Welcome to your Green Bay Packers Online Community!

Since 2006, PackersHome has been providing a unique experience for fans.
Your participation is greatly anticipated!
Login or Register.
5 Pages<12345>
Options
View
Go to last post Go to first unread
Offline Dexter_Sinister  
#31 Posted : Monday, March 14, 2011 3:07:12 AM(UTC)
Dexter_Sinister

Rank: 2nd Round Draft Pick

Joined: 6/12/2010(UTC)

Applause Given: 278
Applause Received: 266

Rushing success doesn't equal rushing either.

Of course he was talking about success at an elite level. Which has proven to be a non factor. Specially if you look at recent trends.

Yes it was important 20 years ago. It isn't 20 years ago now though.

Were there any other changes in the Bronco's after they got Davis? If he was the only factor that changed including luck, who opponents are and they didn't change one bit, then people can say he was the reason they went from a super bowl team to a super bowl winning team. Otherwise it could easily be dismissed as coincidence. Statistically speaking.
I want to go out like my Grandpa did. Peacefully in his sleep.

Not screaming in terror like his passengers.
Offline Zero2Cool  
#32 Posted : Monday, March 14, 2011 6:41:31 AM(UTC)
Zero2Cool

Rank: Legend

Yahoo! Fantasy Football - Gold: 2009FleaFlicker Fantasy Football - Silver: 2010Yahoo! NCAA March Madness - Silver: 2011ESPN NCAA March Madness - Bronze: 2010Yahoo! NCAA March Madness - Bronze: 2013

United States
Joined: 10/13/2006(UTC)
Location: Green Bay, WI

Applause Given: 1,868
Applause Received: 2,044

Originally Posted by: " Go to Quoted Post
It isn't 20 years ago now though.


I do not believe this at all.
UserPostedImage
Offline zombieslayer  
#33 Posted : Monday, March 14, 2011 2:30:51 PM(UTC)
zombieslayer

Rank: Most Valuable Player

Joined: 8/7/2008(UTC)
Location: San Francisco

Applause Given: 778
Applause Received: 495

Originally Posted by: " Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: " Go to Quoted Post
It isn't 20 years ago now though.


I do not believe this at all.


That's fine, then give us some facts to back this up.

Even though I disagree with Macbob and Pack93z on this issue, I have utmost respect for both of them for trying to prove their points with facts.

You only seem to reply with name calling.
My man Donald Driver
UserPostedImage

(thanks to Pack93z for the pic)

2010 will be seen as the beginning of the new Packers dynasty. Ted Thompson Mike McCarthy Aaron Rodgers
Offline doddpower  
#34 Posted : Monday, March 14, 2011 2:48:58 PM(UTC)
DoddPower

Rank: 1st Round Draft Pick

FleaFlicker Fantasy Football - Gold: 2011

United States
Joined: 9/24/2007(UTC)
Location: Visalia, CA

Applause Given: 1,862
Applause Received: 430

Originally Posted by: " Go to Quoted Post
You only seem to reply with name calling.



Zing! :whipitgood: :whipitgood:
Offline DakotaT  
#35 Posted : Monday, March 14, 2011 6:41:34 PM(UTC)
DakotaT

Rank: Super Bowl MVP

Joined: 8/18/2008(UTC)

Applause Given: 637
Applause Received: 1,314

Rember the time we held that whimp Barry Sanders to -1 rushing yards in a playoff game?

The Broncos should have been stripped of those titles because without cheating the cap system in place, they would not have been able to sign some of the veteran players necessary to win those championships. A third round pick and some cash was cheap for two Lombardis.
UserPostedImage
Offline Zero2Cool  
#36 Posted : Monday, March 14, 2011 8:45:29 PM(UTC)
Zero2Cool

Rank: Legend

Yahoo! Fantasy Football - Gold: 2009FleaFlicker Fantasy Football - Silver: 2010Yahoo! NCAA March Madness - Silver: 2011ESPN NCAA March Madness - Bronze: 2010Yahoo! NCAA March Madness - Bronze: 2013

United States
Joined: 10/13/2006(UTC)
Location: Green Bay, WI

Applause Given: 1,868
Applause Received: 2,044

Originally Posted by: " Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: " Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: " Go to Quoted Post
It isn't 20 years ago now though.


I do not believe this at all.


