by members of every religion, nation, etc. BUT, this thread started as being about Quantitative Analysis, and quantitatively as well as qualitatively, no other group is even close to Muslims when it comes to acts of mass murder and support for the actual doers.

Point Two, OK, if you define political that broadly. I wouldn't, but whatever. Perhaps I should have said the JUDEO-Christian world taking back the Holy Land. Regardless, it was a matter of religion v. religion and a matter of good v. evil - despite the fact that the forces of good resorted to some of the same barbarous tactics as the evil doers. It was the Middle Ages, after all hahahaha. Part of the point is that Muslims are still in that mindset and behavior. Yeah yeah yeah, I'm sure you can cite examples where Christians or other westerners are that way too, but not on nearly the same magnitude. It is really irksome that the infestation of political correctness in our schools, etc. these days has transformed/brainwashed a lot of fairly normal people - not really hard core leftists (I'm talking about you, for one, Pack93) to the point where they can no longer identify evil as evil in a historical context like the Crusades, not to mention right down to the news each day. Speaking of which (I guess this is how threads get off topic, but I just can't help commenting on what I see as wrongheaded), you would put the Soviet takeover of Russia in the category of revolutions "springing up from the masses"? Maybe if you see the end of it as that very very short-lived interim government, but the ultimate result was exactly as Lenin scripted it - pure evil taking over.

Religion: I am very intrigued by a lot of your comments. First, on the negative side, the Bible verse you cite several times is way out of context and not at all pertinent to the events you use it to criticize. Jesus was merely telling His disciples to let it happen without a fight - His being taken by Roman soldiers, also that His mission the first time around was not world domination at that time. I'm not saying King Richard and the other European royals who marched into the middle east were commanded by God to do so (I'm also not saying they were not hahaha). I'm just saying the verse you cite has nothing to do with that situation or for that matter, anything in modern warfare. Good v. Evil can be a religious thing, but not automatically. Some evil and evildoers are just self-evidently evil. Your own code of morality and religious practice as well as citing of "semitic" meaning descendants of Shem, and including Arabs, Turks, etc. leads me to wonder exactly what group you are a part of. Could it be the Worldwide Church of God which I have never actually joined but am in great agreement with?

Back to politics, yeah, the colonial powers didn't exactly set the colonies free out of altruism. Finding them hard to maintain? yeah I suppose, although only a small bit of aid and encouragement in that direction by America would have kept the western world firmly in charge, and arguably, the populations of those colonial regions would have been MUCH better off over the last half century or so, not to mention possibly a much more peaceful world. Of course, all of that was in the context of the Cold War, and it would have taken some serious propagandizing for good to prevent those colonial populations from being dragged into Communism - but I think it could have been done. Oh well, water over the dam.

Perhaps the most significant point: You SAY you don't support or defend or make excuses for the actions and mass mindset of the damn Muslims, but ........ there is a very fine line between citing "reasons" why they hate us that smack of moral equivalence and excuses. I say again, I would have expected that from leftists and this sadly brainwashed younger generation of PCers, but you are generally older and wiser - and politically more conservative in most contexts. Good Normal Americans simply know in their heart and mind that modern day Muslims are the enemy of all that is good in the world/are purveyors and supporters of evil, terror, and mass murder against innocents as well as against their own kind. Some are afraid to express that obvious concept because of political correctness and the pressure brought on them by its adherents, but you? I would have expected better.
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Online wpr  
#32 Posted : Friday, May 31, 2013 5:25:05 AM(UTC)
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No I am not a member of Worldwide Church of God. I attend an independent nondenominational pentecostal full gospel church.

I got the definition for Semitic out of the dictionary.

wiki

Quote:
Semitic people
In linguistics and ethnology, Semitic (from the Biblical "Shem", Hebrew: שם‎, translated as "name", Arabic: ساميّ‎) was first used to refer to a language family of largely Middle Eastern origin, now called the Semitic languages. This family includes the ancient and modern forms of Ahlamu, Akkadian (Assyrian-Babylonian), Amharic, Amorite, Arabic, Aramaic/Syriac, Canaanite/Phoenician/Carthaginian, Chaldean, Eblaite, Edomite, Ge'ez, Hebrew, Maltese, Mandaic, Moabite, Sutean, Tigre and Tigrinya, and Ugaritic, among others.


