Zero2Cool
14 years ago
Woodson has given up big plays and TD's too, should we start a 'cut him' rant on him as well?
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TheEngineer
14 years ago
No, because clearly Woodson has displayed his big playmaking ability. It's a ridiculous argument to make, Zero.
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IronMan
14 years ago

It's a ridiculous argument to make, Zero.

"TheEngineer" wrote:

all_about_da_packers
14 years ago

It's a ridiculous argument to make, Zero.

"TheEngineer" wrote:



You're missing the forest for the trees.


Zero's point is simple: giving up a big play or a TD in a game is not unusual for DBs. It is also not the sole indicator of whether or not a player had a bad game or not.
The NFL: Where Greg Jennings Happens.
TheEngineer
14 years ago
No, it's not the sole reason, of course. On the overall, I find Jarrett Bush's play to negatively impact the Packers. Maybe not in Seattle. But over the course of the season and over his career, as a CB, Jarrett Bush has been more liability than reliability.

Very few CBs are able to hold every WR in check. Other than Asomugha, and maybe Mike McKenzie on the Saints a few years ago, I don't recall many CBs who can actually hold their own against WRs for a majority of the time and limit the amount of catches. But CBs can cover reasonably well, make the tackles, interceptions, what have you. Positive plays. Jarrett Bush has shown far less of that than what I would deem to be a good performance.

As you say, Bush isn't even limited by his physical skill set but his mental aptitude. If he had tried hard, but was just too slow or weak, I could understand. But he makes boneheaded plays, going out of position himself. Should I excuse that? I am, as yet (not saying never here!) unconvinced that Bush is CB quality.
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all_about_da_packers
14 years ago

As you say, Bush isn't even limited by his physical skill set but his mental aptitude. If he had tried hard, but was just too slow or weak, I could understand. But he makes boneheaded plays, going out of position himself. Should I excuse that? I am, as yet (not saying never here!) unconvinced that Bush is CB quality.

"TheEngineer" wrote:




That's fine, I think it's wrong to be convinced that Bush has turned the corner after just 1 solid game. I still say it was solid because it marked progress. Bush had good technique for the most part, and was more consistent in his play than the week before especially.


Here's my thing with Bush: on the 53 man roster at the start of the season, where would you place Bush in terms of play? Going into the season, he was a ST player who provided some versatility by playing both CB and S. To rank him as anything above the 40th player in terms of value to this team is pushing it. That is to say, maybe on his best day Bush would be the40th best player on this team. And I'm being pretty generous, I think.

Which leads me to my point: what can you reasonably expect from a player that is ranked somwhere in the 40s in terms of value? Woodons, Rodgers, Driver, etc... these guys are in the top 10 - elite players. Tramon Williams, Hawk, etc. can be classified in the 10-20 range. You expect them to be good. Bush? You don't really expect him to get extended time at CB, barring a disaster. Well, we lost Harris / Blackmon / Lee. Bush is doing relatively well - key word being relatively given where his place on the 53 man roster - in the bottom third.
The NFL: Where Greg Jennings Happens.
Zero2Cool
14 years ago

No, because clearly Woodson has displayed his big playmaking ability. It's a ridiculous argument to make, Zero.

"TheEngineer" wrote:



Is it really ridiculous or are you just failing to comprehend the nature of the point?


I really don't understand how some can be so freaking naive to thinking in depth about certain things.


First, Jarrett Bush shouldn't ever be on the field when a QB is also on the field.
Second, every DB gives up big plays and TD's.
Third, when you're not on the field all of the time, its not as easy to come in and be dominate.
Fourth, Jarrett Bush should never be on the field when a QB is on the same field.
Fifth, read one and four again and repeat.



My point is this (since I failed at making it fucking obvious) Jarrett Bush does not belong on the field at all. It's not because he gave up a 30 yard pass or even a TD, the man SIMPLEY CAN NOT PLAY! That is why he shouldn't be on the field. If we sat every DB who gave up said plays, we'd be fielding a DB-less team. THAT IS MY POINT!

Again, JARRETT BUSH SHOULDN'T BE ON THE FIELD BECAUSE HE DOESN'T HAVE THE TOOLS TO BE A DB IN THE NFL!





Now don't ever make it look like I'm defending Bush again! SILENCE .......... I KILL YOU!!

/exhale ..............................
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Zero2Cool
14 years ago

It's a ridiculous argument to make, Zero.

"all_about_da_packers" wrote:



You're missing the forest for the trees.


Zero's point is simple: giving up a big play or a TD in a game is not unusual for DBs. It is also not the sole indicator of whether or not a player had a bad game or not.

"TheEngineer" wrote:

OMG thank you! I love you!

I didn't think it was too hard to grasp what I was saying, lol.
UserPostedImage
TheEngineer
14 years ago
Perhaps you'll forgive me for not taking the time to have read all of the threads on Jarrett Bush and categorised your previous thoughts on Bush's ability (or lack thereof), but I was taking your statements in this thread at face value and giving my opinions.