That's fine, then give us some facts to back this up.

Even though I disagree with Macbob and Pack93z on this issue, I have utmost respect for both of them for trying to prove their points with facts.

You only seem to reply with name calling.


How can you disagree that it's not 20 years ago? You want facts, look at a damn calendar!

Barry Sanders gets thrown under the bus, with comments ensuing it was done to rile me up, so I like normal, jokingly respond over the top in his defense and suddenly I'm accused of ONLY seeming to reply with name calling?

Wow, maybe I am too hard on myself and perhaps its not me who needs to lighten up after all.
UserPostedImage
Offline Packers_Finland  
#37 Posted : Monday, March 14, 2011 9:08:52 PM(UTC)
Packers_Finland

Rank: 1st Round Draft Pick

Joined: 8/11/2008(UTC)

Applause Given: 88
Applause Received: 45

I don't think zombie got your joke Zero.

And as for me baiting you, it's all in good fun as you surely know.
This is a placeholder
Offline Zero2Cool  
#38 Posted : Monday, March 14, 2011 9:17:01 PM(UTC)
Zero2Cool

Rank: Legend

Yahoo! Fantasy Football - Gold: 2009FleaFlicker Fantasy Football - Silver: 2010Yahoo! NCAA March Madness - Silver: 2011ESPN NCAA March Madness - Bronze: 2010Yahoo! NCAA March Madness - Bronze: 2013

United States
Joined: 10/13/2006(UTC)
Location: Green Bay, WI

Applause Given: 1,868
Applause Received: 2,044

Originally Posted by: " Go to Quoted Post
I don't think zombie got your joke Zero.

And as for me baiting you, it's all in good fun as you surely know.


I was going to say maybe that's because zombies are dead inside, but there I go name calling again!


I figured it was in good fun as was my response. But whatever, like I've said many times, less posting by me, the site is better. Examples to support that abound! :)
UserPostedImage
Offline DakotaT  
#39 Posted : Monday, March 14, 2011 9:39:33 PM(UTC)
DakotaT

Rank: Super Bowl MVP

Joined: 8/18/2008(UTC)

Applause Given: 637
Applause Received: 1,314

Originally Posted by: " Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: " Go to Quoted Post
I don't think zombie got your joke Zero.

And as for me baiting you, it's all in good fun as you surely know.


I was going to say maybe that's because zombies are dead inside, but there I go name calling again!


I figured it was in good fun as was my response. But whatever, like I've said many times, less posting by me, the site is better. Examples to support that abound! :)


I think people enjoy fvcking with you just as much as me. I enjoy seeing you get riled up, but I'm demented.
UserPostedImage
Offline Zero2Cool  
#40 Posted : Monday, March 14, 2011 10:08:34 PM(UTC)
Zero2Cool

Rank: Legend

Yahoo! Fantasy Football - Gold: 2009FleaFlicker Fantasy Football - Silver: 2010Yahoo! NCAA March Madness - Silver: 2011ESPN NCAA March Madness - Bronze: 2010Yahoo! NCAA March Madness - Bronze: 2013

United States
Joined: 10/13/2006(UTC)
Location: Green Bay, WI

Applause Given: 1,868
Applause Received: 2,044

Originally Posted by: " Go to Quoted Post
I think people enjoy fvcking with you just as much as me. I enjoy seeing you get riled up, but I'm demented.


And I'm perfectly fine with that, especially when it comes to Barry Sanders. I was just tying to tow the joking line, but guess I went to far.
UserPostedImage
Offline macbob  
#41 Posted : Monday, March 14, 2011 10:33:07 PM(UTC)
macbob

Rank: 2nd Round Draft Pick

Yahoo! NCAA March Madness - Gold: 2013FleaFlicker Fantasy Football - Silver: 2012PackersHome NFL Pick'em - Silver: 2012

Joined: 10/12/2008(UTC)

Applause Given: 264
Applause Received: 227

Originally Posted by: " Go to Quoted Post
Rushing success doesn't equal rushing either.

Of course he was talking about success at an elite level. Which has proven to be a non factor. Specially if you look at recent trends.

Yes it was important 20 years ago. It isn't 20 years ago now though.