Quote:
Origin

The term Semite means a member of any of various ancient and modern Semitic-speaking peoples originating in the Near East, including; Akkadians (Assyrians and Babylonians), Eblaites, Ugarites, Canaanites, Phoenicians (including Carthaginians), Hebrews (Israelites, Judeans and Samaritans), Ahlamu, Arameans, Chaldeans, Amorites, Moabites, Edomites, Hyksos, Ishmaelites, Nabateans, Maganites, Shebans, Sutu, Ubarites, Dilmunites, Bahranis, Maltese, Mandaeans, Sabians, Syriacs, Mhallami, Amalekites, Arabs, Sabians, Syriacs, Palmyrans and Qedarites.


merriam-webster


Quote:
1
: of, relating to, or constituting a subfamily of the Afro-Asiatic language family that includes Hebrew, Aramaic, Arabic, and Amharic



free dictionary.com has many similar entries. American Heritage is almost the same as Merrian Webster.

here is the entry for Random House:
Quote:
(Linguistics / Languages) a branch or subfamily of the Afro-Asiatic family of languages that includes Arabic, Hebrew, Aramaic, Amharic, and such ancient languages as Akkadian and Phoenician
adj
1. (Linguistics / Languages) denoting, relating to, or belonging to this group of languages
2. (Social Science / Peoples) denoting, belonging to, or characteristic of any of the peoples speaking a Semitic language, esp the Jews or the Arabs
"You don't hurt 'em if you don't hit 'em." Chesty Puller



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Offline dfosterf  
#33 Posted : Friday, May 31, 2013 12:00:01 PM(UTC)
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Wayne, I know how you roll, and your input has me thinking. All good.

That said, I do not like religions and various assorted belief systems. They are killing my Marines, and I'm damn tired of it.

Edited by user Friday, May 31, 2013 12:42:26 PM(UTC)  | Reason: Not specified

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damn skippy I'm an owner. I currently own a full .00001924537805515393 % of the Green Bay Packers.



thanks Post received 1 applause.
DoddPower on 5/31/2013(UTC)
Online wpr  
#34 Posted : Friday, May 31, 2013 12:47:33 PM(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: dfosterf Go to Quoted Post
Wayne, I know how you roll, and your input has me thinking. All good.



I am honored.

I know the Mid East is messed up. I realize "we" want to attach American ideals to every solution and more times than not our solutions don't fit/work throughout most of the world but we bang away with a hammer trying to make it fit.

It doesn't shock me that an Israeli takes a shot at you in the morning and buys you a beer that night. (not that he did buy you a drink. just that it is that messed up.)

My son being Army doesn't always have kind words for Marines I am certain the feeling is more than reciprocated. I like the idea of having a little competitiveness between the branches. That said I am extremely glad you "stood on that wall" for all of us. "We wanted you on that wall. We needed you on that wall." You are correct when you say that as a nation we typically give lip service to our fighting forces past and present on 2 days a year.

Cool experience for me this past Monday. (Memorial Day.) My wife and I stopped at an Illinois Tollway Oasis for a break. After I came out of the john I saw her down the way at the coffee shop. I saw the portraits of a lot of young men (more like pencil drawings) so I stopped to look at them. I thought these young men deserved the time it would take to look at them all. There were several hundred. When I noticed someone was from my small county I took this picture. That night I posted them on facebook.

