Join Our Green Bay Packers Interactive Community!

We have been providing fans with the best source of Packers information since 2006!
Your participation is greatly anticipated!
Login or Register.
2 Pages12>
Options
View
Go to last post Go to first unread
Offline MintBaconDrivel  
#1 Posted : Sunday, May 19, 2013 1:28:47 AM(UTC)
MintBaconDrivel

Rank: 3rd Round Draft Pick

United States
Joined: 12/11/2012(UTC)

Applause Received: 90

LombardiAve wrote:
Chris Brown, author of 'The Essential Smart Football' and a contributor at ESPN's Grantland, wrote “it's understandable that most fans (and even many coaches) think of football plays in terms of the strict run-pass dichotomy.” To that point, teams usually only do one or the other well. One-dimensional franchises with predictable offenses aren't consistently [...]
Delivering the latest and most important updates on the Green Bay Packers for your convenience.
UserPostedImage
Sponsor
Offline nerdmann  
#2 Posted : Sunday, May 19, 2013 1:37:30 AM(UTC)
nerdmann

Rank: Super Bowl MVP

Joined: 9/14/2008(UTC)

Applause Given: 2,498
Applause Received: 625

For better or worse, this team is based on throwing deep, and doing so often. Having a running game will force defenses to 'respect the run," but that is really it's only function. Draw safeties up for run support, so Aaron can continue throwing deep.

This imho is a low percentage offensive philosophy, lacking in fundamentals. But it just might work, because of the players we have assembled. Freakiest show on Tundra.
“Winning is not a sometime thing, it is an all the time thing. You don't do things right once in a while…you do them right all the time.”
Online yooperfan  
#3 Posted : Sunday, May 19, 2013 2:03:54 AM(UTC)
yooperfan

Rank: 2nd Round Draft Pick

Joined: 8/7/2008(UTC)
Location: Ishpeming Michigan

Applause Given: 567
Applause Received: 256

Good article.
Mike McCarthy should read it.
thanks Post received 1 applause.
nerdmann on 5/20/2013(UTC)
Online steveishere  
#4 Posted : Sunday, May 19, 2013 2:45:41 AM(UTC)
steveishere

Rank: 2nd Round Draft Pick

FleaFlicker Fantasy Football - Gold: 2013

Joined: 7/28/2012(UTC)

Applause Given: 45
Applause Received: 918

Originally Posted by: nerdmann Go to Quoted Post
For better or worse, this team is based on throwing deep, and doing so often. Having a running game will force defenses to 'respect the run," but that is really it's only function. Draw safeties up for run support, so Aaron can continue throwing deep.

This imho is a low percentage offensive philosophy, lacking in fundamentals. But it just might work, because of the players we have assembled. Freakiest show on Tundra.


Not really it's primarily short passes to set up deep passing. They probably do less intermediate (11-20 yard) passes than the average but more in the short (behind LOS - 10 yard) and slightly more deep (20+) than average. If it was a "low percentage" offensive philosophy they wouldn't be one of the most efficient passing offenses in the league year after year but they are so you aren't making any sense.
Offline nerdmann  
#5 Posted : Sunday, May 19, 2013 2:54:59 AM(UTC)
nerdmann

Rank: Super Bowl MVP

Joined: 9/14/2008(UTC)

Applause Given: 2,498
Applause Received: 625

Tell you one thing. If Arodge went down for a game or two, I'd feel WAY better with these RBs in the lineup with Graham Harrell.
“Winning is not a sometime thing, it is an all the time thing. You don't do things right once in a while…you do them right all the time.”
Offline texaspackerbacker  
#6 Posted : Sunday, May 19, 2013 6:33:28 AM(UTC)
texaspackerbacker

Rank: 1st Round Draft Pick

Yahoo! NCAA March Madness - Gold: 2014

United States
Joined: 3/4/2013(UTC)
Location: Texas

Applause Given: 420
Applause Received: 250

Originally Posted by: nerdmann Go to Quoted Post
For better or worse, this team is based on throwing deep, and doing so often. Having a running game will force defenses to 'respect the run," but that is really it's only function. Draw safeties up for run support, so Aaron can continue throwing deep.

This imho is a low percentage offensive philosophy, lacking in fundamentals. But it just might work, because of the players we have assembled. Freakiest show on Tundra.


