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Offline TheKanataThrilla  
#1 Posted : Monday, January 7, 2013 10:07:30 AM(UTC)
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Simple question. His coaching of RGIII was ridiculous from a winning and long term investment in a franchise QB perspective. It gave them no chance to win with an obviously hurt QB under center with the talent on Defence that the Seahawks bring. Especially with Cousins who proved himself to be a pretty adequate back-up. The second point and most crucial in my opinion is you finally have yourself a franchise QB in Washington and do you really risk his long term health when it is pretty much a given that this playoff is a learning experience for the team? I understand loyalty to a guy who wants to play... but this was stupidity by somebody who is suppose to look after the health of the players on the team. How in the hell did the team doctor not pull him as well is beyond me.
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Offline RainX  
#2 Posted : Monday, January 7, 2013 10:31:09 AM(UTC)
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This was the best season the Redskins had in recent memory. Despite the hiccup in the playoffs, Washington still rattled off seven straight wins to get and win their division for the first time since the 90's. He get's at least one more season.
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Offline wpr  
#3 Posted : Monday, January 7, 2013 10:42:58 AM(UTC)
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no. he stays. You can not fault a coach or a player for trying to do all they can and then a little more in order to win.
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Offline Wade  
#4 Posted : Monday, January 7, 2013 10:43:13 AM(UTC)
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I've never been impressed with Shanahan. I know this is judgmental and without any evidence beyond "personal impressions", but he's always struck me as a scumbag. Partly because I'll associate the evil parts of the the ZBS with him and Denver, partly because he's always come off as a complete arrogant ass in his public statements. I think that's part of the reason I sided more with Albert Haynsworth than just about anyone -- he was going against Shanahan -- he couldn't be wholly at fault.

To be honest, if you asked me which coach in the league would be most likely to risk further injury to one of his players in pursuit of victory at any cost, it would be Shanahan.

It's not fair of me, I know. I don't know him from Adam. I have nothing more than my gut feelings to back me up.

But that's how I feel.

I could care less if Washington fires him or disciplines him. I would never have touched him with a 10-foot pole if I were hiring a football coach. I probably wouldn't have hired him if he had been willing to work for free.
None of the above. It wouldn't have been a wasted vote. Obama and Romney -- Those were the wasted votes.
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DakotaT on 1/7/2013(UTC)
Offline wpr  
#5 Posted : Monday, January 7, 2013 10:50:08 AM(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: Wade Go to Quoted Post
I've never been impressed with Shanahan. I know this is judgmental and without any evidence beyond "personal impressions", but he's always struck me as a scumbag. Partly because I'll associate the evil parts of the the ZBS with him and Denver, partly because he's always come off as a complete arrogant ass in his public statements. I think that's part of the reason I sided more with Albert Haynsworth than just about anyone -- he was going against Shanahan -- he couldn't be wholly at fault.

To be honest, if you asked me which coach in the league would be most likely to risk further injury to one of his players in pursuit of victory at any cost, it would be Shanahan.

It's not fair of me, I know. I don't know him from Adam. I have nothing more than my gut feelings to back me up.

But that's how I feel.

I could care less if Washington fires him or disciplines him. I would never have touched him with a 10-foot pole if I were hiring a football coach. I probably wouldn't have hired him if he had been willing to work for free.


ah that is a whole different question/issue- Do I like Shanahan or trust him? No. Like you I do not have any empirical data to justify my position.
"You don't hurt 'em if you don't hit 'em." Chesty Puller



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Offline TheKanataThrilla  
#6 Posted : Monday, January 7, 2013 10:55:24 AM(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: wpr Go to Quoted Post
no. he stays. You can not fault a coach or a player for trying to do all they can and then a little more in order to win.


I don't blame RGIII at all for wanting to stay in, but I do not agree with the statement that keeping RGIII in the game was doing all they could to win. Cousins proved himself to be a pretty good back-up in the one game he got to play this season. RGIII couldn't run or plant to throw... he was completely ineffective and if it wasn't for the strong 'Skins defence the Seahawks would have blown the game wide open.

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Offline Pack93z  
#7 Posted : Monday, January 7, 2013 10:59:41 AM(UTC)
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My opinion of Shannahan the man aside.. no, players know their bodies better than anyone. If a player says they can play.. and that player with limitations due to the ding presents a better option on winning that game.. he plays.

It wasn't like the Ravens game were the Docs never got a chance to thumb up or down it.. it is between the coaches and player if he plays upon being cleared.

I heard on the Radio this morning that due to RGIII's age, an adult should have pulled him. Is RG3 not old enough to vote, drink or serve for this country. Then he is certainly old enough to make this decision for himself.

I disagree with the premise that this falls on the coach.. it doesn't, it falls upon the player if he is good to go, and then it is on the coach if this player gives them the best shot to win.

Jared Allen played the most of the season with a torn labrum for instance.. he played because he thought he could and the Vikes thought he gave them the best chance to win. Same with Suggs, Lewis, Justin Smith... they all have decided that they can play through it.

Cutler a couple years ago, decided he couldn't go. Ponder had it decided for him that he didn't give the Vikes the best chance to win this past weekend. This happens all the time.

The only time I would disagree, is in head related injuries where the player may be compromised mentally, at that point the doctors and coaches should make the call to sit the player.
I think when there's enough will and aggression, there's no shortage of talent either.