After I had been there for a while I noticed a man a little older than myself. A little more casually dressed than I was. A full bread that had not been trimmed in a while. Biker style shirt, jacket and jeans. He had a black bandana on with the MIA logo. I decided he was a Nam Vet. I keep looking at the faces and names. The vet and I came into close proximity a few times. I was waiting for him to say something. When we got to the back of the exhibit I decided I had to say something to him.
I asked, "Were you in the service?"
He said, "I don't want to talk about it." It was all he would say to me.
I replied, "OK. I understand."
I moved away. Then I got to thinking. I had a couple of things to say whether he wanted to talk about it or not. And I wasn't going to let him chase me away. I walked back over and said,
"The reason I asked was my son told me when he came back from being overseas that it was the Viet Nam Vets that were the kindest and most supportive to him. So I am telling you 'thank you' on behalf of my son." And I turn and walked away.

All I could think of was there is no reason this man should have to carry his bitterness around for 30-40 years. I don't care if we give $100 billion to Pakistan or Egypt or even Bolivia. Every single Administration from Wilson until today has failed to do what needs to be done for our service men and women both while active duty or when they come back into the private sector.
"You don't hurt 'em if you don't hit 'em." Chesty Puller



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Offline dfosterf  
#35 Posted : Friday, May 31, 2013 12:54:45 PM(UTC)
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I lived all of this, Wayne.

As to David's perception of Marines. We have no good gear. We let our hair go long, and our utilities get stinky and old. We hate everyone, including those above us, much less a soldier. We don't look so good in a combat situation when we come off that line.

... But we were on it. The Marines are the ones on what America decided was the line, or the worst place to be. I have 30 years of perspective on the issue, having of course worked with every unit we all know of, plus some you cannot.

Edited by user Friday, May 31, 2013 1:13:08 PM(UTC)  | Reason: Not specified

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damn skippy I'm an owner. I currently own a full .00001924537805515393 % of the Green Bay Packers.



thanks Post received 1 applause.
wpr on 5/31/2013(UTC)
Offline OlHoss1884  
#36 Posted : Friday, May 31, 2013 1:17:21 PM(UTC)
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On a related note, I have far more trust in a good muslim like Yousef Islam (formerly Cat Stevens) than a good Christian like Newt Gingrich. I have never heard a muslim tell me I was going to hell, whereas I have had Christians tell me that because I didn't get my homework done. (Sister Mary at St. Bede's)

I didn't answer the poll question because they amount to the same thing.
"The difference between genius and stupidity is that genius has its limits" --Albert Einstein
Offline dfosterf  
#37 Posted : Friday, May 31, 2013 1:22:24 PM(UTC)
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I always liked Cat Stevens, I always hated stepping outside whatever compound (brick,block,baby) they were lucky enough to be in. Once they stepped out, usually daily or twice-daily, they were in an enfilade position, and they knew it and lived it. That is a Marine concern. Most soldiers would have no fucking clue of what I speak of. I learned fast, but most folk do not know to look to the raggedy ones for answers and give respect.

Edited by user Friday, May 31, 2013 2:18:25 PM(UTC)  | Reason: Not specified

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damn skippy I'm an owner. I currently own a full .00001924537805515393 % of the Green Bay Packers.



Offline DakotaT  
#38 Posted : Friday, May 31, 2013 2:27:56 PM(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: Formo Go to Quoted Post
Yeah.. I'm not talking about personal attacks, though. I'm talking about the batshit crazies this thread attracted. Seriously, and y'all think Bachman/Palin said some crazy shit.. You people should actually read what the hell you are saying!


So does that mean you're not going to join the "Republic will Rise" boys when they take up arms against the U.S. government. What are you, a luke warm tea party boy? Just want the tax evasion part of the movement, not actually willing to rise up, huh?
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Offline DakotaT  
#39 Posted : Friday, May 31, 2013 2:35:39 PM(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: texaspackerbacker Go to Quoted Post
No, Dakota, I grew up in an era of healthy reality, and you grew up in an era when the education system was sadly infested with the bullshit known as political correctness. Self-haters such as yourself need to be excused for their inverse ethnocentricity, I suppose, because you are merely a product of the sick leftist indoctrination you were subjected to in school.



You grew up when minorities were openly treated like shit, which is part of the reason you're the bigot everyone has called you. Believing you are part of a group of people that is superior to everyone else, makes you a fool - and is very un-Christian-like.