I agree completely with your first paragraph analysis, but I disagree with your humble opinion in the second. I LIKE it like that. Some play action, a few screens, and of course short yardage, and at least the THREAT of grinding it out, but I'd hate to see the Packers go back to the team I saw for literally decades almost religiously run on first down about 95% of the time.
Expressing the Good Normal Views of Good Normal Americans.
If Anything I Say Smacks of Extremism, Please Tell Me EXACTLY What.
Offline play2win  
#7 Posted : Sunday, May 19, 2013 7:52:15 AM(UTC)
play2win

Rank: 1st Round Draft Pick

United States
Joined: 3/29/2012(UTC)
Location: Milwaukee

Applause Given: 1,076
Applause Received: 725

Originally Posted by: texaspackerbacker Go to Quoted Post
I agree completely with your first paragraph analysis, but I disagree with your humble opinion in the second. I LIKE it like that. Some play action, a few screens, and of course short yardage, and at least the THREAT of grinding it out, but I'd hate to see the Packers go back to the team I saw for literally decades almost religiously run on first down about 95% of the time.


The times have changed, along with the level of talent at RB.

I say, " bring it!" We are literally going to run on this NFL, one where defenses have been building in recent years to stop pass heavy attacks.

This is a perfect storm Ted and Mike are building in GB. Personally, I am very much looking forward to run plays on every down for an entire scoring drive. It will happen, and I can't wait to witness that first all run drive.

It would be foolish to not run based upon recollections of inferior play, scheme and personnel of long past history.

Our offense, on paper, is finally balanced. McCarthy still must make the most of that. How he uses this and how he prepares his staff and team will be crucial.

I'd say the real "balance" that will win us another championship is the balance of O and D improvements. The run heavy additions with the RBs and OL, along with what appear to be sound adds at WR and TE, along with the new faces on D, and important players returning from injury was JUST what the doctor ordered - on the personnel side.

Lets see what Mike does with this.
Offline buckeyepackfan  
#8 Posted : Sunday, May 19, 2013 8:08:15 AM(UTC)
buckeyepackfan

Rank: 1st Round Draft Pick

FleaFlicker Fantasy Football - Bronze: 2012Yahoo! NCAA March Madness - Bronze: 2014

Joined: 8/7/2008(UTC)
Location: Lima, Ohio

Applause Given: 297
Applause Received: 417

Here are the stats from 2008-2012 +2003 & 1996

YEAR.....RUSH ATTMPTS.........AVG.........PASS COMPLETIONS..........AVG.

2012.............433..................3.9YDS..............374...........................7.8YDS
2011.............395..................3.9YDS..............376...........................9.3YDS
2010.............421..................3.8YDS..............352.........................13.8YDS
2009.............438..................4.3YDS..............357...........................8.1YDS
2008.............437..................4.1YDS..............343...........................7.5YDS

2003.............507..................5.0YDS..............310...........................7.1YDS
1996.............465..................4.0YDS..............328...........................7.2YDS

I added 2003 because that was the year The Packers dominated with the run game.
1996 was of course the other Superbowl year.

The "throwing deep" theory kind of goes up in smoke the last 2 year, funny Aaron's best(yds/per completion) year was 2010.

Hopefully with healthy RB's this year and a healthy O-line, yds per carry will jump(4.5 - 5.0) would seem to be a good goal.
As far as throwing the ball, I don't really think there will be much of a difference, pay a guy 20+ mil a year, I think you would want him to utilize his talents.

EDIT: Regular season only

Edited by user Sunday, May 19, 2013 8:23:40 AM(UTC)  | Reason: Not specified

Enjoy the ride – It kicks and just keeps on kickin’.
thanks Post received 3 applause.
play2win on 5/19/2013(UTC), OlHoss1884 on 5/20/2013(UTC), Porforis on 5/20/2013(UTC)
Offline play2win  
#9 Posted : Sunday, May 19, 2013 9:09:52 AM(UTC)
play2win

Rank: 1st Round Draft Pick

United States
Joined: 3/29/2012(UTC)
Location: Milwaukee

Applause Given: 1,076
Applause Received: 725

Originally Posted by: buckeyepackfan Go to Quoted Post
Here are the stats from 2008-2012 +2003 & 1996

YEAR.....RUSH ATTMPTS.........AVG.........PASS COMPLETIONS..........AVG.

