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Offline Pack93z  
#166 Posted : Sunday, July 18, 2010 3:52:24 PM(UTC)
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Well lets look at our society..

We have a police officer in ILL that apparently killed a couple of his wives..

So should all police activity be ceased.

We shouldn't have police.. we are a free society and shouldn't need an authority figure such as that to dictate the rules upon us right?

We have priests all over the place, latest in La Crosse getting busted for molestation or child porn..

So all religion should become suspect because we have a few deviants amongst the cloth.

Why should we as a society look up to any man in the cloth as they are grouped together with this scum, right?

Of course not.. one bad apple or incident does not make a mass.

Like it or not.. even a free society as ourselves has rules for the safety of all.. screening pre-flight is one of them. Not protected as a right. Travel is your right.. and no one is prohibiting your right to travel.. they are placing measures to protect the system.. right or wrong measures is up for debate..

But since NonStop hide behind a "I don't have to because I am right" cop out... I shall conclude that their isn't a better method to be had. :)

I was going to use politicians as an example.. but I am not sure that I could make a case for the rightful ones. ;)
I think when there's enough will and aggression, there's no shortage of talent either.

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Offline zombieslayer  
#167 Posted : Sunday, July 18, 2010 4:32:24 PM(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: " Go to Quoted Post
In some email I have a picture of a TSA employee playing Solitaire while there's a nice line waiting.


I don't see how that fits in though as every job has douche bag employees. You can't even trust your priest nowadays so I'm not sure why a government employee's work ethic is a surprise or note worthy.


Our hard-earned tax dollars don't go to Priests. They do however go to TSA employees. So the former doesn't piss me off as much.

The link Wade posted, I wonder if TSA employees jerk off to those images. Won't be surprised if they do. How does that make you feel? Our tax dollars at work.

Pack - Who does he complain to? If he complained, he's an ex-con. They'll be sure to bring that up.

Like I said, screw the TSA. Waste of tax money.

NSD & Wade are right. The burden of proof when it comes to limiting our Freedom and Privacy goes to King, not his subjects. I don't see why that's so hard to understand.

The TSA hasn't made us safer. They've only made flights longer and taken more of our Freedoms and Privacy.
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2010 will be seen as the beginning of the new Packers dynasty. Ted Thompson Mike McCarthy Aaron Rodgers
Offline Wade  
#168 Posted : Sunday, July 18, 2010 5:12:11 PM(UTC)
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I've gone back and highlighted one phrase that I found particularly troubling, though perhaps you missed it.

"Months of joking" suggests this is not just one person with a problem. This suggests to me a cohort of people who are paying excessive attention to something other than what we think they are paying attention to.

If there is a right that defines "human right" it ought to be control over one's body. Suppose I decide that I want to go through the airport and fly nude. Can I show off my body, smaller-than-peter-north-dick, jiggling beer gut and all, without social or legal consequence? No. But some f*cking anonymous TSA can look at it without my permission in the name of national security?

I'm not advocating going nude thru airports. But the decision as to who one exposes oneself to should not depend on whether the average TSA person who might see me is a good person or a pervert. It should depend on whether I'm willing to expose myself to that person; only if I as an individual am perceived as a threat, should it be the state's decision.

The use of these scanners is presuming that everyone who flies is a threat. If that's not an unreasonable criterion for search and seizure, what the f*ck is?
And do not be conformed to this world, but be transformed by the renewing of your mind, that you may prove what is that good and acceptable and perfect will of God.
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Offline Dulak  
#169 Posted : Sunday, July 18, 2010 5:15:35 PM(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: " Go to Quoted Post
Flight 93 "evidence"... make your own call..

http://whatreallyhappene...wn.html?q=shootdown.html


interesting - funny they made 2 great movies based on this plane. eg the documentary was much better then the movie

I wonder if its like the tillman thing (which I dont know much about but they are coming out with a movie about it).
Offline Zero2Cool  
#170 Posted : Sunday, July 18, 2010 5:29:55 PM(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: " Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: " Go to Quoted Post
In some email I have a picture of a TSA employee playing Solitaire while there's a nice line waiting.


I don't see how that fits in though as every job has douche bag employees. You can't even trust your priest nowadays so I'm not sure why a government employee's work ethic is a surprise or note worthy.


Our hard-earned tax dollars don't go to Priests. They do however go to TSA employees. So the former doesn't piss me off as much.

The link Wade posted, I wonder if TSA employees jerk off to those images. Won't be surprised if they do. How does that make you feel? Our tax dollars at work.


I'm not going to piss and whine about everything false the government does with our hard earn money. It's a waste of time. It's no secret we as a nation are getting screwed. We know it, yet what are we doing about it? What CAN we do about it? Get angry and upset over it? Sorry, not worth my time, I have more important things to focus my energy on.