Calling everyone that disagrees with you a leftist self hater proves how completely out of touch with reality you are. Maybe you should spend your golden years trying to figure out why you hate everything and everybody different than you, your soul may depend on it.
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thanks Post received 1 applause.
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Offline dfosterf  
#40 Posted : Friday, May 31, 2013 2:53:54 PM(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: DakotaT Go to Quoted Post
You grew up when minorities were openly treated like shit, which is part of the reason you're the bigot everyone has called you. Believing you are part of a group of people that is superior to everyone else, makes you a fool - and is very un-Christian-like.

Calling everyone that disagrees with you a leftist self hater proves how completely out of touch with reality you are. Maybe you should spend your golden years trying to figure out why you hate everything and everybody different than you, your soul may depend on it.



What the fuck are you talking about? He grew up when the boofers were rioting. Not MY boofers, YOUR commie boofers. MY boofers were RIGHT BESIDE ME, MY ELDERS, and MY DUCKLINGS... white, black, Asian, whatever...

They were MEN, just like me. Not whiny, not union, not cry-baby self-entitled bitches...

Men.
Kandahar AFB in Afghanistan was secured and now protected with a one mile perimeter radius by the Marines. The Army, Navy and Air Force stay within that protected zone, with a corridor going to the city protected by the Army. That corridor was also initially secured by the Marines.

Skin color DID become an issue, because we went to Africa, and frankly, we white-boys were teaching our black-boys, Senegalese Woolof, for example... Gambiand and Senegalese preferred to hear it from homie...

Edited by user Friday, May 31, 2013 3:37:23 PM(UTC)  | Reason: Not specified

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damn skippy I'm an owner. I currently own a full .00001924537805515393 % of the Green Bay Packers.



thanks Post received 1 applause.
Formo on 5/31/2013(UTC)
Offline texaspackerbacker  
#41 Posted : Friday, May 31, 2013 3:19:06 PM(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: OlHoss1884 Go to Quoted Post
On a related note, I have far more trust in a good muslim like Yousef Islam (formerly Cat Stevens) than a good Christian like Newt Gingrich. I have never heard a muslim tell me I was going to hell, whereas I have had Christians tell me that because I didn't get my homework done. (Sister Mary at St. Bede's)

I didn't answer the poll question because they amount to the same thing.


Go ahead and trust the shitheads - right up until they blow you to hell. Your God damned IGNORANT comment about Newt Gingrich really gets me - damned fool know nothings repeating the garbage spewed by the left wing assholes of the mainstream media.

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Offline Formo  
#42 Posted : Friday, May 31, 2013 3:21:02 PM(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: OlHoss1884 Go to Quoted Post
On a related note, I have far more trust in a good muslim like Yousef Islam (formerly Cat Stevens) than a good Christian like Newt Gingrich. I have never heard a muslim tell me I was going to hell, whereas I have had Christians tell me that because I didn't get my homework done. (Sister Mary at St. Bede's)


I tend to just trust. Eventually the character of the PERSON (read: religion/beliefs withstanding) will expose their worthiness of my extended trust.

Originally Posted by: OlHoss1884 Go to Quoted Post
I didn't answer the poll question because they amount to the same thing.


Good boy. I will refuse to partake in that poll and it's argument.

Originally Posted by: DakotaT Go to Quoted Post
So does that mean you're not going to join the "Republic will Rise" boys when they take up arms against the U.S. government. What are you, a luke warm tea party boy? Just want the tax evasion part of the movement, not actually willing to rise up, huh?


If the Gubment decides to trample my Constitution, Bill of Rights, and Declaration, you damn right I will. Anyone who would not is a sheep and coward.

Originally Posted by: DakotaT Go to Quoted Post
You grew up when minorities were openly treated like shit, which is part of the reason you're the bigot everyone has called you. Believing you are part of a group of people that is superior to everyone else, makes you a fool - and is very un-Christian-like.