2012.............433..................3.9YDS..............374...........................7.8YDS
2011.............395..................3.9YDS..............376...........................9.3YDS
2010.............421..................3.8YDS..............352.........................13.8YDS
2009.............438..................4.3YDS..............357...........................8.1YDS
2008.............437..................4.1YDS..............343...........................7.5YDS

2003.............507..................5.0YDS..............310...........................7.1YDS
1996.............465..................4.0YDS..............328...........................7.2YDS

I added 2003 because that was the year The Packers dominated with the run game.
1996 was of course the other Superbowl year.

The "throwing deep" theory kind of goes up in smoke the last 2 year, funny Aaron's best(yds/per completion) year was 2010.

Hopefully with healthy RB's this year and a healthy O-line, yds per carry will jump(4.5 - 5.0) would seem to be a good goal.
As far as throwing the ball, I don't really think there will be much of a difference, pay a guy 20+ mil a year, I think you would want him to utilize his talents.

EDIT: Regular season only


That's great to see buckeypackfan.

I think both per play averages go up this season. Cobb should have a big breakout year.
Offline Pack93z  
#10 Posted : Sunday, May 19, 2013 9:42:47 AM(UTC)
Pack93z

Rank: Hall of Famer

PackersHome NFL Pick'em - Bronze: 2012

United States
Joined: 3/16/2007(UTC)
Location: North Central Wisconsin

Applause Given: 388
Applause Received: 1,047

If you search Pack93z and balance on the forum... 38 pages.

Yes.. I agree with the thought.. it is a core belief of mine on the game of football.

Edited by user Sunday, May 19, 2013 11:34:10 AM(UTC)  | Reason: Not specified

I think when there's enough will and aggression, there's no shortage of talent either.

UserPostedImage
thanks Post received 1 applause.
play2win on 5/19/2013(UTC)
Offline warhawk  
#11 Posted : Sunday, May 19, 2013 10:40:28 AM(UTC)
warhawk

Rank: 3rd Round Draft Pick

Joined: 8/7/2008(UTC)

Applause Received: 215

Everyone talks balance but when you look at the stats year in-year out the prolific passing teams nor the best running teams can seem to make it happen.

Last year five of the top 8 passing teams were ranked lower than the Packers in rushing and only NE had significantly better rushing numbers. On the flip side out of the top five rushing teams Washington ranked the BEST in passing at #22.

The balance only seems to come with the mediocre teams ranked in the middle somewhere in both the passing and rushing stats. You have teams built to pass it and teams built to run it and when your one of the top dogs in either you take it all the way to the barn.

Only the Pats had exceptional balance in the top 10 both rushing and passing ypg and yet they have the same problem we have had playing well in the regular season only to get rolled out early in the playoffs.

Give me Rodgers and Co. and a defense healthy and playing at their best at the end of the season. I think we have more talent in the run game and it will be more effective but probably not a whole lot more balanced stat wise.
"The train is leaving the station."
thanks Post received 1 applause.
Porforis on 5/20/2013(UTC)
Offline nerdmann  
#12 Posted : Sunday, May 19, 2013 2:01:08 PM(UTC)
nerdmann

Rank: Super Bowl MVP

Joined: 9/14/2008(UTC)

Applause Given: 2,498
Applause Received: 625

Originally Posted by: buckeyepackfan Go to Quoted Post
Here are the stats from 2008-2012 +2003 & 1996

YEAR.....RUSH ATTMPTS.........AVG.........PASS COMPLETIONS..........AVG.

2012.............433..................3.9YDS..............374...........................7.8YDS
2011.............395..................3.9YDS..............376...........................9.3YDS
2010.............421..................3.8YDS..............352.........................13.8YDS
2009.............438..................4.3YDS..............357...........................8.1YDS
2008.............437..................4.1YDS..............343...........................7.5YDS

2003.............507..................5.0YDS..............310...........................7.1YDS
1996.............465..................4.0YDS..............328...........................7.2YDS

I added 2003 because that was the year The Packers dominated with the run game.
1996 was of course the other Superbowl year.

The "throwing deep" theory kind of goes up in smoke the last 2 year, funny Aaron's best(yds/per completion) year was 2010.

Hopefully with healthy RB's this year and a healthy O-line, yds per carry will jump(4.5 - 5.0) would seem to be a good goal.
As far as throwing the ball, I don't really think there will be much of a difference, pay a guy 20+ mil a year, I think you would want him to utilize his talents.

EDIT: Regular season only


Holmgren used screens (to RBs, not WRs) and short passes as part of his running game. His offense was based on WCO fundamentals.