Were there any other changes in the Bronco's after they got Davis? If he was the only factor that changed including luck, who opponents are and they didn't change one bit, then people can say he was the reason they went from a super bowl team to a super bowl winning team. Otherwise it could easily be dismissed as coincidence. Statistically speaking.


Dexter--Zombie IS saying all running is irrelevant (even though he subsequently said he wasn't)

OR

Zombie is saying running IS relevant, but it's SUCCESSFUL running (e.g., running success) that is irrelevant.

Despite other comments in this thread, Zombie's not a COMPLETE moron :icon_smile: (smiley face = just kidding), so it can't be #2.

So, contrary to later disclaimers, I'm back to #1.
UserPostedImage
Offline vikesrule  
#42 Posted : Monday, March 14, 2011 10:42:59 PM(UTC)
vikesrule

Rank: 1st Round Draft Pick

Joined: 8/4/2007(UTC)

Applause Given: 60
Applause Received: 193

Originally Posted by: " Go to Quoted Post
...I think people enjoy fvcking with you just as much as me..



While screwing with Z2C has provided much pleasure and entertainment over the past 5 years or so,
when you showed up, it brought messin' with a cheesehead to a whole new level.

I mean, that in your case, there is such an unending amount of material to work with.
A dufus of your caliber is pretty much a once in a generation type thing.
Offline Zero2Cool  
#43 Posted : Monday, March 14, 2011 10:45:45 PM(UTC)
Zero2Cool

Rank: Legend

Yahoo! Fantasy Football - Gold: 2009FleaFlicker Fantasy Football - Silver: 2010Yahoo! NCAA March Madness - Silver: 2011ESPN NCAA March Madness - Bronze: 2010Yahoo! NCAA March Madness - Bronze: 2013

United States
Joined: 10/13/2006(UTC)
Location: Green Bay, WI

Applause Given: 1,868
Applause Received: 2,044

Waiting to hear back to see if I'm approved for a car loan and went through some posts.

I think what's being said is that it's better to have an elite QB, rather than elite RB. Which is no secret. No one's ever said you NEED to have an elite RB to win a Super Bowl, at least, not in what I've read. A running game is needed, yes. As I've said countless times, I feel 10 carries for 30 yards is more efficient for the offense than 5 carries for 30 yards. My reasoning is that the more times you run, the more times the defense has to honor the run and it opens up play action passes.

Back to Barry Sanders @ 10mil vs Nance @450k. This is impossible to prove and anyone wanting facts to prove one way or the other is absurdly crazy go nuts. And since I fall into that category, I'll try to lay out why I think its difficult.

Barry + average QB = passing game a lot better.
Nance + elite QB = doesn't improve passing game, might hurt because there's no chance for Nance.
Barry + elite QB = pure offensive domination.

We also have to take into consideration the OL and WR... I mean there's just TOO many variables to even consider having an argument like this.

You give me an Matt Flynn, Barry Sanders, Greg Jennings and Jordy Nelson and I'll give you a feared offense.

A Barry Sanders or even LaDanian Tomlinson simply just helps your team. Assuming said players are in their hayday.

If anyone wants to hold it against Barry because the Lions didn't win a Super Bowl with him is ridiculous. This goes along with zombieslayers point, it's easier to STOP the run than it is to stop the pass. That's just logic. Load up the box, maintain gap discipline and you should stop the run.

IF a team CAN get good yards running the ball and passing the ball its makes BOTH phases that much better.


If one were to say it's better to have elite QB + Ryan Grant @1 million over Elite QB + Barry Sanders @ 10 million ... I'd agree with that because Ryan might run into his own guys, but at times he can break one deep.
UserPostedImage
Offline macbob  
#44 Posted : Monday, March 14, 2011 11:31:55 PM(UTC)
macbob

Rank: 2nd Round Draft Pick

Yahoo! NCAA March Madness - Gold: 2013FleaFlicker Fantasy Football - Silver: 2012PackersHome NFL Pick'em - Silver: 2012

Joined: 10/12/2008(UTC)

Applause Given: 264
Applause Received: 227

Originally Posted by: " Go to Quoted Post
I think what's being said is that it's better to have an elite QB, rather than elite RB. Which is no secret. No one's ever said you NEED to have an elite RB to win a Super Bowl, at least, not in what I've read.


Zero, I'd like to agree with you that is what Zombie is saying. I originally thought that Zombie was just stating his argument poorly, but I don't think so anymore.