Calling everyone that disagrees with you a leftist self hater proves how completely out of touch with reality you are. Maybe you should spend your golden years trying to figure out why you hate everything and everybody different than you, your soul may depend on it.


lol Pot, meet Kettle. You and Texas are cut from the same cloth, just on separate ends. It's funny.
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Offline texaspackerbacker  
#43 Posted : Friday, May 31, 2013 4:37:46 PM(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: dfosterf Go to Quoted Post
What the fuck are you talking about? He grew up when the boofers were rioting. Not MY boofers, YOUR commie boofers. MY boofers were RIGHT BESIDE ME, MY ELDERS, and MY DUCKLINGS... white, black, Asian, whatever...

They were MEN, just like me. Not whiny, not union, not cry-baby self-entitled bitches...

Men.
Kandahar AFB in Afghanistan was secured and now protected with a one mile perimeter radius by the Marines. The Army, Navy and Air Force stay within that protected zone, with a corridor going to the city protected by the Army. That corridor was also initially secured by the Marines.

Skin color DID become an issue, because we went to Africa, and frankly, we white-boys were teaching our black-boys, Senegalese Woolof, for example... Gambiand and Senegalese preferred to hear it from homie...


What the hell is a "boofer"? hahahaha. I googled it, and this is what came up: "a girl that keeps a porn dude up! for his next scene". Somehow, I don't think that's what you have in mind hahahaha.

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Offline texaspackerbacker  
#44 Posted : Friday, May 31, 2013 4:52:04 PM(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: DakotaT Go to Quoted Post
You grew up when minorities were openly treated like shit, which is part of the reason you're the bigot everyone has called you. Believing you are part of a group of people that is superior to everyone else, makes you a fool - and is very un-Christian-like.

Calling everyone that disagrees with you a leftist self hater proves how completely out of touch with reality you are. Maybe you should spend your golden years trying to figure out why you hate everything and everybody different than you, your soul may depend on it.


First of all, I have a helluva lot more respect for Dakota, misguided as he might be, than some idiot who tries to stifle a good honest discussion and who bad mouths Michelle Bachman and Sarah Palin.

Dakota, you keep trying to drag racism/bigotry into every discussion. Tell me, what constitutes racism/bigotry to you? A. hatred based on racial difference? or B. recognizing and expressing the differences between the races? If it's B., you got me. If it's A., no way. Also, when you say "racism/bigotry", do you literally mean according to race? Or do you also throw in members of a terrorist-sympathizing bogus excuse for a religion and/or practicers of a behavior identified by the Bible as an abomination? On the former, a big no way for me. On the latter ......., yep, you got me there too hahahahaha.

I'm comfortable in my own skin (no pun intended). When I call you a "self-hater", Dakota, maybe the better term would be "reverse ethnocentrist" - or bringing the language down to a more understandable level for you, "a bigot against your own kind" - all the categories you fit into - white Christian American male or whatever. Note: I've stopped calling you a leftist since, to your credit, you claim not to be one. I still say, however, you were sickly and sadly influenced/brainwashed by the leftist political correctness assholes who have infested our educational system for a few decades now.

Oh yeah, just to stir the pot a little bit, minorities were better off and generally happier back then with the racism you describe. Their children grew up decent and respectful, and mostly with good Christian and American values instilled by normal nuclear families - as opposed to now, with their children free to "be black" with all the negative things that connotes. Go ahead and call that racist hahaha, but I think even Martin Luther King would disagree with you.

Edited by user Friday, May 31, 2013 5:08:42 PM(UTC)  | Reason: Not specified

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Offline Wade  
#45 Posted : Saturday, June 1, 2013 8:07:05 AM(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: wpr Go to Quoted Post


Every organized use of arms is a political solution. Almost never does one army move without the consent or the approval of their leadership. (Both national and religious leaders) Even when the use of arms springs up from the masses (Like French and Russian Revolutions) it is still politically based.

Yes. Clausewitz had this bit nailed.
Quote:

How can the French, English or Italians “take back” that which they never possessed previously? Jesus does not look for mankind to enforce by force of arms.