Nice way to dodge the point I'm hitting on with your priests don't get tax dollars. :) It doesn't matter the job, the statue of the position, fact is, you're going to have douche bags being employed. It's the sad truth about human nature, until we enforce a more strict law that punishes them. Although then we'll have people bitch about the laws against that too.
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Offline Pack93z  
#171 Posted : Sunday, July 18, 2010 6:11:22 PM(UTC)
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Doesn't the church hiding behind the tax exempt status cost the rest of the America cash? Isn't that just another drain on bottom line of America?

Has there been a hi-jacking since they put in the TSA and the enhanced screening process.. doesn't that scream of this proof that you desire?

Has there been another 9/11?
I think when there's enough will and aggression, there's no shortage of talent either.

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Offline Pack93z  
#172 Posted : Sunday, July 18, 2010 6:14:03 PM(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: " Go to Quoted Post


Pack - Who does he complain to? If he complained, he's an ex-con. They'll be sure to bring that up.


Last time I checked, violation of that policy is not dependent upon your record. You damn straight I would push that issue.. a male TSA agent had no business placing his hands on a teen-aged girl.

Bet your ass I would be drawing a formal complaint with the TSA themselves.
I think when there's enough will and aggression, there's no shortage of talent either.

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Offline Cheesey  
#173 Posted : Sunday, July 18, 2010 9:19:23 PM(UTC)
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Yes, churches are tax exempt. You also need to check all the other tax exempt things. There are plenty of "non profit" organization out there. Many that abuse it.
Some so called "churches" do too.
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Offline 68md  
#174 Posted : Monday, July 19, 2010 1:53:16 AM(UTC)
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In this discussion late so pardon me, going back to this country and all the going down hill talk. I think that's a subject that could go round and round but I can tell all of you that I am 42 and have buried 3 close friend in 5 years who where all serving there country and died so each of you could post freely on this message board.
We just hit 3 years for one of my very best friends, here is his story:Patrick Wade

He did not have to go back but could have stayed state side,volunteered for the duty that killed him. He wanted to serve his country since 2nd grade.
Yeah folks we got our issues but as long as men are coming home in wooden boxes with flags over them I think we put that aside and support them and our country 100%.
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Offline Rockmolder  
#175 Posted : Monday, July 19, 2010 2:28:24 AM(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: " Go to Quoted Post
Yes, churches are tax exempt. You also need to check all the other tax exempt things. There are plenty of "non profit" organization out there. Many that abuse it.
Some so called "churches" do too.


As long as churches from all religions fall under that, it doesn't seem like that big a problem to me.

I mean, I don't know if any place of worship should get subsidized, but as long as it's not only the christian version getting money, at least you won't fall into this big seperation of church and state hole again.
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Offline Cheesey  
#176 Posted : Monday, July 19, 2010 2:36:36 AM(UTC)
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I have nothing but respect for those that have and are serving our country in the military.
I NEVER take them for granted. THEY are the reason we have the amount of freedom and free speach we have today. All gave some, some gave all.

Now....as far as people holding men of "the cloth" on a pedastal. That's a MAJOR problem in ALL religions. Too many people put ministers, priests, pastors, whatever you call them, up on a different level then the "common" man. And that causes many problems. ALL ministers are nothing more then HUMAN. Capable of all the sins that all 0f us commit. God tells us NOT to do that, that if we do, we WILL be let down. But too many put their "faith" in religious leaders. And when these leaders fall, it often takes down the "faith" of the church people. Any time a religious leader tells you to do something that you know is wrong, against God's laws, you need to do what GOD wants, not what MAN wants.
And the thing is......anyone that IS in a leadership role in a "church" will be held responsible for any people that he is in charge of that fall because of his actions if he sins. That is a big responsibility. If you take it on, you better be sure that you are strong. Because you WILL be a center of attack by Satan.
(That ends today's sermon........LOL!)
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Offline zombieslayer  
#177 Posted : Tuesday, July 20, 2010 3:08:08 AM(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: " Go to Quoted Post
I've gone back and highlighted one phrase that I found particularly troubling, though perhaps you missed it.

"Months of joking" suggests this is not just one person with a problem. This suggests to me a cohort of people who are paying excessive attention to something other than what we think they are paying attention to.

If there is a right that defines "human right" it ought to be control over one's body. Suppose I decide that I want to go through the airport and fly nude. Can I show off my body, smaller-than-peter-north-dick, jiggling beer gut and all, without social or legal consequence? No. But some f*cking anonymous TSA can look at it without my permission in the name of national security?

I'm not advocating going nude thru airports. But the decision as to who one exposes oneself to should not depend on whether the average TSA person who might see me is a good person or a pervert. It should depend on whether I'm willing to expose myself to that person; only if I as an individual am perceived as a threat, should it be the state's decision.

The use of these scanners is presuming that everyone who flies is a threat. If that's not an unreasonable criterion for search and seizure, what the f*ck is?