Through multiple threads this fall Zombie has had plenty of opportunity to clear it up, but he hasn't--he consistently phrases it as "running is irrelevant" or some variation.

If he truly meant that the passing game is more important than the running game, then he could have said that. And he'd have encountered very little disagreement.

I've made it clear through my posts that I think the Packers should be primarily a passing team, and running enough to attract the D's attention (and distracts them from the passing game, improving your passing). When Zombie said above he disagrees with me, what he is saying is he disagrees with that philosophy.

So, I am led to believe that Zombie truly believes all you need to do is pass, pass, pass. If running is irrelevant, why would you ever run??? If it's not irrelevant, why would you keep saying it is?

Zero2Cool wrote:
A running game is needed, yes. As I've said countless times, I feel 10 carries for 30 yards is more efficient for the offense than 5 carries for 30 yards. My reasoning is that the more times you run, the more times the defense has to honor the run and it opens up play action passes.


Agreed on the running 10 times attracts the D's attention more than 5, but running 10 times for 60 attracts the D's attention more than running 10 times for 30. The more effective your running game the more you'll attract the D's attention and open up your passing game.
UserPostedImage
Offline zombieslayer  
#45 Posted : Tuesday, March 15, 2011 4:43:35 PM(UTC)
zombieslayer

Rank: Most Valuable Player

Joined: 8/7/2008(UTC)
Location: San Francisco

Applause Given: 778
Applause Received: 495

Originally Posted by: " Go to Quoted Post

And I'm perfectly fine with that, especially when it comes to Barry Sanders. I was just tying to tow the joking line, but guess I went to far.


Dude - I don't mind you joking with me. What I do mind is that you don't have any facts. Macbob slights me all the time but he's backing up what he's saying. Personally, I think Macbob's a utopian. The game has changed.

Originally Posted by: " Go to Quoted Post
Barry + average QB = passing game a lot better.
Nance + elite QB = doesn't improve passing game, might hurt because there's no chance for Nance.
Barry + elite QB = pure offensive domination.


OK, thank you. Now you're finally giving me something to argue with. This is what I want.

An elite RB like Barry Sanders will take passes away from the offense. He'll also take money away from the team. So thus, I'll take Nance + elite QB. All Nance really has to do is rush 15 times for 60 yards. That's it. The pass will give him those opportunities as the pass nowadays opens up the run, not the other way around. Yes, I saw Pack93z posted examples of the latter but those are exceptions, not the rule.

Macbob - Maybe I'm not stating my point very well. Rushing success is irrelevant. It doesn't matter if you're the #1 rushing team or the #20. Your chances of winning the SB are exactly the same. Yes, you still need to hand the ball off. But you don't need to be good. Is that more clear?

Also, I went as far as saying an elite RB actually hurts the team by taking too many passes away from the offense. Also, he ends up asking for too much money where you're better off spending that money on a LB, DL, or DB.
My man Donald Driver
UserPostedImage

(thanks to Pack93z for the pic)

2010 will be seen as the beginning of the new Packers dynasty. Ted Thompson Mike McCarthy Aaron Rodgers
Rss Feed 
Users browsing this topic
Guest (2)
5 Pages<12345>
Forum Jump  
You cannot post new topics in this forum.
You cannot reply to topics in this forum.
You cannot delete your posts in this forum.
You cannot edit your posts in this forum.
You cannot create polls in this forum.
You cannot vote in polls in this forum.

Notification

Icon
Error

Recent Topics
1m / Green Bay Packers Talk / yooperfan

4m / Random Babble / Cheesey

18m / Random Babble / Zero2Cool

3h / Green Bay Packers Talk / steveishere

5h / Around The NFL / sschind

5h / Green Bay Packers Talk / Mucky Tundra

5h / Around The NFL / sschind

5h / Green Bay Packers Talk / Mucky Tundra

5h / Green Bay Packers Talk / QCHuskerFan

5h / Green Bay Packers Talk / sschind

6h / Green Bay Packers Talk / musccy

19h / Green Bay Packers Talk / nerdmann

21h / Green Bay Packers Talk / steveishere

28-Aug / Random Babble / Wade

28-Aug / Random Babble / Zero2Cool


Tweeter

Copyright © 2006-2014 PackersHome.com™. All Rights Reserved.