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Offline Pack93z  
#8 Posted : Monday, January 7, 2013 11:00:47 AM(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: TheKanataThrilla Go to Quoted Post
I don't blame RGIII at all for wanting to stay in, but I do not agree with the statement that keeping RGIII in the game was doing all they could to win. Cousins proved himself to be a pretty good back-up in the one game he got to play this season. RGIII couldn't run or plant to throw... he was completely ineffective and if it wasn't for the strong 'Skins defence the Seahawks would have blown the game wide open.



That is a different topic than being fired for not taking care of RG3's well being.. completely different. My Opinion.
I think when there's enough will and aggression, there's no shortage of talent either.

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Offline TheKanataThrilla  
#9 Posted : Monday, January 7, 2013 11:13:29 AM(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: Pack93z Go to Quoted Post
That is a different topic than being fired for not taking care of RG3's well being.. completely different. My Opinion.


It is completely different, but as it occurred simultaneously yesterday I bring it up. If you are seen to be risking the health of your franchise quarterback and hindering your team's chance to win I consider you to be a failure as a coach.

I don't think anyone would have faulted the coach for pulling RGIII. It was obvious he couldn't run or plant to throw.

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Offline PackFanWithTwins  
#10 Posted : Monday, January 7, 2013 11:15:57 AM(UTC)
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They covered this pretty well on Mike and Mike this morning. Medically, only a doctor can say a player can't play. Assuming the doctors said he could. I can't fault Shanahan for allowing him back on the field medically, unless it comes out that he was told there was a high risk of greater injury. Now the 2nd part of the discussion is. Once the Doctors have cleared the player to be able to play. It becomes the coaches choice in whether the player is the best option for the team.

I can't say, cousins was or was not a better option. the one play they tried to point out the RGIII was not himself on the sack when he had rolled out some. Well, cousins is not going to do any better in that situation. Cousins played well in one game, vs Clevland. Not a good indicator that he would be solid against a defense like Seattle has.
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Offline Gaycandybacon  
#11 Posted : Monday, January 7, 2013 11:17:09 AM(UTC)
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Ya it's shannahans fault. Who would of thought the turf would sack him and roll under his leg. Shannahan sure did.

The only way it would be Shannahans fault is if he forced RG3 to go out and play if RG3 DIDN'T WANT TO PLAY. It's not the coaches fault. #Injurieshappen
Offline wpr  
#12 Posted : Monday, January 7, 2013 12:21:32 PM(UTC)
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Slightly off topic but let's throw Nick Collins into the mix. If some of the doctors said he's ok to play and some doctors said they didn't think so, Ted, Nick and Mike all agree that he can play and Mike put him back on the field after surgery and he ended up paralyzed that would not constituent firing a HC.

The reason I mention Nick is his potential injury could be paralysis which is far more serious than RG3's knee injury.
"You don't hurt 'em if you don't hit 'em." Chesty Puller



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Offline TheKanataThrilla  
#13 Posted : Monday, January 7, 2013 12:45:35 PM(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: wpr Go to Quoted Post
Slightly off topic but let's throw Nick Collins into the mix. If some of the doctors said he's ok to play and some doctors said they didn't think so, Ted, Nick and Mike all agree that he can play and Mike put him back on the field after surgery and he ended up paralyzed that would not constituent firing a HC.

The reason I mention Nick is his potential injury could be paralysis which is far more serious than RG3's knee injury.



If that was Aaron Rodgers hobbling on the field being teed off on by the Seahawk defence would you not be yelling to get him the hell out of the game? I know I would and I would blame the fuck out of the coach should any permanent damage be done.
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Offline wpr  
#14 Posted : Monday, January 7, 2013 12:53:46 PM(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: TheKanataThrilla Go to Quoted Post
If that was Aaron Rodgers hobbling on the field being teed off on by the Seahawk defence would you not be yelling to get him the hell out of the game? I know I would and I would blame the fuck out of the coach should any permanent damage be done.


yelling at coach < firing him
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Offline Formo  
#15 Posted : Monday, January 7, 2013 1:16:26 PM(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: Pack93z Go to Quoted Post
My opinion of Shannahan the man aside.. no, players know their bodies better than anyone. If a player says they can play.. and that player with limitations due to the ding presents a better option on winning that game.. he plays.

It wasn't like the Ravens game were the Docs never got a chance to thumb up or down it.. it is between the coaches and player if he plays upon being cleared.

I heard on the Radio this morning that due to RGIII's age, an adult should have pulled him. Is RG3 not old enough to vote, drink or serve for this country. Then he is certainly old enough to make this decision for himself.

I disagree with the premise that this falls on the coach.. it doesn't, it falls upon the player if he is good to go, and then it is on the coach if this player gives them the best shot to win.

Jared Allen played the most of the season with a torn labrum for instance.. he played because he thought he could and the Vikes thought he gave them the best chance to win. Same with Suggs, Lewis, Justin Smith... they all have decided that they can play through it.

Cutler a couple years ago, decided he couldn't go. Ponder had it decided for him that he didn't give the Vikes the best chance to win this past weekend. This happens all the time.

The only time I would disagree, is in head related injuries where the player may be compromised mentally, at that point the doctors and coaches should make the call to sit the player.


Agreed. That, and we have to take injuries case by case. No broad generalizations. I think it's ludicrous that fans sitting on their fat asses (including myself) are calling Ponder/Cutler pussies because they have taken themselves out of playoff games. Yeah, it's easy to make a decision for a guy when it's not YOUR elbow/leg/etc. that's jacked up.

His demeanor aside, I actually like Cutler's grittiness.
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