John 18:36
Jesus answered, My kingdom is not of this world: if my kingdom were of this world, then would my servants fight, that I should not be delivered to the Jews: but now is my kingdom not from hence.




Yes. Thank you for this. I was trying to think of the passage in my earlier post, but couldn't remember where it was.]

Quote:


The Crusades like all wars had atrocities committed on both sides. The Europeans were particularly cruel at times. I do not approve of their actions. See John 18:36 above.


Everyone is responsible for their actions. I doubt the percent of Muslim males in the West is any higher than it is for others who participate in these actives. I was actually speaking about these items as they make their way into THEIR countries. But they do not like it where ever it may be found. Based on your argument does this mean you are for it?



Never did I say I excuse them or anyone for any action. I simply pointed out a few of the reasons they hate Westerners.



I do not defend any of their anti-Semitic actions. Actually Semitic is a misnomer. It means “Son of Shem”. Nearly the entire region is a decedent of Shem. I merely stated that no matter what the problem is, they blame Israel.



When it comes to religious beliefs I am probably more conservative than you are. Women should have long hair and not wear pants. Men should have moderately short hair. Neither should dress provocatively.

Oh, pooh.

I understand the bit about not dressing provocatively [even though I tend to enjoy it when good looking women do so. Big Grin ]. But why should women not have short hair?

Quote:
I do not wear shorts in public. My shirts have sleeves. I do not drink or smoke. I try to not curse (Although this site has pushed me to the limits at times.) or take the Lord’s name in vain. We use to worship 3 times a week. As our congregation grew older we have changed it to twice a week. I think most if not all organized religion is manmade and does not serve the Lord. I do not believe in a Trinity.



Agree 100% with point about organized religion.

I'd be interested in hearing sometime about your reason for not believing in a Trinity. Or anyone else's opinion, for that matter. [Anyone else interested in starting a new thread on such a topic?] I must admit that I have trouble getting my mind around the concept. Oh, I have no doubt that God might be triune (God's God, He can be an Octagon if He wants to be). And I do believe that He is Father, Son, and Holy Spirit, all wrapped up in one "package". But not because I've reasoned my way to that conclusion, but only because I believe that is part of what I must be willing to take on faith.

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The West set their colonies free not because they were kind. They did so only when they had to. It became too difficult to maintain any of these empires by force of arms.



Yep. Empire is an expensive proposition. Unless the empire is voluntarily assented to by its imperial subjects, its costs will invariably exceed its benefits. The projection of coercive power on an imperial scale is hugely expensive. Just ask Venice, Spain, Portugal, Holland, and Britain. Or Russia. Or the Ottomans. Or, for that matter, the empire of the Great Khan.

Every one of them eventually came up against the fact. The only reason the United States-as-empire continues is its domestic productive capacity. Empire is still a net drain on the American economy, just as it was for Britain long before 1953; but, like Britain for much of the century before Suez, it has had sufficient productive capacity to "cover" those costs.

The real question is whether the US economy is in a position akin to Britain in 1953 or akin to Britain in 1815. Thanks to its "winning" of the war against Napoleon, Britain's national debt c. 1815 was on the order of 225% of GDP (twice as big a burden as ours is today). Yet because it had the productive oomph of the Industrial Revolution, its economy handled that debt with relative ease. But by 1953, Britain found it could no longer do so, not if it wanted to do all the other things a modern social-democratic state wants to do, because it no longer had the productive ability to cover the net cost of empire, too.

My personal belief is that the USA today is far closer to the position of the Brits in 1953 than people realize. Despite our aging capital stock, and notwithstanding the downturn/stagnation of the last half-decade, we are still the most productive nation in human history. But we are so addicted to government-as-transfer-payment (another characteristic we share with the Britain of 1953), that a huge fraction of our economy is no longer devoted to productive activities but in simply transferring wealth from one pocket to another.
None of the above. It wouldn't have been a wasted vote. Obama and Romney -- Those were the wasted votes.
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