Yet another good point.

I chose who gets to see me nekkid. Not the government. For the record, there's only a handful of people that fit into that category and I know them all very well and have seen them nekkid as well, except for my doctor who I trust.

And yes, travel is a Right, not a privilege.

Pack - Let's not forget that someone tried to hijack a plane not too long ago and the PASSENGERS, yes, those everyday people like you and me, held him down.

f*ck the TSA. I want my money back. They can't do anything right and I've always thought the DMV had the biggest retards in government until I dealt with the TSA. The TSA make the DMV look like Mensa members.

One of the biggest problems in society today is that people depend on the government to do things they SHOULD be doing themselves. Of anyone, I thought you'd see that, Pack.

And apologies in advance for not being polite about this topic. Believe me, I got utmost respect for you. Your knowledge of football does circles around mine and you know a lot of other life things way better than I do. You're more a fighter than I could ever be.

However, you're very much wrong on this issue. My distrust of authority came from reading one too many history books. The more power you give 'em, the scarier the story gets.
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Offline Zero2Cool  
#178 Posted : Tuesday, July 20, 2010 3:50:33 AM(UTC)
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You won't get your money back. The government will use it else where. Like, $10,000 for a hammer or maybe $42,000 for a toilet.


Quote:
One of the biggest problems in society today is that people depend on the government to do things they SHOULD be doing themselves. Of anyone, I thought you'd see that, Pack.


That's something I've said for a long time. Too many people whine about what the President isn't doing and right away say the President is awful because he's not flipping a magic switch to fix the economy ... or things of that nature. It's fix this for me, fix this, do that, etc ...

It's a right to move about the country, however the methods of which that is carried out I do not think are rights.
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Offline Pack93z  
#179 Posted : Tuesday, July 20, 2010 1:58:58 PM(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: " Go to Quoted Post


One of the biggest problems in society today is that people depend on the government to do things they SHOULD be doing themselves. Of anyone, I thought you'd see that, Pack.

And apologies in advance for not being polite about this topic. Believe me, I got utmost respect for you. Your knowledge of football does circles around mine and you know a lot of other life things way better than I do. You're more a fighter than I could ever be.

However, you're very much wrong on this issue. My distrust of authority came from reading one too many history books. The more power you give 'em, the scarier the story gets.


No worries about tone... just a discussion.

But let me clarify my stance.. because I think it is getting lost in this debate.

Would I rather, me one that has no choice but to go into a special room and go through extra measures at check in, not deal with the TSA.. heck yes without a doubt.

Would I rather have the freedom of not worrying about all items being under 3 oz's or have my toolkit for my leg which is like a pocket knife for me with me in the airport in case something happens... heck yes.

Would I rather feel completely comfortable with taking my kids through an airport without them asking 1000 questions about the security process and why.. no doubt about it. There is a reason, beyond cost, that I drive instead of fly with the family... not to subject them to the extra wait or hassle of getting three kids through security.

Would I rather the world be a place where things like this were an afterthought.. heck yes.

Would I rather trust others to police themselves and trust their intentions.. absolutely. There is a reason I choose to live in an area where I make probably a 1/3 to 1/2 what I could elsewhere.. because I have more trust in the people here than anywhere else I have traveled..

But I walk into an airport and I realize that this mode of travel is so removed of anything that the constitution dreamed of, people "free" to travel anywhere they want, from anywhere, basically unrestrained, and I realize that some precautions need to be taken..

Saying that, I haven't seen a better idea on how to keep the travel safe.

An aircraft is one of the most delicate modes of transportation, and with the economy crunch I am not completely sold that the companies are keeping the aircraft as maintained as they should be.. stretching the limits of parts for budgetary reasons. Then add that fact that all a person really needs to do to severely jeopardize the flight is cause a breach in the cabin.. granted they won't be able to use it as was in 9/11.. but they still can cause what they want.. destruction and fear.

I see the amount of nut jobs in this world, people that either are so far gone that rational thought escapes them or they just have twisted intentions. This isn't the American society of 20 years ago.. heck it isn't the same as 10 years ago... I don't like it, I would rather go back, but reality is this is the society we live in.

Combine those ingredients and you have a recipe for high risk.. one in which I don't feel comfortable with going back to the minimal security we used to have.

And I really am not worried about foreign terrorists.. they are very isolated.. I am more concerned with the nut jobs from within. Those looking for their 15 minutes of fame or attention.
I think when there's enough will and aggression, there's no shortage of talent either.

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Offline Cheesey  
#180 Posted : Tuesday, July 20, 2010 2:23:04 PM(UTC)
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One of the sad things is, I, as a person, can only do so much. I think that is one major reason why people look up to our political leaders to get things done. THEY are the ones in a position to actually do something about major issues.
Of course that's one of the big problems with politics today. Politicians say what they think the people want to hear, they get elected, then do nothing.
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