“Winning is not a sometime thing, it is an all the time thing. You don't do things right once in a while…you do them right all the time.”
Offline nerdmann  
#13 Posted : Sunday, May 19, 2013 2:02:09 PM(UTC)
nerdmann

Rank: Super Bowl MVP

Joined: 9/14/2008(UTC)

Applause Given: 2,498
Applause Received: 625

PREDICTION: Defenses will let us run all we want, because they know we don't want to run. They know we only drafted these RBs to draw the safeties up. They know that if they keep the safeties deep, we'll throw deep anyway.
“Winning is not a sometime thing, it is an all the time thing. You don't do things right once in a while…you do them right all the time.”
thanks Post received 1 applause.
OlHoss1884 on 5/20/2013(UTC)
Online steveishere  
#14 Posted : Sunday, May 19, 2013 2:09:19 PM(UTC)
steveishere

Rank: 2nd Round Draft Pick

FleaFlicker Fantasy Football - Gold: 2013

Joined: 7/28/2012(UTC)

Applause Given: 45
Applause Received: 918

Originally Posted by: nerdmann Go to Quoted Post
PREDICTION: Defenses will let us run all we want, because they know we don't want to run. They know we only drafted these RBs to draw the safeties up. They know that if they keep the safeties deep, we'll throw deep anyway.


PREDICTION: We will have one of the best offenses in the NFL yet again and some fans will continue to come up with bogus reasons to cry about it.
thanks Post received 1 applause.
DoddPower on 5/19/2013(UTC)
Offline OlHoss1884  
#15 Posted : Monday, May 20, 2013 5:54:34 AM(UTC)
OlHoss1884

Rank: 6th Round Draft Pick

United States
Joined: 5/8/2013(UTC)
Location: Waukegan, IL

Applause Given: 53
Applause Received: 158

It isn't a matter of balancing the runs with the passes...it's a matter of making them compliment each other, and using the best available plays against what a defense can/can't do. In the playoffs, the QB usually has to be able to make big plays because you tend to go up against better defenses. The "balance" will be that the Packers ability to run this year will not only draw the safeties up, as mentioned, but will prevent teams from being able to sell out with personnel packages for the pass rush and coverage, because they'll get it rammed down their throats.

The other thing it allows is the ability to grind out clock late in the game when protecting a lead. Sometimes the best defense is to keep the ball out f the hands of someone who can make big plays and win games...like Kaepernik, Manning, RGIII, Stafford to Johnson, Cutler to Marshall, Flacco, Roethlesberger, Dalton to Green and Ryan. ALL of whom are on the schedule this year.

In addition, a 3rd and 1 or two when you can run more reliably means Lacy or Franklin are a better option than throwing or trying to sneak with A-Rod every time...and if they stack the line to stop it, play action passes will eat them up.

It might mean calling only 20 eushes per game, but if those are used more effectively, the 40 passes will bring that yards per pass number back up and ultimately more points on the scoreboard.
"The difference between genius and stupidity is that genius has its limits" --Albert Einstein
thanks Post received 1 applause.
Porforis on 5/20/2013(UTC)
 
Users browsing this topic
Guest (3)
2 Pages12>
Forum Jump  
You cannot post new topics in this forum.
You cannot reply to topics in this forum.
You cannot delete your posts in this forum.
You cannot edit your posts in this forum.
You cannot create polls in this forum.
You cannot vote in polls in this forum.

Powered by YAF.NET | YAF.NET © 2003-2014, Yet Another Forum.NET
This page was generated in 0.350 seconds.

Notification

Icon
Error

Tweeter

Recent Topics
53m / Random Babble / Smokey

2h / Green Bay Packers Talk / Rockmolder

3h / Fantasy Sports Talk / Smokey

5h / Green Bay Packers Talk / Smokey

5h / Green Bay Packers Talk / DarkaneRules

8h / Around The NFL / Smokey

9h / Green Bay Packers Talk / nerdmann

10h / Green Bay Packers Talk / nerdmann

10h / Random Babble / Cheesey

10h / Green Bay Packers Talk / dfosterf

10h / Random Babble / Cheesey

12h / Green Bay Packers Talk / nerdmann

14h / Green Bay Packers Talk / pkrjones

14h / Super Bowl Talk / wpr

14h / Random Babble / wpr


Copyright © 2006-2014 PackersHome.com™. All Rights Reserved.