In any case, How does one judge whether a CB 'has the tools' to be an NFL starter/backup, if not for his performance on the field? The only thing consistent that Bush has demonstrated, from what I gather, is his ability to give up the big play. Perhaps it's selective memory, but I don't think it's wholly unwarranted. I actually think Bush can be salvagable, but he needs to improve, and soon.
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Zero2Cool
14 years ago

Perhaps you'll forgive me for not taking the time to have read all of the threads on Jarrett Bush and categorised your previous thoughts on Bush's ability (or lack thereof), but I was taking your statements in this thread at face value and giving my opinions.

"TheEngineer" wrote:



Of course I'll forgive you. I'm the king of bonehead comments. 🙂

But, you don't have to read every thread on Bush to grasp the point I was making. It was pretty obvious.

Sorry for being touchy, I just don't like any inclination being thrown about as if I'm defending Jarrett Bush. Who I don't think should be on the field ever when a QB is also on the field.
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Zero2Cool (20m) : Former #Packers TE Josiah Deguara is signing a 1-year deal with the Jaguars, per source.
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dfosterf (11h) : For the record, I enjoy Beast and Mucky drafts
Zero2Cool (18h) : Haha
Mucky Tundra (19h) : No time for talking! Back to work beast!
beast (20h) : You saw only 4,201 of my mocks? 🥺 I think that means you missed more than half of them 😢
dfosterf (23h) : Does anyone know what Lambeau field improvements got put on hold? My guess would be for the 2025 draft
Zero2Cool (27-Mar) : It's like listen, you made 4,201 mocks, no shit.
Zero2Cool (27-Mar) : Cuz during the draft "I had them mocked there!" as if it's amazing.
Zero2Cool (27-Mar) : They're fun to do once in awhile. It's people who think they are "content" that annoy me.
dfosterf (27-Mar) : Against tbd
dfosterf (27-Mar) : Answer to your question is yes, it's a Thursday, will be the Chiefs aga
dfosterf (27-Mar) : Luckily for all concerned, I don't post them. I did one, but that was like 25 mocks ago
Zero2Cool (27-Mar) : NFL 2024 gonna start Sept 5th isn't it???
Zero2Cool (27-Mar) : Ugh... kids these days!
dfosterf (27-Mar) : I'm gonna go do some more mock draft hell instead 🤪
Zero2Cool (27-Mar) : Did we do one of those prediction threads yet for 2024 season?
dfosterf (27-Mar) : In my city, they are playing the nimby game, in order to keep some railroad tracks vs. 2 professional sports teams and a concert venue.
dfosterf (27-Mar) : And/Or a city council, of which I haven't seen a good one in a very long time
dfosterf (27-Mar) : That sounds like a Mayor, not a city.
buckeyepackfan (26-Mar) : Packers halt scheduled 80mil upgrade of stadium until lease agreement talks are restarted
Zero2Cool (26-Mar) : City of Green Bay puts Packers' Lambeau Field lease talks on hold
buckeyepackfan (26-Mar) : Packers 1 of 3 teams to vote no on new kickoff rule.
Zero2Cool (26-Mar) : Packers sign another Kicker
dfosterf (26-Mar) : Lengthy explanation at PFF if you click the link
dfosterf (26-Mar) : Kickoff rules officially changed.ngthy explan
Zero2Cool (26-Mar) : lol
Cheesey (26-Mar) : 2009? No thanks! One open heart surgery is enough!
dfosterf (26-Mar) : Good for you!
Zero2Cool (26-Mar) : Yes. That's the one.
dfosterf (26-Mar) : Is that "Lady Dugan" per chance?
dfosterf (26-Mar) : Crystal?
dfosterf (26-Mar) : Please refresh my memory
Zero2Cool (26-Mar) : Alan posts. Crystal back in my life. It's 2009 all over again! Lol
Mucky Tundra (26-Mar) : BAH GAWD! THAT'S CHEESEYS MUSIC!
Zero2Cool (25-Mar) : Gutekunst said early stages of Jordan Love contract being discussed.
Zero2Cool (25-Mar) : Shouldn't be penalized cuz official screwed up
Zero2Cool (25-Mar) : Yeah, challenge until you are incorrect twice.
Zero2Cool (25-Mar) : Fining them is the goal, per the people who made the rule anyway.
dfosterf (25-Mar) : Still waiting on the kickoff rule changes. Did hear yesterday that the touchback proposal will now be the 30 yard line, not the 35
dfosterf (25-Mar) : Probably speed of game issues with your proposal
dfosterf (25-Mar) : Hopefully the refs don't get in the habit of throwing flags on this
beast (25-Mar) : I think when it comes to Challenges should get two strikes, so unlimited challenges as long as they keep winning them, but 2 wrong then done
dfosterf (25-Mar) : Still subject to the fines etc
dfosterf (25-Mar) : Yes, I should have been more specific. Also, they are now saying it would be a 15 yard penalty. That makes more sense .
beast (25-Mar) : Simply fined in the week to follow
beast (25-Mar) : I agree with one NFL official, it'll probably be like some of the helmets hits, not really called by the refs on the field but simply fined
Zero2Cool (25-Mar) : Hip drop is not. Super confusing. Referees job is harder
Zero2Cool (25-Mar) : Swivel hip drop is banned
dfosterf (25-Mar) : The hip drop enforcement will be in the form of fines, etc. Not flags
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